Sun orbits the galaxy?
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"No, I didn't say it meant anything, because it neither said around the galaxy or around the earth. It is open to interpretation. You, however, attach one interpretation to it as if it is objectively true, and then call it a discrepancy. That is all. I assure you, all your so-called discrepancies will (and have) have the above attribute. Next.."
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And..?
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Again, you're taking your own interpretation of what the verse is saying and forcing it upon the actual text, then calling it a discrepancy. The verses say "Each float in an orbit." This does not even closely imply anything about going around the earth. Night and day being mentioned by it means nothing; again your own interpretation. I could just as easily say because the sun and the moon are associated with night and day, they are mentioned together. There is no logical/objective contradiction here. Only if you impose your interpretation.
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Again, the last line, your own interpretation. Nowhere does the quran openly say the sun and moon orbit the earth. There is no logical/objective contradiction here.
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Your conclusion is that it is not from God, but one of your premises have to be that it is not from God. It is an empty statement.
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I don't follow ahadith, the prophet's revelations are in the quran. The history of hadith is another story.
Unlike you, I don't impose my own beliefs and interpretations on the verse. It is what it is. There is NO logical/objective contradiction or discrepancy. Absolutely NONE. This is fact that you will have to accept. You are welcome to believe as you want, but this is something that must be accepted. Again, all your so-called discrepancies will be of this nature. Can we move on now? ....Next "discrepancy" please...
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Not one single one of those told us why we should think it means the sun orbiting the galaxy, and that was the question I had for you. But you're not even going to attempt it because you know there really isn't any good reason at all to think the Quran was talking about an orbit around the galaxy. At least I can give you reasons for my interpretation. You can't give me reasons for yours. Heh, at some point, the reader has to decide what is most likely. So I give my reasons, and you give yours. But we both know why you refuse to do this. Obviously, I have put you into stonewall mode, which is usually near when the conversation ends.
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Not one single one of those told us why we should think it means the sun orbiting the galaxy, and that was the question I had for you. But you're not even going to attempt it because you know there really isn't any good reason at all to think the Quran was talking about an orbit around the sun. At least I can give you reasons for my interpretation. You can't give me reasons for yours. Heh, at some point, the reader has to decide what is most likely. So I give my reasons, and you give yours. But we both know why you refuse to do this. Obviously, I have put you into stonewall mode, which is usually near when the conversation ends.
Is it me in "stonewall mode," or you? I have told you many times over, I did not claim it is talking about the galaxy. When you claim there is a discrepancy, the burden of proof is on you, which includes showing objective reasons why. Not interpretations. You are welcome to your own interpretation, but please, for future reference, note that your interpretation does not = objective contradiction.
Indeed one of us is in stonewall mode, and indeed it is near the end of the conversation.
Peace.
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This is fact that you will have to accept.
Why? You can't tell me why. I just simply MUST accept it. This is the bullheadedness of a lot of Muslims that I've discussed things with. When things get tough, they get really angry, stubborn and start making absolute proclamations and try and stamp out the conversation as quickly as possible. Do you call that being a truthseeker? I don't. Part of seeking the truth is testing and analyzing. But when I go far enough, out comes the anger and the window gets slammed shut.
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Why? You can't tell me why. I just simply MUST accept it. This is the bullheadedness of a lot of Muslims that I've discussed things with. When things get tough, they get really angry, stubborn and start making absolute proclamations and try and stamp out the conversation as quickly as possible. Do you call that being a truthseeker? I don't. Part of seeking the truth is testing and analyzing.
Do you have any sense of logic? I said it is fact that you are imposing your own interpretation on it and calling it a discrepancy.
Brother, why are you talking to me about truthseeking? You have come here, with 159 posts, all trying to disprove the quran, showing pure hate in the meanwhile. Your mind is already made up. Do not lecture me on your Muslim friends or if I am truthseeking or not, please. Thank you.
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Is it me in "stonewall mode," or you? I have told you many times over, I did not claim it is talking about the galaxy.
