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  4. What did Abraham do first? Break an idle or break an idol?

What did Abraham do first? Break an idle or break an idol?

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  • S Offline
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    Samia
    wrote on last edited by
    #41

    Salaams Samia,

    AVARICE
    Noun FORMAL
    an extremely strong desire to obtain or keep wealth; greed;
    her business empire brought her wealth beyond dreams of the avarice (= an extremely large amount of money).

    Sorry i am not very good with english but can we use "the" with nouns- in english?

    Salaam mz

    I said ("the" is strictly prefixed to nouns...). The statement is about "the", not nouns. In other words, if there is "the", the following word has to be a noun. Same with Arabic if there's a "al", the suffixed word has to be a noun.

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      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #42

      Salaam mz

      I said ("the" is strictly prefixed to nouns...). The statement is about "the", not nouns. In other words, if there is "the", the following word has to be a noun. Same with Arabic if there's a "al", the suffixed word has to be a noun.

      But all i am saying here now is avarice is a noun- so can it have a "the" if you say it can then shamsa which has the "Al" can be a noun as you have said, no?

      or am i lost a little.

      God Bless.

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        Samia
        wrote on last edited by
        #43

        But all i am saying here now is avarice is a noun- so can it have a "the" if you say it can then shamsa which has the "Al" can be a noun as you have said, no?

        or am i lost a little.

        God Bless.

        In the link you provided, "shamasa" is a verb, not noun. No such meaning, or any other than "sun" is linked to shams/ash-shams (al shams) which is als the root. There are many different meanings linked to derivatives of shams. Only one meaning for the root (shams/al shams), which appears in the verse.

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #44

          Because the only way i can imagine the quran is if these words weren't objects- i would say as the vowels were written hundreds of years after the actual quran - may be , well just may be they are incorrect or there is something we can't put finger on just yet.

          Thanks and God Bless Samia.

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            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #45

            Because the only way i can imagine the quran is if these words weren't objects- i would say as the vowels were written hundreds of years after the actual quran - may be , well just may be they are incorrect or there is something we can't put finger on just yet.

            Thanks and God Bless Samia.

            Or... It is saying what it says.

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              Samia
              wrote on last edited by
              #46

              Because the only way i can imagine the quran is if these words weren't objects- i would say as the vowels were written hundreds of years after the actual quran - may be , well just may be they are incorrect or there is something we can't put finger on just yet.

              Thanks and God Bless Samia.

              It's not about vowels. It's "al" which are two consonants, not vowels. This makes sh.m.a and q.m.r (put whatever vowel you want in the place of the dots) nouns/root of the word.

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                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #47

                Salaam mz

                I said ("the" is strictly prefixed to nouns...). The statement is about "the", not nouns. In other words, if there is "the", the following word has to be a noun. Same with Arabic if there's a "al", the suffixed word has to be a noun.

                .

                One of the universal rules of language is that "al the" is strictly prefixed to nouns only.

                I don't know what you are explaining now.

                These words given in the dictionary are Nouns and you are saying you can't use them unless they are Nouns.

                Why can't they have the "Al"= The, ?

                In English you can Dear;

                A few examples;

                and everything in the Avarice world is done using a mouse

                the truth the real facts about a situation, event or person
                But was he telling the truth?
                I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth about what happened that day.
                To tell (you) the truth (= Speaking honestly) I'm quite pleased he's not coming

                The deception that was used?.

                God Bless.

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                  mz
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #48

                  Or... It is saying what it says.

                  I can't agree.

                  1886
                  Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

                  2724
                  I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah; and Satan maketh their works fairseeming unto them, and debarreth them from the way (of Truth), so that they go not aright;

                  How on earth can one tell whether you are worshipping the sun or Allah- unless its to do with actions.

                  "sunset in the River Nile" - perfect sense. Say it as "sun sets in the river Nile" and there is an issue

                  We aught to have a voting topic on this issue.

                  Salaams.

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                    Samia
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #49

                    Salaam mz
                    Here is a summary of what I say.

                    You wrote

                    From lanes;
                    Qamara = to deceive/beguile/circumvent/desire to do evil without someone knowing
                    whence it proceeded.(p 2562)
                    Shamasa = enmity/Niggardly/tenacious/avaricious.

                    The meanings for the verbs exist.
                    It is clear that qamara and shamasa are both vebs. They are derived from the words sh-m-s and q-m-r, which are also roots.

                    You can also derive your own meanings from these two roots, because this is the way language grows and evolves; but you cannot attribute derived meanings back to the root. If "shamas (V)" means to have enmity for someone, we can not conclude that sh.m.s means enmity.

                    Example shahr means full moon; shaheera means pregnant woman (maybe because her tummy is like a shahr). We cannot deduce from this a new meaning for shahr = pregnancy.

                    In short, you can not attribute to the root a completely new meaning that arises with a word/pattern derived from it.

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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #50

                      If "shamas (V)" means to have enmity for someone, we can not conclude that sh.m.s means enmity.

                      enmity Show phonetics
                      noun
                      a feeling of hate
                      She denied any personal enmity towards him.
                      Bitter historical enmities underlie the present violence.

                      Do you mean;

                      Enmity isn?t shamas

                      As one is Noun(Enmity) and the other is a verb(Shamas)

                      Salaam.

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                        Samia
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #51

                        Yes. Because we have a noun "shams", and shamasa (which appears in the dictionary ) is a verb derived from "shams = sun"

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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #52

                          Yes. Because we have a noun "shams", and shamasa (which appears in the dictionary ) is a verb derived from "shams = sun"

                          Let me get this right;

                          So you have said Shamasa isn't emnity because one is a verb and the second is a Noun,yep?

                          And Lanes is saying the opposite that Shamasa is Emnity.

                          http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000321.pdf

                          Two opposing views from you and Lanes.

                          God Bless.

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                            Samia
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #53

                            Let me get this right;

                            So you have said Shamasa isn't emnity because one is a verb and the second is a Noun,yep?

                            And Lanes is saying the opposite that Shamasa is Emnity.

                            http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000321.pdf

                            Two opposing views from you and Lanes.

                            God Bless.

                            I am in agreement with Lane's

                            Lane's says to show one's emnity. So, according to Lane's, it is a verb.

                            There is a difference between Emnity (noun) and to show emnity (verb) especially when you want to put the word in the place of noun.

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #54

                              How on earth are you saying what you are saying?

                              Shamasa li fulaanun = such a one showed enmity to me, or showed enmity to my.

                              From the above statements enmity is Shamasa, therefore a noun.

                              look it up in any dictionary- and show me please.

                              You take it as you will, Thanks.

                              God Bless.

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                                Samia
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #55

                                How on earth are you saying what you are saying?

                                Shamasa li fulaanun = such a one showed enmity to me, or showed enmity to my.

                                From the above statements enmity is Shamasa, therefore a noun.

                                look it up in any dictionary- and show me please.

                                You take it as you will, Thanks.

                                God Bless.

                                Shamasa li fulaan

                                li to me
                                fulaan such a one
                                shamasa emnity
                                What about "showed"? Where did you get it from?

                                shamasa is showed emnity

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #56

                                  Sorry Samia,

                                  but that doesn't make enmity a verb.

                                  Enmity can only be shown you don't eat it and it isn't a verb.

                                  if you can show us in any book that "showed enmity" is a verb then that would be different.

                                  Thank you for everything but lets call it a day.

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