question about quran
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yeah i feel like i learn somethig new everytime i read it, and it becomes more clear if you look at all of it.
there were quite a few things that seemed like a contradicction to me, but reading it more and thinking about it more i saw it's not, it's perfectly clear, and i checked with somke who understand arabic more and i was right, no contradiction.Nerspi
same here. i try to take some time out in the evenings to read the Quran, and am continually struck by its simplicity and clarity, its uncluttered and compassionate urging to worship One God, and to remember the connection. i know i've heard countless Muslims say just that to me before i became a Muslim myself, and i'd always kind of scoff inwardly and doubt. "yeah, sure, it's clear and wonderful. ok... meh."
2115 ~~ 7205-206 ~~ 3030-32 ~~ 10104-109
we are all searching for our return, for truth, for peace. this is what life is ultimately about. the Quran is for me, first and foremost, a clear guide upon the straight path, and an immeasurable mercy.
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ok i don't know how they would explain this, but i do know they say quran tell us to follow hadith (when it says to obey the messenger).
at first glance it would seem like a contradiction.
There's a disconnect between following the compilation of what long chains of people hearing what the prophet said and obeying the messenger. It's not a firm connection at all. And it's not a contradiction at all.
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peace all
so... what you're telling us is that... there is more revelation outside of quran. and Allah didn't mention why.
that's nice. so out of all details mentioned in thousands of hadith, from all things covered in there, there is not a single hadith where God says why He didn't mention details of prayers in the quran????? ???Dear Nerspi
Though I have already answered your question and that should have been sufficient.But probably you did not pay attention.
Just think
A person says
"I am a prophet " we accept
"I have received revelation in the form of Quran " we accept it .'
"I have received revelation about nature of rituals " we REJECT IT.
Can you tell me on what ground you reject it.
If that person is a LIAR ,then nothing should be acceptable from him.
If he is a truthful and he is why to REJECT HIS THIRD CLAIM.
Saying that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) did not receive extra quranic revelation ,is absolutely wrong.He used to receive extra Quranic revelations.I give you a few examples;EXAMPLE NO. 1
2143
(2143) We had appointed the r qiblah towards which you used to turn your face merely to test who would follow the Messenger and who would turn back. *145 It was indeed a hard test but not for those who had been blessed with Guidance from Allah. Allah will not let go to waste this faith of yours; rest assured that He is full of pity and mercy for mankindHere Allah is saying that "First qibla was appointed by Him". Can you tell me in which verse of the Quran Allah declared this first qibla.It was nothing but "extra quranic " revelation.
EXAMPLE NO 2
3124
(3124) And recall when you said to the believers 'Will it not suffice you that your Lord will aid you by sending down three thousand angelsAt time of battle of Bader the prophet told his companions that Allah will send 3000 angels.Can you let me know in which Verse of the Quran this promise is present.It is "Extra Quranic" revelation
EAMPLE NO; 3
(87) And recall when Allah promised you that one of the two hosts would fall to you,
In this verse Allah is reminding the muslims a promise from Him to them about Kuffaar that one of the two group will join you. Can you show me this promise of Allah is present that Allah is reminding in this verse. It is nothing but 'Extra Quranic"
EXAMPLE NO 4
663
(663) (And this also is note-worthy that) the Prophet had confided a matter to a wife in secret. Then, when she disclosed the secret (to another), and Allah informed the Prophet (of the disclosure of the secret), the Prophet made known (to the wife) part of it and overlooked part of it. So when the Prophet told her (of the disclosure), she asked, "Who informed you of this?" The Prophet said, "I was informed by Him Who knows everything and is All-Aware. " *The prophet told some secret to one his wife which she disclosed. Allah told the prophet about it. She asked who told you .He said ' Aleem /Al kahbeer". Can you tell me in which quranic verse did Allah tell this secret. It was extra-Quranic revelation.
