question about quran
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peace all
ok i've been asked quite a few times.
hadith followers say, hadith were preserved by the same people who preserved the quran, so how come hadith are not authentic and quran is?
also, one of them mentioned this guy, Usman Ghani, who compiled the quran we have today from several different qurans. he said there were like 30 different parts of the quran (something like that) and this guy Usman compiled parts of them and that's the quran we have today.
what do you think about this?
also, this one person also said
its a form of shirk according to sheikh kabbani also, those who read quran and imagine they can understand it on their own, they are associating their egos with Allah.what do you think about this?
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peace all
ok i've been asked quite a few times.
hadith followers say, hadith were preserved by the same people who preserved the quran, so how come hadith are not authentic and quran is?
also, one of them mentioned this guy, Usman Ghani, who compiled the quran we have today from several different qurans. he said there were like 30 different parts of the quran (something like that) and this guy Usman compiled parts of them and that's the quran we have today.
what do you think about this?
also, this one person also said
its a form of shirk according to sheikh kabbani also, those who read quran and imagine they can understand it on their own, they are associating their egos with Allah.what do you think about this?
Dear
your post has two parts
1 About preservation of the Holy Quran - that is correct whether some denies it or not ,it is a historical fact.
2About understanding Quran - this part is not correct.
Every one has the right to try to understand the quran.But there are definitely some pre-requisites for it.
I give you the example.
Every one has the right to become a doctor and treat the people.But to be a "doctor" has certain Pre-requisites like
-Proper education to get admission in medical school
-proper training and education concerning medical science.
-Then he will be licensed to treat the people.
You can very well imagine if a person without fulfillment of these pre-requisites ,starts treating the persons what will happen.Rest assure that Quran is in Classical Arabic.One must be having full grip on
-classical Arabic (not todays' arabic which is different)
-Its grammar
-Its vocabulary
-Balagha
And those particular conditions in which particular verses were revealed.
Otherwise ignore ignore ignore -
hadith followers say, hadith were preserved by the same people who preserved the quran, so how come hadith are not authentic and quran is?
Quran isn't preserved by 'people'...- Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Peace
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Rest assure that Quran is in Classical Arabic.One must be having full grip on
-classical Arabic (not todays' arabic which is different)
-Its grammar
-Its vocabulary
-Balagha
And those particular conditions in which particular verses were revealed.
Otherwise ignore ignore ignoreYes, most definitely people of the highest intellect ? ?professionals? in their field like the leading mullah of Egypt who believes in absurdities and issuing fatwa's on the blessings of drinking urine... yuck
The fatwa provoked strong objections on the part of the Egyptian religious establishment. Leading Al-Azhar and Religious Endowments Ministry officials stated that Gum'a's conclusions were mistaken even though they were based on Islamic sources. They added that his claims were inappropriate for the modern era and that they only caused embarrassment in the Egyptian street and did damage to the Prophet and to Islam.
There was an outcry against the fatwa from the Egyptian public, and a complaint was filed against Gum'a demanding that he stand trial for harming Islam, the Prophet, and the Companions of the Prophet. Columnists in the Egyptian papers ridiculed the fatwa and protested against it While some argued that there was no point in raising such issues from the past that had nothing to do with public life today, others stated that the fatwa was for Islamic scholars, not for the masses, and still others said that it was a tool for those who sought to harm Islam. Some also called on Gum'a to resign from his post as the Mufti of Egypt.
While according to some reports Gum'a had apologized for the fatwa, in actuality he clarified that he had not apologized, but had only decided to remove the book from the market and to refrain from appearing in the media until the uproar subsided.
No more comments.
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Quran isn't preserved by 'people'...
- Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Peace
There is Quranic verse
3123
(3123) For sure Allah helped you at Badr when you were utterly weak. Beware, then, of Allah; perhaps you will be thankfulWould you please explain how God helped muslims in Bader ?
Did the muslims keep on sitting in homes and Allah fought in their place or Allah helped them according to "Law of nature" ?
Just curious -
1 About preservation of the Holy Quran - that is correct whether some denies it or not ,it is a historical fact.
Dear
Evidence please. Silly hadeethists.
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peace
Quran isn't preserved by 'people'...
- Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Peace
that's the whole point, that's why i asked,
they say that this guy Usman or someone else, made up that verse (159)also, they say there were different people with different parts of the quran and this guy took some parts and left other parts out.
i don't know what to say to these people
or how to explain this -
peace
that's the whole point, that's why i asked,
they say that this guy Usman or someone else, made up that verse (159)also, they say there were different people with different parts of the quran and this guy took some parts and left other parts out.
i don't know what to say to these people
or how to explain thisWait, so they believe the Quran has that verse made up, hence they disbelieve in the Quran? No follower of the Quran would actually make that retarded claim.
