only men are addresses
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I am only trying to emphasize that one word should not be taken out of the whole statement, dissected without taking into consideration the whole statement of Quran. In the verse the word "An nisa" is only for wives not for women.
Does not mean the women of the world but is restricted to ?your wives?Here the touch has been clarified with naked words of "intercourse-physical enterence", if it has taken place then the daughter of this wife from her earlier husband becomes the dauther because of the emergence of relationship of "" but if this relationship has not been developed daughter from earlier husband will be permissible for Nikah if this wife was divorced.
But for the son of this man, this particular woman who had been taken into the fold of Nikah and divorced whether after developing intercourse relationship or without that shall be inadmissible for Nikah in terms of 422.
Peace
Most probably you are referring to this aya
2236You say
Here the touch has been clarified with naked words of "intercourse-physical enterence",
Would you please clarify that "naked" word ?
Are you referring to "tamassoohunna" or some other word ? -
The point was perhaps clear
".....if it has taken place then the daughter of this wife from her earlier husband becomes the dauther because of the emergence of relationship of "" but if this relationship has not been developed daughter from earlier husband will be permissible for Nikah if this wife was divorced".
Please read alongwith 423 -
The point was perhaps clear
".....if it has taken place then the daughter of this wife from her earlier husband becomes the dauther because of the emergence of relationship of "" but if this relationship has not been developed daughter from earlier husband will be permissible for Nikah if this wife was divorced".
Please read alongwith 423Dear
Again you have circumvented the question .
Which word is "nakedly" expressing "intercourse ,enterance"?
"Maaroon ghutnaa ,phootay aankh"
I think you understand it.
Best of luck -
Here the touch has been clarified with naked words of "intercourse-physical enterence", if it has taken place then the daughter of this wife from her earlier husband becomes the dauther because of the emergence of relationship of "" but if this relationship has not been developed daughter from earlier husband will be permissible for Nikah if this wife was divorced.
But for the son of this man, this particular woman who had been taken into the fold of Nikah and divorced whether after developing intercourse relationship or without that shall be inadmissible for Nikah in terms of 422.
No problem brother , i shall continue to make efforts till you comprehend.
2-236 You commit no error by divorcing the women before touching them, or before setting the dowry for them. In this case, you shall compensate them - the rich as he can afford and the poor as he can afford - an equitable compensation. This is a duty upon the righteous
2-237And if you divorce them before you have touched them and you have appointed for them a portion, then (pay to them) ha!f of what you have appointed, unless they relinquish or he should relinquish in whose hand is the marriage tie; and it is nearer to righteousness that you should relinquish; and do not neglect the giving of free gifts between you; surely Allah sees what you do.
In the above ayas there is no blame , if one divorces a woman before sexually touching her and no ujoors have to be paid, but if one had promised/set an ujur, then god recommends that you should still pay her half.
Very logical , isn't it? If you see here the line is set as lamstamum, not dakhal. God commands that if you have been intimate with a woman and have sexually explored her body , that is enough, it does not matter weather you have performed the intercourse , or not . Now if you want to divorce her without a proper reason , it is not appropriate, because you have intruded in her privacy , where as if you have not been sexually intimate with her, there is no blame on you nor, you are required to pay her ujur. but if the ujur was set, then you must pay her half the amount , unless she forfeits her right.
See , if the line was set as intercourse(Dakhal) like in 4-23 for a step daughter , then one could sexually enjoy with a woman , but not do the intercourse and walk out free and without blame. It would have been a terrible abuse of an innocent woman and her body.
I am only trying to emphasize that one word should not be taken out of the whole statement, dissected without taking into consideration the whole statement of Quran. In the verse the word "An nisa" is only for wives not for women.
Does not mean the women of the world but is restricted to wivesivestalaqtum un nissa , ?
why has the word nissa been used , why not Zoj? i have my own reasons ,
I seriously consider that Nikah is one kind of a liason between a man and a woman, and there are more , (discussion on them is beyound the scope of this thread, inshallah we shall discuss them some times later). Talaqtum , is a term which covers termination of all such bonds with women, which necessarily may not be the Nikahed ones only.
peace
siki
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Here the touch has been clarified with naked words of "intercourse-physical enterence", if it has taken place then the daughter of this wife from her earlier husband becomes the dauther because of the emergence of relationship of "" but if this relationship has not been developed daughter from earlier husband will be permissible for Nikah if this wife was divorced.
But for the son of this man, this particular woman who had been taken into the fold of Nikah and divorced whether after developing intercourse relationship or without that shall be inadmissible for Nikah in terms of 422.
Quran is very precise and deliberate in usage of words, and Devinne wisdom is matchless.
4-22. Do not marry (tankahoo)the women who were previously married (nakhoo)to your fathers - existing marriages are exempted and shall not be broken - for it is a gross offense, and an abominable act.
4-23 Hurramat ,,,,,,and your stepdaughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you , ,,,,,
In the first one the line is set as nikah, if a woman was ever in a bond known as nikah with your father , then you are not suppose to marry her. Here the line has been drawn at Neither Dakhal, Nor lamstamum , but at nikah
logically speaking one could not find out that weather his father performed intercourse, or had sexually touched her , The only assured parameter is nikah. Moreover if a woman has been made one's step mother by relation , Her Hurmat has been established for ever.
And another important reason for not setting the line at dakhal or lamstamum is, That one can not be assured to find and filter out the women , who have been sexually enjoyed or Dakhooled by one's father, where as Nikahed are.
On the contrary , lets us analyse the wisdom behind 4-23( the step daughter case)
A woman in niikahed and is brought home, let us say that she brings along "trouble" in the shape of a beautiful young daughter, Here God sets the line to the last limit, which is Dakhal, and gives you the chance to reconsider your decision, does not matter that you have nikahed her or even sexually touched her.