Remember Quran has not used the word s "aleem/khabeer " rather "AL ?Aleem and AL ? Khabeer". The word 'aleeem /khabeer " without "AL ?" can denoter any other informer but Quran has used the words "Al-Aleem and Al-Khabeer " only and only for Allah.EAMPLE NO 5
595
(595) Whatever palm trees you cut down, or whatever you left standing upon their roots, it was only by Allah's leave. *9 And (Allah gave the leave) in order to disgrace the transgressorsOnce the muslims cut the palm trees of the Kuffaar. He Allah says that these were cut with "permission of Allah" . In which verse of the Quran is permission is granted ?? This was extra-quranic revelation.
All these examples point towards "Extra ? Quranic revelation." More over Quran has clearly advised us to "Obey the Prophet"
EVERY MUSLIM IS BOUND TO OBEY THE PROPHET
Look at this verse
3336
(3336) It *65 does not behove a believing man and a believing woman that when Allah and His Messenger have given their decision in a matter, they should exercise an option in that matter of theirs; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Prophet, has indeed strayed into manifest errorThis verse clearly says that Mumineen are bound to obey ANY SORT OF DECISION MADE BY ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET" .
That is why Allah said
3321
(3321) There was indeed the best model for you in the Messenger of Allah, *34 for every such person who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.The prophet is the example to be FOLLOWED.
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peace
Obviously hadeeth in the Quran has a completely different meaning. I know, music!!! That evil music! It caused all of the world's problems. What an abomination. And TV! Electricity! Ack ack! Kaffir inventions!
hehe, and pictures too, i've been acused of shirk because i have pictures.
There's a disconnect between following the compilation of what long chains of people hearing what the prophet said and obeying the messenger. It's not a firm connection at all. And it's not a contradiction at all.
i wasn't trying to say there's a contradiction, just that from those verses (7185,7750...) we can see it says 'no' to hadith, yet some say 'obey the messenger' means 'yes' to hadith, you know.
now allen, i don't know how to answer the examples you posted there, i've heard such examples before, kinda why i started this topic (among others), hope someone here will explain, i'm looking forward to the answer myself.
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^
It is very simple. Someone has not grasped the concept of "anecdotes" yet. If Person A says to Person B "Remember that time when we went to X and did Y and Z?" while in the company of D, E, F, G, H, and so on, are D, E, F, G, H, and so on (we are talking about the corpus of believers here) required to know the intimate details of what happened? What about when Person A is God who controls what he reveals and has full control and mastery over its consequences and knows what information to convey? Is God's quran not detailed enough? This is also a simple linguistic device.
All of those questions are fully redundant bordering on idiocy. The answer is in the verse itself. For instance, in 2143 we are told the prior qibla - are we required to know which qibla this is? Keep in mind the person telling us is God who, again, has full mastery over his message and its implications. We have a qibla assigned now, follow it, period. Or, find me some "extra-Quranic revelation" aka hearsay that explains how Noah lived 900 years.
Not surprising from the same person who cannot read without case endings.
Throughout the quran, God tells us it is a reminder, where is the prior message? Is it also "extra-Quranic revelation"? Even when the quran itself has everything said to previous messengers?
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Remember also, that God does NOT run out of words (18109, 3127). God is the one who explains the quran (7516-19) and God is the teacher of the quran (551-2)
Also, don't forget about 6112-113, God already warned us about the 'hadeeth' of every prophet.
Note the advice in the latter part of 6112 "You shall disregard them and their fabrications". Then immediately after that we are informed in 6114 that quran is fully detailed AND in 6115 we are told that the Lord's word is complete and there is NO changing in his words. THEN, we are warned again in 6116 that if we obey the majority of the people we will go astray due to the human nature of following conjecture.
Remember the question posed in 7750
7750 So in which HADITH after it will they believe?
Remember also, The messenger is NOT a guardian over anyone (goodbye intercession) (424, The messenger is ONLY required to deliver the message. (1340, 599), The messenger was barred and threatened from issuing any other teachings (6940-46). The messengers have no idea how they will be resurrected either (1621)
Lastly, The messenger complains on the Day of Judgment of his people deserting the quran (2530).