There are only one of two options, either it is circling the earth or it's circling the galaxy or some place in outer space. It's not circling another dimension, so you have to pick one. Is it the earth, or an outer space galaxy? Which one and why? And I KNOW you're going to side step this.
When you claim there is a discrepancy, the burden of proof is on you, which includes showing objective reasons why. Not interpretations. You are welcome to your own interpretation, but please, for future reference, note that your interpretation does not = objective contradiction.
Actually, you have that wrong, and i thank you because you have just displayed the common logical fallacy and fault that most Muslims use. You see, you would be right that I would have to prove the discrepancy, IF the Quran is first by priori assumed to be true. However, that priori is faulty and goes against reasonable logic. The truth of the matter is that nothing is proved. Therefore, there is no burden of proof on either side, and each side must make it's case to make it's side the likely choice. See? See the backwards system of priori logic used?
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Not one single one of those told us why we should think it means the sun orbiting the galaxy, and that was the question I had for you. But you're not even going to attempt it because you know there really isn't any good reason at all to think the Quran was talking about an orbit around the galaxy. At least I can give you reasons for my interpretation. You can't give me reasons for yours. Heh, at some point, the reader has to decide what is most likely. So I give my reasons, and you give yours. But we both know why you refuse to do this. Obviously, I have put you into stonewall mode, which is usually near when the conversation ends.
The word
in the verse we are discussing means galaxy.
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Do you have any sense of logic? I said it is fact that you are imposing your own interpretation on it and calling it a discrepancy.
And I make the case to make the interpretation likely. i don't just arbitrarily claim it, I show you why I claim it. But so far, you have done nothing of the sort, and it's because you have little reason for your interpretation..
Brother, why are you talking to me about truthseeking?
Because I think you're lying to yourself because it is such an emotional issue. That is a common human practice.
You have come here, with 159 posts, all trying to disprove the quran, showing pure hate in the meanwhile.
Ummmm, no. That's just part of the training. Anybody who disagrees with the Quran, thinks it's not the letter for letter dictation of God, and tries to display that, is a hateful person. That's the way you've been trained.
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There are only one of two options, either it is circling the earth or it's circling the galaxy or some place in outer space. It's not circling another dimension, so you have to pick one. Is it the earth, or an outer space galaxy? Which one and why? And I KNOW you're going to side step this.
The fact is there is no logical or objective contradiction here. It doesn't matter what I choose.
Actually, you have that wrong, and i thank you because you have just displayed the common logical fallacy and fault that most Muslims use. You see, you would be right that I would have to prove the discrepancy, IF the Quran is first by priori assumed to be true. However, that priori is faulty and goes against reasonable logic. The truth of the matter is that nothing is proved. Therefore, there is no burden of proof on either side, and each side must make it's case to make it's side the likely choice. See? See the backwards system of priori logic used?
When there is no clear, objective discrepancy in the particular verse, and you claim there is one you inevitably need to bring reasons. You did, and it showed that you imposed your own interpretation. I, on the other hand, did not claim anything; only that your so-called discrepancy requires your interpretation.
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Which verse?
2133 and 3640
The wordmeans galaxy or universe.
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And I make the case to make the interpretation likely. i don't just arbitrarily claim it, I show you why I claim it. But so far, you have done nothing of the sort, and it's because you have little reason for your interpretation..
I did not make an original claim. You did, and it was all based on twisting the verses to fit your preconceived interpretation
Because I think you're lying to yourself because it is such an emotional issue. That is a common human practice.
Ummmm, no. That's just part of the training. Anybody who disagrees with the Quran, thinks it's not the letter for letter dictation of God, and tries to display that, is a hateful person. That's the way you've been trained.
The only that seems emotional is you. You know nothing about what I believed before, how long I've followed the quran, etc. Please don't make ridiculous claims about me, ignorantly.
I have many discussions regarding the quran's divinity with openminded, objective people, including Christians and Atheists. I have no problem. You, on the other hand, come here solely to disprove the quran with your mind already made up, including mocking, unnecessary statements such has "'allah' clearly had a 7th century view of the universe," and many other unnecessary, insulting statements.
