perhaps i am not a Muslim...
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I will do no such thing. I stand by what I said.
I said
no man is without sins.
I said
for this reason no man is in the position to judge another.
I say
the above is a teaching of Jesus that my inner knowledge recognizes as TRUTH.You may denounce this as false teaching if you feel the need, I will not demand retraction...
You better come off your high horses and refrain from demanding retraction whenever you see or hear something that is not included in your very limited knowledge system.
If you read te quran, then you know it says forgiveness is better than revenge/punishment, the latter merely being ALLOWED because of cultural conditions.
There is a great secret behind this
To judge/condemn other's sins is to put a LOCK on your door to heavens gate. It prevents you from entering it.
I do not seek my own destruction, but you may if you insist...We are living in a fallen world (that demands punishments).
The way out of it is to no longer play by its rules.
Your choice and free will decision. Not much time left.
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This is not about "going to the negative" This is about farida claiming SHE has been slandered when a reply was given to her question about having a second nikah with no talaq from the first nikah, and my reply that such conduct is adultery.
If a person posts a question in the abstract, the reply is in the abstract. If a person posts a question in the person, the reply is to the person. False protests do not put out the light of Allah with that persons mouth.
Allah separates the truth from falsehood.
Salaam everyone
I would lke, in the interest of this forum, for you to see for yourselves how deluded this man is. I am addressing him as A-A because he does not live up to his name and has sunk very low as we all can see.Salam dotty. Allah decides what is disgraceful and not any human being.
If Farida had kept her question in the abstract, there would not have been a problem.
This is what he is saying see below my simple/abstract question
? Reply #15 on August 12, 2008, 073345 PM
So is there no way out for a woman whose husband does not divorce her properly?
I know of other cases where a husband tricked the wife and made her sign a divorce paper, and then he just disappeared without announcing the divorce. Now the woman who has no children and who was married to him for around 19 years is wondering about her material status. Her Sunni mosque have offered to act as an arbitrator saying that they can grant her divorce even if they cannot contact him. Are they wrong?There is clearly a disease in A-A's mind that he replies in this manner
A-ASalam farida. There are always three sides to a story. The side from the complainant, the side from the respondent, and the most important side the truth.
You give us a completely one sided story, the other party has not had an opportunity to present their side of the story, and on this basis you expect rational people to form conclusions? That is utter nonsense.
Your story does not hold up under examination. You allege a husband tricked a wife into signing divorce papers. Allah's hudood requires the husband to go through the proper steps, first the arbitration, then the talaq issued in stages with the proper time intervals. There is no tricking a grown adult into signing papers. If the person is so weak minded they cannot avoid a "trick" they have no business claiming they were tricked. The presumption is a person has to look out for their own interests, and if they fail to do so, there is nobody who can protect them from their own stupidity. This trick wont be their only problem. Next the allegation is he just disappeared, It is unreasonable to expect anyone to believe this rubbish, you would have us believe that this woman got married to a stranger off the street, whom she never knew, she did no investigation as to his background, friends, and family, and somehow he vanished into thin air. Nothing could be more implausible. Next you claim a sunni mosque says they can issue a divorce. Given that last statement any reasonable person would believe that is not a mosque, not a sunni mosque, it is some sort of racket run by charlatans. Read the Quran, do you see any authority for such a claim?
The whole story is riddled with completely implausible scenarios, most likely the construction of a person who is mentally ill. My take on the story is, we have a woman who has taken off on her own after 19 years of marriage, has concocted this story of being tricked to elicit sympathy, and is looking for someone to be taken in by her fanciful story.
The short answer is the mosque is utterly wrong. They can neither issue a talaq, nor have they ever had the authority under the hudood to ever issue a talaq.
Allah sends down the distinction.