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Dear Nerspi
No one was able to refute the evidence for "Extra Quranic Revelation".
It should be sufficient to open your eyes.No one could be bothered to because the answer to "Extra Quranic Revelation"? is in the question's quranic reference itself.
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peace all
so there's gotta be a reason why revelation was written in 2 books.
who decided that this revelation will be written in one book and that revelation will be written in another book?
is there a reaon for that written anywhere?
because some hadith will be false and it'll get mixed up, it's more confusing that way.besides, the examples you mentioned are directed more to people at that time then to whole humanity.
except your 1st example but there's a simple explanation for that...EXAMPLE NO. 1
2143
(2143) We had appointed the r qiblah towards which you used to turn your face merely to test who would follow the Messenger and who would turn back. *145 It was indeed a hard test but not for those who had been blessed with Guidance from Allah. Allah will not let go to waste this faith of yours; rest assured that He is full of pity and mercy for mankindHere Allah is saying that "First qibla was appointed by Him". Can you tell me in which verse of the Quran Allah declared this first qibla.It was nothing but "extra quranic " revelation.
didn't people used to turn to that first qibla since abraham?
it's not that it's extra-quranic revelation, it's more pre-quranic.about the rest of the examples, they're directed at people living there at that time,
if there would be something IMPORTANT it would have been mentioned in the quran since it is for the whole humanity.as for the prophet being an example, we follow him, he did everything God told us to do in the quran, we do it too, i just don't know why you include tradition as a part of religion.
whatever he was doing in his private life he's been doing before he became the messenger, it's not like God told him to do it, it was a way of life in arabia back then.let me give you an example
lets say you and muhammad work in a company, and he gets promoted,
do you think you'll get promoted if you act like he does in his private life (eating, sleeping a certain way)?
or will you get promoted if you're as good as he was AT YOUR JOB? -
Peace be upon you,
The "quran" is not the title of any book, and the book we are suppossed to be studying is the one all MANMADE books point us to anyway, the Book of Life.
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so there's gotta be a reason why revelation was written in 2 books.
who decided that this revelation will be written in one book and that revelation will be written in another book?
is there a reaon for that written anywhere?i just don't know why you include tradition as a part of religion.
whatever he was doing in his private life he's been doing before he became the messenger, it's not like God told him to do it, it was a way of life in arabia back then.Salaam nerspi
These two are very good points peace
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Greetings idolfree...
The "quran" is not the title of any book, and the book we are suppossed to be studying is the one all MANMADE books point us to anyway, the Book of Life.
I'm so glad you see it that way because that's what I've come to understand as well.
sun
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peace
The "quran" is not the title of any book, and the book we are suppossed to be studying is the one all MANMADE books point us to anyway, the Book of Life.
well ok, i just meant like why would they be writing one part of the revelation here and the other part there, why not in the same book, right.
also, what is this book of life you mentioned there?Quote from nerspi on October 17, 2007, 113024 AM
so there's gotta be a reason why revelation was written in 2 books.
who decided that this revelation will be written in one book and that revelation will be written in another book?
is there a reaon for that written anywhere?Quote from nerspi on October 17, 2007, 113024 AM
i just don't know why you include tradition as a part of religion.
whatever he was doing in his private life he's been doing before he became the messenger, it's not like God told him to do it, it was a way of life in arabia back then.Salaam nerspi
These two are very good points peace
thank you.
i would still like to hear what Allen or any other hf would say to this -
Dear Nerspi
Though I have already answered your question and that should have been sufficient.But probably you did not pay attention.
Just think
A person says
"I am a prophet " we accept
"I have received revelation in the form of Quran " we accept it .'
"I have received revelation about nature of rituals " we REJECT IT.
