is following quran alone even quranic?
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Salaam Nurd,
Prove that the Qur'an was protected from other than what the Qur'an says.
Hussein
I'm afraid I dont understand the wording of the question. Could you clarify so that I know precisely that of which you are asking of me?
And at the same time realize that I do not know Arabic at all.. I have read many english translations and transliterations but I do understand that there is not a 11 ratio of Arabic to English, so you will have to forgive me in advance if I find what appears to be a proper answer but turns out to be poorly translated.
Thank you and Peace,
Nurd
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When you claim that the Qur'an was completely protected, you need to support it with evidence. This is so especially when you use that criterion to reject Hadeeth. So, the Question is
How did you prove that the Qur'an was protected? To prove this, you will need to bring evidence from outside of the Qur'an. Why? because it is the work in question.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
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When you claim that the Qur'an was completely protected, you need to support it with evidence. This is so especially when you use that criterion to reject Hadeeth. So, the Question is
How did you prove that the Qur'an was protected? To prove this, you will need to bring evidence from outside of the Qur'an. Why? because it is the work in question.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
Ahh I understand now.. and I believe, to a certain degree, that you misunderstood. My rejection of hadith is solely on the basis that each hadith should not be taken at face value as fact. The entire work of hadith should be used to give us an idea of how the people of the prophets time and possibly the prophet himself viewed both Islam and the message of the Quran. Amongst every peoples their words, their fables, their old wives tales taken as a whole show us a lot about the people of that era
In order to accept the Quran, I have to accept what the Quran says, I do not need a second book to tell me how to accept the words of the Quran.. The Quran itself tells me that it is protected. If you look back, historically, at the Qurans of older times, the message is the same. This combined with the wording in the Quran that it will be protected is proof enough for me. If the books of Hadith were to remain exactly the same for all time, it would still not be proof enough because they were not guaranteed the same protection.
Peace,
Nurd
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How did you prove that the Qur'an was protected? To prove this, you will need to bring evidence from outside of the Qur'an. Why? because it is the work in question.
It's not just the work in question but what is in the works. Nothing wrong with gang-rape and all right?
Al-quran goes through the same verification process. That's for each person to decide. You don't supplement Lord of the Rings with Star wars.
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Correct Dargento. The Qur'an proves itself as a book that is slef consistent. How do you prove that nothing was added to it or subtracted from it?
Nurd, we all need tools of one sort or another to help us understand something else, whether Qur'an or anything else.
Take care all
Hussein
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Correct Dargento. The Qur'an proves itself as a book that is slef consistent. How do you prove that nothing was added to it or subtracted from it?
Nurd, we all need tools of one sort or another to help us understand something else, whether Qur'an or anything else.
Take care all
Hussein
Is it needed to "prove nothing was added to it or subtracted from it"? Such thinking gives precedence to people such as Rashad Khalifa. It is very silly to believe that the word of an omnipotent God could be modified. If the Quran was modified, what would stop God from sending the message down again, as per Torah and others?
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Yes it is. You do not want to miss anything or do something that was not in the book. It is also part of the self preservation of the book. You do not need to have a Rashad Khalifa system. But you need to have some sort of coherent system. If you make an argument on 100% authenticity, then you should not leave any holes in it. If it is otherwise as we Sunnis do, then that is a different formula. Our formula is in safety and trust and not the mathematics or 100% business that you guys claim but can never prove.
Hussein
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Correct Dargento. The Qur'an proves itself as a book that is slef consistent. How do you prove that nothing was added to it or subtracted from it?
Nurd, we all need tools of one sort or another to help us understand something else, whether Qur'an or anything else.
Take care all
Hussein
I agree completely. The books of hadith as well as the system of attributing different passages of the Quran to what was happening historically in the life of the prophet (forgive me for not remembering what it is called) are both great ways to help understand parts of the Quran. But those other sources must be read and studied with the knowledge that they are not protected works, they could be wrong, just as any later interpretation of the Quran can be wrong.
My favorites are both the (translated)"Tafsir Ibn Kathir" and the "Quran as it explains itself", seeing the same work from both sides can really help ones understanding.
I can appreciate that the knowledge that I receive from each can help me get closer to Allah's word without dedicating myself to proving that one is right over the other.
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Interesting article, haven't read it all, but hopes it helps the conversation with you guys
http//www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm
Modify (Added link) http//www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhabstlk.htm
Salam