Tell the truth.
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See you have the wrong idea here that you have to believe in a man-made religion called islam to be muslim.
Did you see this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15111.0
Also 4143
Pardon me for interfering here but I don't believe that was directed at you. She was speaking generally.
Who said you've done evil? or that you are going to hell?
I don't btw. That's not for me to decide at any rate. I think It's pretty arrogant to say that someone is going to hell (aside from the obvious evil doers) Because you know what? maybe I am going to hell. To keep yourself in line we must ask yourselves that question What if I am wrong?
peace
Fair enough DArgento )
Peace my friend peace
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peace cosmicdancer,
In answer to your question, no, I don't think religion is nonsense.
You do seem to contradict yourself when you say
I have said I believe in God from the start.
I just don't believe in the concept of God described in the Qur'an.
I have been quite consistent in this.
And then you say
I am Agnostic.
I niether deny nor confirm the existence of God and consider such a thing unknowable.
peace
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Yo cosmicdancer!
I can't show where you have been preaching about Jesus, that's why I said "If". I was just trying to find out if my hunch was right (apparently it is not).
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Show me where I have been preaching about Jesus?
I don't believe in any religion.
Peace out!
Anwar Azim -
Everyone will be presented with his deeds and gets what he earned
36.65. That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did.
101.6 Then, he whose balance will be heavy,
101.7. Will be in a life of good pleasure and satisfaction.
101.8. But he whose balance will be light,-
101.9. Will have his home in a (bottomless) Pit.
Also in chapter 99, the Koran tells us
99.6. On that Day will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the deeds that they (had done).
99.7. Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!
99.8. And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.
The Koran then tells us
17.13. Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open.
17.14."Read thine record Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee."
And also tells us very clearly
18.49. And the Book will be placed, and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.
Also
75.13. That Day will Man be told that he put forward, and all that he put back hail
Fair and square
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peace cosmicdancer,
In answer to your question, no, I don't think religion is nonsense.
You do seem to contradict yourself when you say
And then you say
peace
It does seem like a contradiction, but although I 'believe' there is a God I cannot confirm God exists for certain - it is merely my belief and I accept that I have no indisputable proof and my belief in God could very well be wrong.
In short - I am an Agnostic.
)
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Peace cosmicdancer,
An agnostic does not 'believe' in a God. I think you are just full of doubts and lost. (not a personal attack, but an assessment of your confusing and contradictory positions).
I would encourage you to resolve your doubts, as this is the worst topic to be a fence-sitter on. As with all topics, we must weigh the evidence, and choose the side which the evidence best supports.
peace
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Peace DArgento,
I agree that an Agnostic (in the theological sense) is a fence-sitter. I just don't think an Agnostic can also 'believe' in a God.
My understanding of Agnostic is one who believes that the evidence for and against the existence of God is inconclusive.
An Atheist, on the other hand, is one who denies the existence of God, not just doesn't believe in a God.For example Let's say a theist (or deist) says there is a red planet at the far end of our universe; and presents evidence for this belief/knowledge. The atheist would then present evidence for the belief/knowledge that there is not a red planet at the far end of the universe. The agnostic would say there is not enough information to believe/know whether there is a red planet at the far end of the universe and would leave it at that. They would NOT then say, but I believe there is a red planet anyway, because for them there is simply not enough information to make any kind of determination, one way or the other.
That is why I feel cosmicdancer's statements are contradictory--thus full of doubt and lost.
peace
p.s. Based on my experience, most agnostics are agnostic NOT because they have actually taken the time to weigh the evidence, but based on ignorance and fear of what they might find. It is just easier for them to go on not knowing.
(I realize there are different degrees of atheism and agnosticism which only confuses the topic more; strong atheism, weak atheism, ...)
peace
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Agree with David's post. That's basically what it is in a nutshell. peace
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Peace cosmicdancer,
An agnostic does not 'believe' in a God. I think you are just full of doubts and lost. (not a personal attack, but an assessment of your confusing and contradictory positions).