Can you tell me on what ground you reject it.
If that person is a LIAR ,then nothing should be acceptable from him.
If he is a truthful and he is why to REJECT HIS THIRD CLAIM.
Saying that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) did not receive extra quranic revelation ,is absolutely wrong.He used to receive extra Quranic revelations.I give you a few examples;EXAMPLE NO. 1
2143
(2143) We had appointed the r qiblah towards which you used to turn your face merely to test who would follow the Messenger and who would turn back. *145 It was indeed a hard test but not for those who had been blessed with Guidance from Allah. Allah will not let go to waste this faith of yours; rest assured that He is full of pity and mercy for mankindHere Allah is saying that "First qibla was appointed by Him". Can you tell me in which verse of the Quran Allah declared this first qibla.It was nothing but "extra quranic " revelation.
EXAMPLE NO 2
3124
(3124) And recall when you said to the believers 'Will it not suffice you that your Lord will aid you by sending down three thousand angelsAt time of battle of Bader the prophet told his companions that Allah will send 3000 angels.Can you let me know in which Verse of the Quran this promise is present.It is "Extra Quranic" revelation
EAMPLE NO; 3
(87) And recall when Allah promised you that one of the two hosts would fall to you,
In this verse Allah is reminding the muslims a promise from Him to them about Kuffaar that one of the two group will join you. Can you show me this promise of Allah is present that Allah is reminding in this verse. It is nothing but 'Extra Quranic"
EXAMPLE NO 4
663
(663) (And this also is note-worthy that) the Prophet had confided a matter to a wife in secret. Then, when she disclosed the secret (to another), and Allah informed the Prophet (of the disclosure of the secret), the Prophet made known (to the wife) part of it and overlooked part of it. So when the Prophet told her (of the disclosure), she asked, "Who informed you of this?" The Prophet said, "I was informed by Him Who knows everything and is All-Aware. " *The prophet told some secret to one his wife which she disclosed. Allah told the prophet about it. She asked who told you .He said ' Aleem /Al kahbeer". Can you tell me in which quranic verse did Allah tell this secret. It was extra-Quranic revelation.
Remember Quran has not used the word s "aleem/khabeer " rather "AL ?Aleem and AL ? Khabeer". The word 'aleeem /khabeer " without "AL ?" can denoter any other informer but Quran has used the words "Al-Aleem and Al-Khabeer " only and only for Allah.EAMPLE NO 5
595
(595) Whatever palm trees you cut down, or whatever you left standing upon their roots, it was only by Allah's leave. *9 And (Allah gave the leave) in order to disgrace the transgressorsOnce the muslims cut the palm trees of the Kuffaar. He Allah says that these were cut with "permission of Allah" . In which verse of the Quran is permission is granted ?? This was extra-quranic revelation.
All these examples point towards "Extra ? Quranic revelation." More over Quran has clearly advised us to "Obey the Prophet"
EVERY MUSLIM IS BOUND TO OBEY THE PROPHET
Look at this verse
3336
(3336) It *65 does not behove a believing man and a believing woman that when Allah and His Messenger have given their decision in a matter, they should exercise an option in that matter of theirs; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Prophet, has indeed strayed into manifest errorThis verse clearly says that Mumineen are bound to obey ANY SORT OF DECISION MADE BY ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET" .
That is why Allah said
3321
(3321) There was indeed the best model for you in the Messenger of Allah, *34 for every such person who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.The prophet is the example to be FOLLOWED.
Peace to all,
This is the first time that I am writing on this forum, although I have been lurking around it for a good week. I read a lot of the threads, most of which, with interest. I do not participate in any of them, primarily because, I do not consider myself knowledgeable enough to.
I just came across some of the posts from an ?Allen? on this thread, ?question about quran?. The post quoted above seemed interesting to me and provoked me to think about his assertions.
He started off with the following
?A person says
"I am a prophet " we accept
"I have received revelation in the form of Quran " we accept it .'