I ask why couldn?t he simply give the short answer underlined above(blue) and put his suspicious mind working on the whole issue when I simply asked a question? As you can see the bolded section he kept on saying that I am claiming all this which according to him ."..Nothing could be more implausible
"
In the fourth para he came back with his kind of reasonable conclusion (see above green).I was very upset when I read this, as for the last eight months, I have been watching this woman suffering. She is left her with huge debts and the bailiff was on her doorstep before she realised what had happend. So my husband replied and said
My wife will not deign to reply to your harangue so I feel obliged to assert the truthfulness of the story that my wife very conscientiously told. You on the other hand have based your reply on thin air and assumptions. My wife and I knew the couple well and were shocked but not wholly surprised to learn what had happened. BTW it transpired that he had also been married to another woman that he also left without a proper divorce and went on to marry a 3rd woman. It's not important whether or not you believe what my wife wrote, by your demeanor I can tell that you're not a person I could respect or want any further dealings with
Here my husband clearly told him that this is no concocted story and we know that couple but he still was blind to the possibility of any harm having been done to this woman and replied
Salam farida's husband. You claim that you are entitled to assert the truthfulness of your wife's story. Your very response demonstrates the truth is NOT being told. Farida says "then he just disappeared" you on the other hand claim "BTW it transpired that he had also been married to another woman that he also left without a proper divorce and went on to marry a third woman"
f he disappeared you would have no information as to his marriages. however, you claim knowledge of his third marriage. At first glance it appears either you or your wife is not telling the truth, either he has disappeared and you know nothing, or he has not dissapeared and you know about him and his third marriage. These posts do not pass the smell test.
If the gentleman had married one woman, went on to marry another woman, then married a third woman, all three without giving any one of them a talaq, this gentleman is well within the hudood, he has a right accorded to him by Allah to have more than one wife. To speak ill of his conduct is gheebat, his conduct is that of a momin.
However, if one of his wives did not recieve a talaq, and has taken up with another man, then that wife is an adulterer under any definition of the word.If my demeanor is that of a person you cannot respect, the demeanor of a person who sumbits to Allah, my answer to you is very simple. You have no respect to give anyone being daeef. My respect comes from Allah and Allah alone
.Can you all see how A-A, without knowing the whole story, asserts that the "gentleman" is a Momin and it's gheebat to talk to talk of him in an ill manner..but that he can see its most likely the construction of a person who is mentally ill. Although in my post I never said that the woman remarried but he comes with his verdict .."one of his wives did not recieve a talaq, and has taken up with another man, then that wife is an adulterer under any definition of the word.
He is insisting thatFarida identified HERSELF personally as the woman in question, when SHE claimed she had been slandered. I made no "going to the negative" FARIDA made the identification herself.
I invite everyone to read all the posts and tell me where did I identify myself as that woman I said to him I brought you this question and ... so I am mentally ill and the woman (ie my friend) he says this "we have a woman who has taken off on her own after 19 years of marriage, has concocted this story of being tricked to elicit sympathy, and is looking for someone to be taken in by her fanciful story."
Without her permission I could not give anymore confidential information.
You called him within hudood, "a momin" who takes one wife after another and has not been maitaining his wives by giving them their financial and sexual rights and then you go on to talk about the demeanor of a person who sumbits to Allah. You did not believe me when I told you a short problem but you quickly qualified this person whom you don't know as a momin. By yourself you judge others so maybe he's your kind.of "momins".
He did not reply so I chased him on other thread and in the next posts with permission from my friend I disclosed how the first wife and third wife met and confronted him again; again he had no reply and when I asked him how come this double standard he came out with his dirty mind to conclude that I am an adulterer. The rest is all in his reply above.
I ask anyone to tell me was not my first post short and abstract? So why did he came up with his understanding of story and after uttering all sorts of filth gave his reply. The short answer is the mosque is utterly wrong. They can neither issue a talaq, nor have they ever had the authority under the hudood to ever issue a talaq.
It is his sick mind that makes him see me as that person even though i wrote clearly that the woman has no children and, alhumdullilah I am a mother of lovely children.
However, she is backbiting her husband, claiming his actions are evil, when in fact the actions she claims are evil are well within the limits for a momin. Then farida attempted to blackmail me into silence with a device, which was to claim she had been wronged by me. Whereas, I demonstrated her claim of wrong is false, there is no slander, and her claims of slander are libellious.
