A Problem of Translation of Quranic Aya for Quranists
-
You ask a question.
I reply.
You ask it again, then follow with another question.
Let us deal with one question at a time. What is your response to my answer?
It is question of meaning of "ila " no matter what is the extent of "elbow"
(hand)--------------->(elbow) A
(Hand) --------------(elbow)-> BWill "ila" refers to "A" upto elbow or
it refers to "B" including elbow.
No matter what thinks the extent of elbow. -
Let us check where the Quranists stand in Arabic language ,the language of the Quran.
223
Wa-in kuntum fee raybin mimma nazzalna AAala AAabdina fa/too bisooratin min mithlihi waodAAoo shuhadaakum min dooni Allahi in kuntum sadiqeena
223 And if you were in doubt/suspicion from what We descended on Our worshipper/slave , so come/bring with a chapter from its similar/equal/alike to it, and call your witnesses/testifiers from other than God, if you were truthful.Are you mocking God and Qur'an to prove itself?
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati...
56 You, you those who believed, if you started/got up to the prayers,...Does up to the prayers also include the prayers?
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/36/36_8.htm
Inna jaAAalna fee aAAnaqihim aghlalan fahiya ila al-athqani fahum muqmahoona
368 We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up (and they cannot see).Does yokes round their necks right up to their chins also include their chins?
-
Wa-in kuntum fee raybin mimma nazzalna AAala AAabdina fa/too bisooratin min mithlihi waodAAoo shuhadaakum min dooni Allahi in kuntum sadiqeena
223 And if you were in doubt/suspicion from what We descended on Our worshipper/slave , so come/bring with a chapter from its similar/equal/alike to it, and call your witnesses/testifiers from other than God, if you were truthful.Are you mocking God and Qur'an to prove itself?
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati...
56 You, you those who believed, if you started/got up to the prayers,...Does up to the prayers also include the prayers?
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/36/36_8.htm
Inna jaAAalna fee aAAnaqihim aghlalan fahiya ila al-athqani fahum muqmahoona
368 We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up (and they cannot see).Does yokes round their necks right up to their chins also include their chins?
Dear Brother
It means you want to say that "elbow" is not included in the act of this "ghusal" .Am I right to understand you?.If wrong please do correct me . -
Dear Brother
It means you want to say that "elbow" is not included in the act of this "ghusal" .Am I right to understand you?.If wrong please do correct me .el?bow (l'b'
n.
1.
a. The joint or bend of the arm between the forearm and the upper arm.http//www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/elbow_anatomy/elbow_anatomy_intro01.jpg
Therefore, wash up to ?the joint? or bend and don?t worry if short/over or if you miss a spot; they didn?t have sinks with running water 1400 years ago and people were lucky to bathe once a week and remember -- it's intent which counts.
Peace
-
Am I right in understanding this thread was made as satire?
It is very funny. Mashaallah.
-
"wash your hands to the elbows"
Someone wants to know if the elbows are included or not )Am I getting this right?
Am I right in understanding this thread was made as satire?
I certainly hope so, because if it's not, then I weep for the future of this "Umma" '(
Why don't you just play it safe and include the elbow?
Therefore, wash up to ?the joint? or bend and don?t worry if short/over or if you miss a spot; they didn?t have sinks with running water 1400 years ago and people were lucky to bathe once a week and remember -- it's intent which counts.
Very well spoken, Nun.
what is truly mind-boggling is the amount of information that you will see in an Islamic library about the 'science/knowledge of wudu (ablution)'. Volumes and volumes about the subject, and how the prophet and companions used to perform it. So many details that the poor faithful joe will be stricken down with a paranoya concerning his wudu and if it's right or wrong, and if he's doing it like the prophet did.
But I think the reality is simple. The level of cleanliness and hygene in our siciety today is easily 10 times better than it was back then. So who should be a model for whom?
What if I decide to wash my whole arm to the shoulder? Is my wudu considered void?
Am I destined for eternal damnation in the 666th layer of Hell? -
What if I decide to wash my whole arm to the shoulder? Is my wudu considered void?
Am I destined for eternal damnation in the 666th layer of Hell?Don't be silly. There are 7 layers of hell.
Satire it is.
-
Just for reference, I weep for the present, past and future.
-
el?bow (l'b'
n.
1.
a. The joint or bend of the arm between the forearm and the upper arm.http//www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/elbow_anatomy/elbow_anatomy_intro01.jpg
Therefore, wash up to ?the joint? or bend and don?t worry if short/over or if you miss a spot; they didn?t have sinks with running water 1400 years ago and people were lucky to bathe once a week and remember -- it's intent which counts.
Peace
Dear
What impression I take that you think that One may ghusal "elbows" or not" that does not make difference.It means Quran is not telling definitely whether to wash the elbows or not ?
Again am I right to understand you ? (Sorry for asking like this because of I lack knowledge and I feel difficulty in comprehending certain conceiled meanings) -
Dear
What impression I take that you think that One may ghusal "elbows" or not" that does not make difference.It means Quran is not telling definitely whether to wash the elbows or not ?