"I have received revelation about nature of rituals " we REJECT IT.
Can you tell me on what ground you reject it.
If that person is a LIAR ,then nothing should be acceptable from him.
If he is a truthful and he is why to REJECT HIS THIRD CLAIM.?1st statement by the aforementioned person - ?I am a prophet? and we accept, right? Well, I am not exactly sure whether any messenger (except Moses, perhaps) even claimed to be a prophet/messenger but only ?a warner? and/or ?a bringer of glad tidings?. Now there are many verses in the Quran which would support the assertion that the prophet/messenger was instructed to say that ?I am only a warner and a bringer of glad tidings?. The prophet/messenger were only labeled as such by Allah whenever they were referred to by Him.
But I suppose that is besides the point, as it is just a play of words. Whether the person said, ?I am a prophet/messenger? or ?I am only a warner and a bringer of glad tidings?, we accepted but with some skepticism. Here is a person who is proclaiming to convey the message of Allah. Anybody, except blind followers, would hang onto every word that he utters and try to find if he says anything inconsistent in his proclamation, so that they can expose him and his proclamations as fraudulent.
The next thing he says is, "I have received revelation in the form of this Quran"; we accept it, again with skepticism and wariness. This appears to be consistent with the first claim, because if he is a messenger, he must have a message. How he does proclaim this statement is interesting, as we see from the following verse (one of many such similar verses)
619 ? Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you, and this Qur'an has been revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Can you testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate."
Hmmm? this is the greatest testimony/shahada? That ?this? Quran has been revealed to him? With Allah as his witness? I?d say that this was a very weighty testimony. So we accept this as well. No inconsistency between his first claim and his second claim.Now, he makes the 3rd Claim, "I have received revelation about nature of rituals." We ask him, ?Are these part of the ?Quran? that you mentioned has been revealed to you?? He says, ?No, these are not part of the Quran, but they were revealed to me by Allah.? Then we say, ?But you said that the Quran was revealed to you and indicated that it was the greatest testimony. How do we know that you are not making this up?? Okay, so now the person is trapped. He is about to be called a liar and lose all his followers. He has two options, as I see it. One, he could change his ?greatest testimony? to say that this Quran and all other inspirations from Allah have been revealed to me or omit the ?greatest testimony? altogether. Two, he could simply say that the revelations about the nature of the rituals are part of the Quran and therefore should include them in it. Simple, isn?t it?
But strangely enough, he doesn?t do either, and what is even stranger is that he still had followers after this apparent contradiction. He must have been a very smooth talker but no one is that smooth. Most would have rejected such a person even then, what to talk of now. But no, the number of his followers grew. Curiouser and curiouser. So, let?s think about it? What are the plausible (and logical) explanations for the increase in his following when he was preaching?
(1) Since people had accepted him as the messenger/prophet, they also accepted whatever he said, even though he said one thing once and contradicted it the next and also didn?t practice what he preached in some cases.
(2) People only believed that he was the ?Genuine? article because he did not make any inconsistent claims and practiced whatever he preached.Now the first one is pretty much common in the present day, in fact, I?d venture out to say that almost all the present Muslims (of whatever present sects there are) believe in the first explanation. But what about the people at the time when the Quran was revealed to the Messenger? What would they have done? To illustrate that scenario, let us assume that someone today proclaims to be a messenger of Allah. Any rational person would first listen to what he has to say and do, after which he would scrutinize that person?s words and deeds. In the event of any inconsistency between them, he would be quick to dismiss that person?s claims and logically expose that person?s inconsistencies to whomever may take heed, and more often than not, one will see that people will start rejecting that person?s claim to messenger-ship and that person?s following will start declining (a case which we have seen, oh so many times). But we know that this was not the case when the Quran was revealed to the Messenger. His following increased which we have already established. Thus, logically we can say that the first one appears improbable.