This is an every day affair, plenty of such girls get abused by their step fathers. That is why God gives you every possible leverage , but wants to protect the young girl from abuse. And this girl becomes Haram for ever, so that the righteous do not ever think on such a line by terming it as an impossibility , and put aside their lust.
I am sorry for being explicit , but i guess, you asked for it.
peace
siki
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Dear Siki,
I did not ask for anything. Leoxyz wants answers in "yes" and "no" but not in graphics. I want to be somewhere in between these two extremes. I thought it is Allah to explain/bayana the verses of Quran therefore I quoted 423 that it is relevant to the relationship of marriage and the other of Nikah with whom fathers had nikah, divorce without having touched; since all are on the same subject. These explain each other and make things evident. In the presence of self explanatory verses perhaps there was little need for such an elaborate exercise that we have so far undertaken. Thanks.
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Dear Siki,
I did not ask for anything. Leoxyz wants answers in "yes" and "no" but not in graphics. I want to be somewhere in between these two extremes.
) Had you given the leoxyz the answer in yes or now , perhaps it would have saved me the trouble.
Dear Siki,
I thought it is Allah to explain/bayana the verses of Quran therefore I quoted 423 that it is relevant to the relationship of marriage and the other of Nikah with whom fathers had nikah, divorce without having touched; since all are on the same subject.
??? Brother i am not aware of such a commandment which i have highlighted in red above, can you elaborate?
Dear Siki,
These explain each other and make things evident. In the presence of self explanatory verses perhaps there was little need for such an elaborate exercise that we have so far undertaken. Thanks.
) If the the things were so self explanatory, how did/do you consider lamastamum un nissa , as intercourse(Dakhal) despite my all previous ,and present graphic descriptions.
siki
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Dear Siki,
Let us first agree or disagree that a baby/offspring is born, according to our perception, only when male sperm enters into the body of the wife/woman. Quran defines the meanings of its words and explains them. Please read these verses in one go
There is no harm/nothing wrong in it for you people if you divorce your wives with whom you have not yet developed matrimonial relation {not touched them} {Refer 2236}
And if you people divorce your wives before you have developed matrimonial relation {have touched them} {Refer 2237}
She said, ?O my Sustainer Lord! How can I have a son when no man has touched me? {345-47}
She said, ?How would I have a son when man has not touched me {since I am not married} and neither is I a debauch? {1920}
O you people who claim to have believed! When you have entered into bond of marriage with believing women but thereafter you divorced them before you had touched them there is no obligation upon you to count the period of restrain from second marriage. {Refer 3349}
?..
{Refer 423}
My intellect and wisdom ends here. This is all that I could say, my brother.
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Dear Siki,
Let us first agree or disagree that a baby/offspring is born, according to our perception, only when male sperm enters into the body of the wife/woman. Quran defines the meanings of its words and explains them. Please read these verses in one go
She said, how would I have a son when man has not touched me {since I am not married} and neither is I a debauch? {1920}
Mazhar salam
Brother ! if i correctly understand you , by above quotation you are implying that going by my argument , she should have said,
How would i have a son when no man has entered me"Now , let me ask you a question?
Does entry(dakhul) ensure a son?
and after entry would the ejaculation ensure a pregnancy?
I am sure your answer would be negative, now read the following statement,
The servant said ,' sir , how could i steal the watch from your room when i was out of town that day and did not even turn up for work?
your illogical arguments require explicit explanations , and then i get blamed for being too graphic.
I think the difference in ablution procedure for janaaba and , lamastammunissa was a sufficient evidence to prove my point , but i don't know , why are you insisting on proving a wrong argument.
peace
siki
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Dear Siki,
There is no harm/nothing wrong in it for you people if you divorce your wives with whom you have not yet developed matrimonial relation {not touched them} {Refer 2236}
And if you people divorce your wives before you have developed matrimonial relation {have touched them} {Refer 2237}
O you people who claim to have believed! When you have entered into bond of marriage with believing women but thereafter you divorced them before you had touched them there is no obligation upon you to count the period of restrain from second marriage. {Refer 3349}
Brother ! do you know the difference between Tamsso, and lamastamunissa, ?
OK , let me tell you ,
Tamassaoo is sexual enjoyment which may , or may not result into intercourse and ejaculation, where is lamastamunnissa is ,
sexual touchings only , not resulting into the intercourse/ejaculations , saving you the trouble of taking a bath in cold morning before Fajar.
(I sincerely hope that above is not too graphic by your standards)
siki
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?..
{Refer 423}
My intellect and wisdom ends here. This is all that I could say, my brother.
I have failed to grasp , as to what you want to convey by Quoting the above aya ,and in particular highlighting the " Dakhaltum bihinne" in red. could you kindly elobrate your argument?
siki
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In Muslim and Abu Dawood Saeed al khudri reported that a man itban asked O Allah,s Messenger if a man is interrupted during sexual intercourse so as to leave his wife before the ejaculation what he should do for ghusal, Prophet replied
The water is only required because of seminal fluid.
In other report by Ali the prophet said when you men ejaculate perform ghusal of janba when you do not ejaculate dont perform ghusalAs per my understandings ejaculation is the main cause of impurity not sex itself, thats why if men ejaculate in masterbation they must have to perform ghusal but in case of women there is no ejaculation and difference of opinion is amongst the scholars even ahnaf says on women ghusal is not obligatory if they masterbate because ejaculation doesnt happen at all, women anatomy is very different they get orgasm/climax even without fantacies or touch specially during ovulation time or after end of their periods so i will deduce from the aayah in Nissa that ghusal only fard on men during intercourse women only do after periods or nafas and ayah is only for men not for women, for male impurity is seminal fluid and for women impurity is blood of periods and nafas.