Again am I right to understand you ? (Sorry for asking like this because of I lack knowledge and I feel difficulty in comprehending certain conceiled meanings)368 We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up (and they cannot see)
Common sense 101 explained in detail
-
Take the metaphorical yoke/collar off your neck so you can see
-
Place collar around ?the joint? known as elbow ? view diagram
http//www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/elbow_anatomy/elbow_anatomy_intro01.jpg
Imagine the white cartilage part in picture (clearly visible on left) as the collar
-
Wash up to collar ?the joint? or elbow ? you may go beyond if you like
-
When done, take off imaginary collar and place back around neck up to chin
Further instructions will be provided upon written request.
Good luck!
Sincerely,
Bajram (aka Holiday) Hoxha or Eid Imam in Arabic
-
-
368 We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that their heads are forced up (and they cannot see)
Common sense 101 explained in detail
-
Take the metaphorical yoke/collar off your neck so you can see
-
Place collar around ?the joint? known as elbow ? view diagram
http//www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/elbow/elbow_anatomy/elbow_anatomy_intro01.jpg
Imagine the white cartilage part in picture (clearly visible on left) as the collar
-
Wash up to collar ?the joint? or elbow ? you may go beyond if you like
-
When done, take off imaginary collar and place back around neck up to chin
Further instructions will be provided upon written request.
Good luck!
Sincerely,
Bajram (aka Holiday) Hoxha or Eid Imam in Arabic
Dear
So you want to explain the Qurain on "may/may not" pattern.
Whichever word you like you can put in "metaphoric /allegorical " meaning.
2156
"ghusal" of the elbows is either necessary or not necessary.There is nothing in between."May/may not " is not applicable to Quran. -
-
Leoxyz, can you clarify whether you are joking or not, please.
Thanks.
-
What difference does it make if you wash it up to the elbow or up and including the elbow? If it was that important, it would have been put in a an explicit way and would have also been included in "tayam-mum".
"ilaa" could mean both, and is used in the quraan in both meanings.
-
What difference does it make if you wash it up to the elbow or up and including the elbow? If it was that important, it would have been put in a an explicit way and would have also been included in "tayam-mum".
"ilaa" could mean both, and is used in the quraan in both meanings.
What does it make difference to Allah if someone believes in Allah or not?
Question is that of meaning?
I do not know what is the opinion of the "Zamakhshari of the day"? -
What does it make difference to Allah if someone believes in Allah or not?
Exactly. So, what difference does it make for God or for us as to where to wash our arms?
Question is that of meaning?
Then question is that of what?
I do not know what is the opinion of the "Zamakhshari of the day"?
confused
Is his opinion important to you? What about your opinion? You don't seem to have any...but lots of questions...repeated and/or meaningless. giveup -
Peace,
"ghusal" of the elbows is either necessary or not necessary.There is nothing in between."May/may not " is not applicable to Quran.
Where did I write May/may not?
el?bow (l'b'
n.
1.
a. The joint or bend of the arm between the forearm and the upper arm.Therefore, wash up to ?the joint? or bend and don?t worry if short/over or if you miss a spot; they didn?t have sinks with running water 1400 years ago and people were lucky to bathe once a week and remember -- it's intent which counts.
http//www.eslkidstuff.com/images/elbow.gif
What does it make difference to Allah if someone believes in Allah or not?
Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous -- you are equating this with belief in God?
How does one eat watermelon then?
When exactly is dawn and sunset in Mecca?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.htmlWhat about in Antarctica?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/syowa--permanent-station-of-japan.htmlAgain -- it's INTENT which counts!
-
Peace,
Where did I write May/may not?
http//www.eslkidstuff.com/images/elbow.gif
Your posts are getting more and more ridiculous -- you are equating this with belief in God?
How does one eat watermelon then?
When exactly is dawn and sunset in Mecca?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.htmlWhat about in Antarctica?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/syowa--permanent-station-of-japan.htmlAgain -- it's INTENT which counts!
Whole Quran is equally Allah's order.Whether is one Aya or whole Quran ,its principles are the same.
If you can make the order of one aya "may/may not 'pattern then it does not make difference whether you apply to whole quran or not . -
I would like to remind everyone that in English, the word "until" signifies "optionally" where there is no distinct line, unless additional boundary conditions are imposed.
Of course, we could be sane and say "to the point of the elbow", but come on, I'd rather look back to the 7th century and find out how to eat watermelon.
-
Whole Quran is equally Allah's order.Whether is one Aya or whole Quran ,its principles are the same.
If you can make the order of one aya "may/may not 'pattern then it does not make difference whether you apply to whole quran or not .ARE YOU OK -- WHERE DID I SAY MAY/MAY NOT? Define "the elbow" exactly?
Mode operandi as usual -- care to answer these as well and define "the dawn" and "the sunset" exactly...
When exactly is dawn and sunset in Mecca?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/mecca.htmlWhat about in Antarctica?
http//www.gaisma.com/en/location/syowa--permanent-station-of-japan.htmlOf course, we could be sane and say "to the point of the elbow", but come on, I'd rather look back to the 7th century and find out how to eat watermelon.
Yeah OPF the best ?scholars? Ibn Hambal couldn?t figure out sunna of eating watermelon? ;D
http//www.answering-islam.de/Main/Books/Wollaston/Accounts/chapt6.htm
"So scrupulous was this theologian in his veneration for the Prophet of Arabia, that he would not eat watermelons because, although aware that the Master whom he adored, indulged in them, it was uncertain whether the founder of Islam peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or cut them!"