So now in light of the above, the most plausible and logical explanation appears to be the second one, that is, people would only have believed that he was the ?Genuine? messenger because he did not make any inconsistent claims and practiced whatever he preached. Therefore, now the question is can we assert that in all probability the messenger could not have made the inconsistent 3rd and last claim and thus, reject it as fabrication? This question I leave the reader to think and ponder over.
Now onto the ?Extra-Quranic? revelations and the quoted verses from the Quran in support of those revelations. There are 5 examples so quoted and may be more in the Quran, I am not sure
1st Example Appointment of Previous Qibla.
2nd Example Sending of 3,000 angels.
3rd Example Allah?s promise about the hosts.
4th Example Messenger?s secret matter.
5th Example The cutting down of the Palm trees.
Now, I would like the reader to think about this. All of the above examples (and possibly more which have not been quoted here) of the indications of ?Extra-Quranic? revelations have been taken from?. where? The Quran, yes? And thus, become Quranic revelations, no? In each example, we have been told what the revelation was
1st Example The direction of the Qibla was inspired to the Messenger; we are told in the Quran that Allah appointed a Qibla where the Messenger used to turn his face.
2nd Example The prophet was inspired that 3,000 angels will be sent down to aid the believers; we are told in the Quran that the Messenger under inspiration told the believers about the aid of 3,000 angels.
3rd Example Allah?s promised the messenger about the hosts; The Quran informs us about that promise.
4th Example Prophet?s secret matter; we are told about that affair in the Quran
5th Example The cutting down of the Palm trees by Allah?s permission; we are told that the trees were cut down by Allah?s permission.
Any incident or revelation or indication thereof in the Quran? simply fails to remain ?Extra-Quranic?. Now one can say that if they have been incidences like these, why is it so difficult to fathom that there might be other incidences as well? Well, I ask them, aren?t all such incidences already described in the Quran? The reply to this question would be, ?No, no? I am talking about the ones not described in the Quran, e.g. the nature of the rituals? My question, now, would be,? ?Hmm, now why would the messenger make the above examples part of the Quran and not make important inspirations concerning the nature of rituals, a part of the Quran?? Why, oh why, indeed? Again, a question for the reader to ponder over.
Now the following and obedience to the messenger. "Following", simply put, means doing or not doing what the Messenger "did" or "refrained from doing" and Obeying means doing what the Messenger "said"... Taking this stance, we can get a fair idea of what the Messenger did (or refrained from doing) and said from the following ayah
244 - "Do you enjoin others to do what is good and forget your own selves, while you read the book ? Will you not then understand?"
Considering the above verse, we can establish that the Messenger would have "practiced what he preached", i.e. establish prayer, give zakat, bow down with those who bow down, seek assistance through patience and prayer, worship none but Allah, do good to parents, relatives, orphans and the needy, speak kindly to mankind, not to shed blood amongst yourselves, not to turn out your own people from your homes etc. to name a few. Such acts have been preached throughout the Quran in numerous verses, which I am sure you'll agree. In summary, when the Quran was revealed to the Messenger and was preached to the Believers, we were ordered to "obey" what the Messenger preached and thus, since he also practiced what he preached, so doing what he practiced and preached, we are actually "following" the messenger. It seems like a very simple explanation but then Islam is supposed to be make things clear and simple as the following verse suggests
519 - "O People of the Book ! there indeed has come to you Our Messenger, after a break in the series of Messengers, who makes things clear to you lest you should say, `There has come to us no bearer of glad tidings and no warner.' So a bearer of glad tidings and a warner has indeed come to you. And Allah has power over all things."
Well, that is about all that I have to say about that and in the end, I just want to quote some verses from Chapter 39, which I found to be a very thought-provoking chapter. Consider the following verse and their flow and sequence
3923 - "Allah has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, repeating. The skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide "
3927 - "We have cited for the people all kinds of examples in this Quran, that they may take heed."
