Focal Point
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salam
iv) i have been saying that he famous place in mecca is today widely believed to be al Masjd al Haram, and that it seems to have been known as such for some time in history. i do not know whether this belief goes back to the time of revelation of the Quran, or if this is a recent innovation. you are contending that the famous place in mecca only came to be perceived as la Masjid al Haram some time later than revelation, but you cannot give any reason when or why or how this came to be. hence, there IS some evidence (albeit miniscule) that the famous mosque in mecca is al Masjid al Haram.
bravo rotfl rotfl
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salam
what is more pertinent than where.
you will see al Masjid al Haram when you pass along it.
salam
That wasn't an answer, all it did was shift the burden of proof.
So, where is the Straight Path? Is it the line in yellow in the picture?
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That wasn't an answer, all it did was shift the burden of proof.
So, where is the Straight Path? Is it the line in yellow in the picture?
salam
i am sorry but i do not understand exactly what you are asking.
do you really think siratal mustaqim is a physical thing?
salam
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Peace All,
I would like to put forward some evidence that indicate that Jerusalem may be the pilgrimadge destination.
From http//archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=41
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http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=5204
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http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=8966
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http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=5196
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http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=3599
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http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=3608
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http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=3609
Others
http//www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/shift.htmlSalaam
Al
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Peace,
I doubt that there are some special ancient place to go to pilgrim to.
Why and what for?
I rather think that hajj=debate will take place during the sacred months every year within an islamic community.
So we have to create this islamic community before we can have any debates then I suppose .
Peace
Maria -
Peace,
I doubt that there are some special ancient place to go to pilgrim to.
Why and what for?
I rather think that hajj=debate will take place during the sacred months every year within an islamic community.
So we have to create this islamic community before we can have any debates then I suppose .
Peace
Mariasalam sister
i think there are a numer of other threads regarding Hajj; i would hope we can focus of the focal point in this one, otherwise the thread could lose momentum and become confusing
salam
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salam
i am sorry but i do not understand exactly what you are asking.
do you really think siratal mustaqim is a physical thing?
salam
Why not? "Kaaba" is, maqam ibrahim is, "masjid al-haram" is, "masjid al aqsa" is. So, you must take the straight path to get the the sacred mosque. Not a curved path.
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Why not? "Kaaba" is, maqam ibrahim is, "masjid al-haram" is, "masjid al aqsa" is. So, you must take the straight path to get the the sacred mosque. Not a curved path.
salam
no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.
salam
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peace,
this one was such an awesome discussion at one point, another verse to take into account
396
Khalifa
The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people.
Yusuf Ali
The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings
"Progressive Muslims"
The first Shrine established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat3_files/3_96.gif
Sorry ignoramus if i am steering this towards a wrong direction peace
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Peace,
Why does Qibla have to mean focal point ,convening point or direction of prayer ? None of these meanings have any support from the Quran.
It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?
qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
LL, V8, p 237, 238
EDIT
It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.
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Peace,
It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?
qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
LL, V8, p 237, 238
EDIT
It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.
Peace
1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.
When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.
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Peace
1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.
When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.
salam
can you suggest a better interpretation of 1087?
salam
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salam
no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.
salam
Please explain why you disagree.
We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly? -
Peace OPF,
LOL, well you can bring this up with sunnis, if they not agree with it then the whole theory from them are indeed wrong.
Maria
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Please explain why you disagree.
We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly?salam
perhaps in another thread, let us deal with the topic in hand in this one!
salam
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salam ignoramus
The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
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salam ignoramus
The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
salam
your translation does not quite make sense to me, could you please give a complete translation of the verse. also, there seems to be mention of blessings towards the end.
thank you.
salam
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salam ignoramus
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
Qibla = focal point
can be proved from following logic.
A person ,who was learning English was repeating the word "Hen" loudly like this .
"Hen means black ,hen means black ,hen means black."
Someone listened and said to him "hen does not mean "black" rather it means a domestic bird which lays eggs.You know what did that person replied?? "I see.Don't you know that hen is sometimes black ? Yes ,then ? If hen is black ,then hen means black.