I would encourage you to resolve your doubts, as this is the worst topic to be a fence-sitter on. As with all topics, we must weigh the evidence, and choose the side which the evidence best supports.
peace
Fair enough - in that case I'd rather relinquish the label Agnostic.
Because I do believe in God.
)
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May I ask why you do now?
I don't understand that question.
I think you mis-typed it.
But my stance is that I reject all religions.
I think all the various prophets and religious people were sincere in their belief that God spoke to them - but it was not God - just their own mind/imaginings etc...
I do believe there is a God, power, force etc...
But I believe it is beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least in this life.
)
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I don't understand that question.
I think you mis-typed it.
But my stance is that I reject all religions.
I think all the various prophets and religious people were sincere in their belief that God spoke to them - but it was not God - just their own mind/imaginings etc...
I do believe there is a God, power, force etc...
But I believe it is beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least in this life.
I actually agree, to a certain extent. I think if God exists, He would surely communicate with us somehow (of course this is subjective, but it makes sense to me). Also, the fact that the "religions" have spread to billions and billions of people is a brow-raiser.
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But my stance is that I reject all religions.
I think all the various prophets and religious people were sincere in their belief that God spoke to them - but it was not God - just their own mind/imaginings etc...
I do believe there is a God, power, force etc...
But I believe it is beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least in this life.
As Navid i agree to a certain extent . i'd say rejection of "organized" religion - we each have one in a way, and i consider same prophets to be inspired and not all of them as schizophrenic, which does not mean that the teaching then were rendered and written down in a correct manner.
peace
LK -
I actually agree, to a certain extent. I think if God exists, He would surely communicate with us somehow (of course this is subjective, but it makes sense to me). Also, the fact that the "religions" have spread to billions and billions of people is a brow-raiser.
I would say the spreading is both good and bad. Most people today are born into religion, and if you want to see the true figures, you would want to look at history. Where are the atheist/agnostic civilisations? I guess they were so fatalistic they didn't bother to write their history.
I don't understand that question.
I think you mis-typed it.
But my stance is that I reject all religions.
I think all the various prophets and religious people were sincere in their belief that God spoke to them - but it was not God - just their own mind/imaginings etc...
I do believe there is a God, power, force etc...
But I believe it is beyond our understanding and unknowable - at least in this life.
How about God as the truth/reality? ;D
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How about God as the truth/reality? ;D
Maybe that's what God is.
Like some Sufis used to say "There is nothing except God!" - the idea that we and all creation is part of God and that our seperateness is an illusion.
The Sufis talked about "Fanaa'" destruction of the self and "Baqaa'" with Allah - that one day nothing will remain but the face/countenance/essence... of Allah.
I don't know...
I stick to my belief that God is unknowable for certain in this world and all we can offer is speculation or meditations. And the danger of that is that they get turned into an organised religion.
)
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Maybe that's what God is.
Like some Sufis used to say "There is nothing except God!" - the idea that we and all creation is part of God and that our seperateness is an illusion.
The Sufis talked about "Fanaa'" destruction of the self and "Baqaa'" with Allah - that one day nothing will remain but the face/countenance/essence... of Allah.
I don't know...
I stick to my belief that God is unknowable for certain in this world and all we can offer is speculation or meditations. And the danger of that is that they get turned into an organised religion.
)
you know, i am getting more interested in Sufi practice and ideas... i think Sufi practice compliments the Quran beautifully, actually. in the Quran we are encouraged and urged to remember God and seek His presence, and the Sufi tradition tends to make this the central aim.
have you ever read any Hazrat Inayat Khan? you might really enjoy him.
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have you ever read any Hazrat Inayat Khan? you might really enjoy him.
No, but I have always been a huge fan of Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi
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I would say the spreading is both good and bad. Most people today are born into religion, and if you want to see the true figures, you would want to look at history. Where are the atheist/agnostic civilisations? I guess they were so fatalistic they didn't bother to write their history.
Oh yeah definitely. I'd even say it's more bad than good. I was just saying that it's interesting.