Being Muslim prevents cancer?
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In the army, you might be forced to kill people, else you are killed for treason, specially under tyranic regimes like saddam's.
Same for prostitution, many young women are kidnapped from east europe and forced into prostitution, pornography, strip tease clubs, escort, etc else they get killed or left to die. -
Prostitution is not zina. How would you be forced into public sex?
How would you be forced to kill someone?What is prostitution. Could you expand that?
You may have a son or daughter or a father or a mother kidnapped and told theywill be killed if you don't do such and such a thing, which can be anything including killing someone, for instance. It may not be your everyday happening but that or somethign similar has happened, and certainly it may happen. In fact, anything can happen.
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In the army, you might be forced to kill people, else you are killed for treason, specially under tyranic regimes like saddam's.
Here will be the difference between one who strives in the cause of God and one who clings o this life. Moreover, a soldier knows he might as well get killed in the war, so life is not necessrily a guaranteed option if he accepts to kill people. And his life is not dearer than others' lives.
Same for prostitution, many young women are kidnapped
You may have a son or daughter or a father or a mother kidnapped
To you both I am not saying prostitution does not happen. These would be the best argument for such a statement. Why are you bringing "kidnapping" here? Think of an option you are faced with and you have to choose "prositution". Or maybe you think God included these people when He says in the quraan "And come not near faahishas whether committed secretly or openly" 6151?
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Here will be the difference between one who strives in the cause of God and one who clings o this life. Moreover, a soldier knows he might as well get killed in the war, so life is not necessrily a guaranteed option if he accepts to kill people. And his life is not dearer than others' lives.
To you both I am not saying prostitution does not happen. These would be the best argument for such a statement. Why are you bringing "kidnapping" here? Think of an option you are faced with and you have to choose "prositution". Or maybe you think God included these people when He says in the quraan "And come not near faahishas whether committed secretly or openly" 6151?
You said that prostitution was not zina, could you explain a little?
As to the kidnapping, well it is blackmail, you kill this person we tell you or we kill your son, for instance. It is not an everyday event. It is not the case with prostitution. Depending on circumsntances, the choice may become indeed very narrow, specially if you are a mother. I won't get into it, because I could spend the rest of my days writing here about it.
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You said that prostitution was not zina, could you explain a little?
As to the kidnapping, well it is blackmail, you kill this person we tell you or we kill your son, for instance. It is not an everyday event. It is not the case with prostitution. Depending on circumsntances, the choice may become indeed very narrow, specially if you are a mother. I won't get into it, because I could spend the rest of my days writing here about it.
zina is public sex, even between married people.
I agree with you in the case of threatening with killing someone. Even if not known to me, I will choose prostitution, but maybe not public sex, since the latter amounts to "corruption in the earth" or harming the whole society. If it is my life against another life, I will rather get murdered than save myself. It is a matter of choosing the least harmful to most people.
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Brother OPF,
When I read 2219, I see wisdom in that verse. We are being told the nature of intoxicants and gambling (Note that both these activities are in the same basket, i.e. they have the same nature, everywhere in the Book, not compared to one another). What I fail to grasp is how one can interpret "in them (intoxicants and gambling) is great sin and some benefits" as "most of them have great sin but some of them are beneficial". Rather if I pick up one intoxicant/form of gambling and ask you about it, would you say that this is wholly beneficial/wholly harmful or would you say in it is great sin and some benefits? Which one would be more in line with the Book? If you pick the latter, then 590 & 591 come into effect, don't they? Because we need to consider all the verses pertaining to intoxicants and gambling, not just 2219, in order to arrive at the final conclusion regarding them, i.e. including 590 & 591. But, if you pick the former, we also need to find out which forms of gambling are wholly beneficial since there must be some if they are the same in nature as the intoxicants, right?
Interest... how do you deduce that it is prohibited? Any input would be welcome on this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12997.msg152484#msg152484
Peace
Like what form of gambling? Gambling in a casino, MUST be weighted against the gamblers and towards the operators, or there won't be any profit? In that case, you have a certain "benefit" dictated by luck, and a greater sin, again, dictated by luck, and Murphy's law. So, some gamblers will definitely see benefit but the overwhelming majority just won't. Surely there would exist some intoxicants that are 90% beneficial (aspirin) within reason, some 10% (crack cocaine), some a mixture, and so on. Beneficial gambling, when I think of that, I'd think of the money market.