3929 - " Allah puts forth a example of a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah! but most of them have no knowledge. "
Think about the chain of verses and the example given by Allah in the last verse a person governed by one source cannot be the same as a person governed by more than one source?
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Salaam Sharp001
First let me welcome you to the forum. I hope you learn from it.
Now to your post.
It shows that you are quite good in the building of a "logicl" argument, but unfortunately you based your arguement on a false statement You (and Allen for this matter, as well as most hf) claim that the prophet did this and the prophet said that, whereas you have 0 evidence that the prophet did say or do that, and that's our (the QA) dilemma with hf and myth believers. In fact we believe more than them/you that the prophet did not say nonesense nor did he preach anything other than the quraan, based on what we learned about him from the quraan. To tell me that the quraan detailed the wadu, for example, but the prophet decided to add to it a few extras, or that the quraan stated clearly that zani and zania should be flogged but the prophet stoned them and expect me to believe that is either
- asking me to believe that the prophet is not a sincere messenger
- asking me to take the quraan lightly
- expecting me to believe those who -in a two hundred years chain of narrators- claimed that the prophet did that.
When you assert that the prophet did or said that (which is not mentioned in the quraan AND contradicts it or is contrary to it) without giving a valid evidence, you either
- know that, know logic and thus lying to us
- being told a lie which you believed, and so your logic is valid according to your wrong information.
- taking the prophet lightly and believe he followed other than the quraan, and so logic is irrelevant here, no need for it.
- do not know the quraan enough you need to study quraan without a shade of extra literature telling you the quraan is un-undertandable without it, and take a lesson in logic as well.
The same goes to Allen's post
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Salaam to you as well, Samia
Thank you for welcoming me to the forum. Umm... about your reply... first, I appreciate that you believe that I am good in building a "logic" argument, but I am confused. You said that I based my argument on a false statement, but I was very careful not to. I mean when I was quoting Allen's first statement, wherein he claimed that the messenger proclaimed prophethood, I looked up in the Quran to see if the messenger actually did say that but the messenger only proclaimed to be a warner/a bringer of glad tidings, so I pointed that fact out, more or less. Furthermore, did you even see if I mentioned the word "Prophet" anywhere? Why, because prophet is even the right word to describe a "Nabi" because Prophet means someone who prophesizes. We know from the Quran that the messenger claimed about not having knowledge of the future (I am sure you know the reference of the verse I am talking about).
The fact that I tried to logically refute the claim that the messenger made the third statement because it is a fabricated one or "nonsense" as you put it, did not in any way imply that I believe he preached anything outside of the Quran. The part of my post about the third statement. Does it not show how futile it is to assert that the Messenger even made the third claim? I thought that the line of reasoning that I stated would make everybody understand (HF and QA included) that the 3rd claim couldn't possibly have been made by the messenger and thus I thought that it would answer Allen as to why the muslims would and should reject the 3rd claim.
But apparently, I was unable to get my point across. I did not and probably will never claim that the Messenger (in his capacity of Allah's Messenger) said or did anything outside of the Quran. But if in my post, I did make such a claim, it was probably because I wanted to show that the concept of the Messenger saying or doing something which is not mentioned about in the Quran is just plainly absurd.
I must apologize to you and the forum members whoever read this post if I have offended your belief in any way, for it was never my intention. I want to say that I will be careful next time I post something, but since I probably won't be posting anymore, as I have still have a lot to learn about the Quran, I'll just say thank you for your reply and peace.
P.S. - Why do you refer to yourselves as "Quran-Aloners", when, I believe, the appropriate term for the believers used in the Quran is eiter "Momineen" or "Muslim"? Again not meant to be offensive, just an afterthought. Salaam.
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P.S. - Why do you refer to yourselves as "Quran-Aloners", when, I believe, the appropriate term for the believers used in the Quran is eiter "Momineen" or "Muslim"? Again not meant to be offensive, just an afterthought.
Where did you see that?