Please, stop preaching to me about "what I've been trained" or me "lying to myself."
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2133 and 3640
The wordmeans galaxy or universe.
I cannot find that word in 2133
nor in 3640
If I'm blind, then highlight that word in the Arabic above.
Now, I looked up the word you posted in the dictionary, and it says orb, orbit, tropic. So what exactly are you trying to pull here?
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I cannot find that word in 2133
nor in 3640
If I'm blind, then highlight that word in the Arabic above.
Now, I looked up the word you posted in the dictionary, and it says orb, orbit, tropic. So what exactly are you trying to pull here?
It means the the sky/space/universe.
http//lexicons.ajeeb.com/openme.asp?fileurl=/html/2055867.html
It's an Arabic dictionary
, , , . . . , , , , . . ,It means sky/space/universe.
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That link goes to the same exact dictionary I've been using. The one you said isn't good enough. ;D
Now what am I supposed to do with that link when the entire thing is in Arabic? I forget whether this is common technique number 5 or 7 on the list. It's called "hiding behind the Arabic". Knowing the other person can't read Arabic, one posts all Arabic and then declares the matter settled. That's pretty shameful.
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That link goes to the same exact dictionary I've been using. The one you said isn't good enough.
It goes to the same site, not the same dictionary.
Now what am I supposed to do with that link when the entire thing is in Arabic? I forget whether this is common technique number 5 or 7 on the list. It's called "hiding behind the Arabic". Knowing the other person can't read Arabic, one posts all Arabic and then declares the matter settled. That's pretty shameful.
I highlighted to you the word I am talking about. I am not hiding behind Arabic, the Quran is the epitome of Arabic language and so it's common sense that I get to large dictionaries to find what a certain word means. You can check the meaning of that word in Arabic/English dictionaries.
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It goes to the same site, not the same dictionary.I highlighted to you the word I am talking about. I am not hiding behind Arabic, the Quran is the epitome of Arabic language and so it's common sense that I get to large dictionaries to find what a certain word means. You can check the meaning of that word in Arabic/English dictionaries.
How am I supposed to read the definition you provided? You know full well that this was not intended for me to read.
Now, I told you that I cannot find that word you are referencing in the verse. And I asked you to quote the verse in Arabic, as i have done, as bold the word you are talking about. It doesn't look like it's there. AND, the word YOU gave, which doesn't appear to be in the verse, is translated to orb and orbit. If you think it's otherwise, then you have to show me in some way that I can understand, rather than just handing me a page of Arabic. You could take the story of Mary Poppins in Arabic and represent it as the Quran saying what you want it to, and how would I know any better? Pardon me while I don't particularly trust you. You've already tried to swap words out.
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I have to leave now. Will respond tomorrow.
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Peace Arnold,
The certainty you display is congruent with the deficit in your knowledge. Don't you think that it's about time to fill the gap?
www.studyquran.co.uk is filled with information on steps to take. You should take a look.
Nadeem
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Peace Arnold,
The certainty you display is congruent with the deficit in your knowledge.
Here...I'll make a claim to, just like you. Here goes. Your statement shows a deficiency of knowledge. There. Tah dah !!! See? I can do that to. So where are we at? Nowhere. So why did you bother to type? I can invent opinions too. See how meaningless that is? Where's the point? See what I mean? And the funniest part, is the you preclude this with "Peace Arnold". ;D
Don't you think that it's about time to fill the gap?
Don't you think it's about time to see the brainwashing that has been given to you?
Oh, OK
Of course not, because, naturally, you are right, and I am wrong. Huh huh huh (fake relaxed laughter). Cracks me up.
www.studyquran.co.uk is filled with information on steps to take. You should take a look.
Nadeem
Have you ever considered the possibility that these steps were created for you and others so that you may look upon these scriptures as others would like you to rather than as they really are? Oh no. No no no. Of course not