Interest... how do you deduce that it is prohibited? Any input would be welcome on this thread
With a certain level of interest, there's a certain point where if the person cannot increase their payments enough, you get stuck in debt more or less permanently and end up paying towards debt, decreasing your income/growth, paying more debt and so on, and it spirals out of control, and again, after a certain limit, the principal amount has been paid off, and it's just interest on interest on interest.
Remember that the quran says that falsehood/oppression and injustice is made clear for all to see, truth distinct from lies, and so on, and look here
http//www.africaaction.org/docs99/dbt9903b.htm
http//www.spinwatch.org/content/view/1532/9/In the quran there's the comparison with trade , of course. Then , can any person in a state of war with GOD be called a believer, or even worthy of mention? What about , God's balance is clear and in full measure, i.e. A=B, not "A=B + 5% APR". A current mortgage can result in interest taking up a ridiculous sum of the total, well above the original amount.
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Like what form of gambling? Gambling in a casino, MUST be weighted against the gamblers and towards the operators, or there won't be any profit? In that case, you have a certain "benefit" dictated by luck, and a greater sin, again, dictated by luck, and Murphy's law. So, some gamblers will definitely see benefit but the overwhelming majority just won't. Surely there would exist some intoxicants that are 90% beneficial (aspirin) within reason, some 10% (crack cocaine), some a mixture, and so on. Beneficial gambling, when I think of that, I'd think of the money market.
How about a friendly game of poker among friends? No "rigging" involved, no weights against gamblers etc. Still gambling, right? Why does gambling have to revolve around Casinoes only? How about the following conversation
Father A 100 dollars say that you won't get an A in math.
Son You're on... (Studies hard for the subject and gets the A)
Father Oh well, fair is fair. Here's the 100. Well done, son.
Son Thanks, Dad. Getting an A felt pretty good, you know. I should try it more often.I'd say both won in the above situation. (and no, I am still not in favour of gambling. I just wanted to get my point across that if someone says that there are some wholly beneficial intoxicants but says that there are no beneficial forms of gambling is probably speaking out of preconception. Either all forms of intoxicants and gambling have great sin but some benefit or some forms of intoxicants as well as gambling are wholly beneficial and the rest are totally sinful. I am leaning towards the former.)
With a certain level of interest, there's a certain point where if the person cannot increase their payments enough, you get stuck in debt more or less permanently and end up paying towards debt, decreasing your income/growth, paying more debt and so on, and it spirals out of control, and again, after a certain limit, the principal amount has been paid off, and it's just interest on interest on interest.
For my personal views on debt, please view the following post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12997.msg152484#msg152484
Remember that the quran says that falsehood/oppression and injustice is made clear for all to see, truth distinct from lies, and so on, and look here
http//www.africaaction.org/docs99/dbt9903b.htm
http//www.spinwatch.org/content/view/1532/9/In the quran there's the comparison with trade , of course. Then , can any person in a state of war with GOD be called a believer, or even worthy of mention? What about , God's balance is clear and in full measure, i.e. A=B, not "A=B + 5% APR". A current mortgage can result in interest taking up a ridiculous sum of the total, well above the original amount.
In 2275, "Al-Riba" is not compared with Trade ("Al-Bay
a". In fact, it is the other way around, which is very significant I believe, because of the ground realities. As per the Book, People who defend "Al-Riba" say that that "Al-Baya" (Trade/Business) is like "Al-Riba" (Interest), whereas in reality, people who defend interest actually say that Interest-based transactions is just normal Business, not Norma business is like Interest-based transactions.Also you said, A=B, right? How about Property? I actually live in a place where some people I know purchased a piece of residential land for 5,000,000, which in, 2 years time, grew to 40,000,000, and is still growing. So much for A=B. Property will always keep on escalating as long as population keeps growing, which is as natural a phenomenon as they come. So should owning a property constitute an Al-Riba transaction? Why should "the increase" be limited to gain on "money" (an asset) and not extended to gain on "land" (as asset)? Both are just sitting idle and gaining over a period of time.
Anyway, that is my personal understanding, in light of the Book. No offence was meant to anyone.
Peace.