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peace
Wait, so they believe the Quran has that verse made up, hence they disbelieve in the Quran? No follower of the Quran would actually make that retarded claim.
it was mentioned by some hadith followers. they were asking me about it, so i asked people here if they might know something about it.
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They are following hadeeth, not Quran. Is a hadeeth follower an authority on the quran (though nobody is)? Is a quran follower an authority on the bible?
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peace
that's the whole point, that's why i asked,
they say that this guy Usman or someone else, made up that verse (159)also, they say there were different people with different parts of the quran and this guy took some parts and left other parts out.
i don't know what to say to these people
or how to explain thisWhosoever said so that is absolutely wrong.Quran is 100% preserved in its original form
It is Al-kitaab = written form
It is Al-Quran = read form
Its preservation is not only on paper (or any other writing material ) but also in the minds of millions of Huffaaz.
Both method of preservation have been carried out from the early days of Islam.
Today RK can pull out two verses from the Quran from his website script but how he will be able to scratch from the minds of millions of Hufaaz? -
peace nerspi, all,
hadith followers say, hadith were preserved by the same people who preserved the quran, so how come hadith are not authentic and quran is?
This is a classic claim by some traditional Muslims. Please see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14587.msg134005#msg134005
A commonly stated argument by those who wish to raise traditional heresay/ahadith to divine-status level is that its compilation was the same as The Quran.
Is that really true? Lets look at the simple and obvious facts...
The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's wordThe Quran = 100% fact/truth/perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)The Quran = recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet MuhammadThe Quran = written AND memorised word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no-one ever claimed to record and memorise ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmittedThe Quran = protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection statedThe Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones etcThe Quran = in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistancies etc. -
peace nerspi, all,
This is a classic claim by some traditional Muslims. Please see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14587.msg134005#msg134005
A commonly stated argument by those who wish to raise traditional heresay/ahadith to divine-status level is that its compilation was the same as The Quran.
Is that really true? Lets look at the simple and obvious facts...
The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's wordThe Quran = 100% fact/truth/perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)The Quran = recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet MuhammadThe Quran = written AND memorised word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no-one ever claimed to record and memorise ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmittedThe Quran = protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection statedThe Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones etcThe Quran = in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistancies etc.Topic is not about comparison between Hadith and Quran rather how the Quran was preserved .
God preserved the Quran- Without involvement of "laws of nature "
- With involvement of "laws of nature "
??
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Lets look at the simple and obvious facts...
The Quran = God's Word
Ahadith = man's wordThe Quran = 100% fact/truth/perfect
Ahadith = mix of truth and falsehood (hence weak and strong hadith)The Quran = recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet Muhammad
Ahadith = not recorded under the DIRECT supervision of prophet MuhammadThe Quran = written AND memorised word for word as soon as it was transmitted
Ahadith = no-one ever claimed to record and memorise ahadith word for word as soon as it was transmittedThe Quran = protected explicitly by God Himself as stated in The Quran
Ahadith = no such explicit protection statedThe Quran = no Muslim doubts its credibility
Ahadith = each sect has its own versions, weak & strong ones etcThe Quran = in-built verification mechanism, e.g. challenges others to find inconsistancy, bring a chapter like it etc.
Ahadith = no such in-built mechanism, full of inconsistancies etc.So clear, yet for some, so much confusion.
Peace
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Topic is not about comparison between Hadith and Quran rather how the Quran was preserved .
God preserved the Quran- Without involvement of "laws of nature "
- With involvement of "laws of nature "
??
hadith followers say, hadith were preserved by the same people who preserved the quran, so how come hadith are not authentic and quran is?
Sounds like comparison to me. What do you think?
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peace
well... yeah
how could they make a copy of one thing (quran) and it's ok, nothing wrong with it,
yet they make a copy of another thing (hadith), then it's not ok, somehow it's false and wrong and not acceptableHere are a few questions
1.) Have you VERIFIED that these same people enscribed both the Quran and ahadeeth?
2.) Have you VERIFIED that there is physical evidence for those statements as opposed to hearsay and textual sources?
3.) Have you VERIFIED that the hadeeth came from a 6th century Arab called "Muhammad" (who fed 500 people with a single glass of water)?
And most importantly
4.) Have you VERIFIED that the Quran is the word of God?
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peace
well... yeah
how could they make a copy of one thing (quran) and it's ok, nothing wrong with it,
yet they make a copy of another thing (hadith), then it's not ok, somehow it's false and wrong and not acceptableAbsolutely genuine question.
Keep one thing in mind when expecting response.
It is my personal experience even when talking to a traditional 'mullah" and the same thing over here When responder becomes speechless or left with no solid arguement then- He starts mocking
- He gets annoyed
Both of these behaviours are immature defence mechanisms.Naturally one has to throw out of mind what is inside it.