Reading his post me and my husband and my sons can only laugh at him; may Allah erase the influence of Satan from his mind.
peace
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Salam nun de plume. Deuteronomy identifies certain classes of persons, their actions, and the punishment for their actions.
The post was a reply to samia's question. Samia asked me to provide the hudood of Allah regarding stoning in the case of a married woman who "marries" another man. I quoted the RELEVANT verse identifying the class of persons under discussion.
Deuteronomy 2223 did not identify the class of persons under discussion. Thank you for your question.
Peace Al Araf,
Yes it did -- read it, who is being stoned below and what "class of persons" is a damsel, a virgin?
23 'When there is a damsel, a virgin, betrothed to a man, and a man hath found her in a city, and lain with her; 24 then ye have brought them both out unto the gate of that city, and stoned them with stones, and they have died -- the damsel, because that she hath not cried, being in a city; and the man, because that he hath humbled his neighbour's wife; and thou hast put away the evil thing out of thy midst.
What does zina encompass and what "class of persons" are the verses below (in context) addressing, only single people?
241-3 A chapter of the Quran, We descended it, and We made it a duty/commanded it, and We descended in it verses/evidences evidences, maybe/perhaps you mention/remember. The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. The adulterer/fornicator does not marry except an the adulteress/fornicatress or a sharer/taker of partners (with God), and the adulteress/fornicatress, none marries her except an adulterer/fornicator or sharer/taker of partners (with God), and that (was) forbidden on the believers.
Wala taqraboo alzzina innahu kana fahishatan wasaa sabeelan
1732 And do not approach/near the adultery/fornication, that it truly was/is an enormous/atrocious deed, and a bad/evil/harmful way/path.Hopefully we don't go into ridiculous hadith about hungry goats and Quran being incomplete missing verses.
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Salam nun de plume. You are confusing two classifications.
Deuteronomy 2222 class of women who are married found laying with another man. Deuteronomy 2223 class of women who are virgins and engaged found laying with another man. Two different classes of women.
The woman under discussion IS MARRIED, and NOT A VIRGIN. Stop yourself. Think. MARRIED and NOT A VIRGIN. You citation is irrelevant to the issue that was under discussion. You are confused. To continuously cite the classification of a virgin is a waste of time. Please stop yourself.
If you continue to harp on the issue of a virgin I will not respond, as I have already responded.
Allah is the light.
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Farida identified HERSELF personally as the woman in question, when SHE claimed she had been slandered. I made no "going to the negative" FARIDA made the identification herself.
If Farida had kept her question in the abstract, there would not have been a problem. However, she is backbiting her husband, claiming his actions are evil, when in fact the actions she claims are evil are well within the limits for a momin. Then farida attempted to blackmail me into silence with a device, which was to claim she had been wronged by me. Whereas, I demonstrated her claim of wrong is false, there is no slander, and her claims of slander are libellious.
Al... This is only in YOUR mind! Go back and read it correctly.
No, this can be used in only one scenario;
It simply means to imply that since no man is without sin, no man shall condemn another for it. Period.Exactly anders. My point was that one can say this in regards to ANY sin... not just adultary.
Peace
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Salam nun de plume. You are confusing two classifications.
Deuteronomy 2222 class of women who are married found laying with another man. Deuteronomy 2223 class of women who are virgins and engaged found laying with another man. Two different classes of women.
The woman under discussion IS MARRIED, and NOT A VIRGIN. Stop yourself. Think. MARRIED and NOT A VIRGIN. You citation is irrelevant to the issue that was under discussion. You are confused. To continuously cite the classification of a virgin is a waste of time. Please stop yourself.
If you continue to harp on the issue of a virgin I will not respond, as I have already responded.
Peace Al Araf,
I'm not confused and only asked you simple questions which you first replied?
Deuteronomy 2223 did not identify the class of persons under discussion.
Then you state?
Deuteronomy 2223 class of women who are virgins and engaged found laying with another man.
Therefore the above are single women to be stoned. That is bible; I follow Quran, so again what does zina encompass and what "class of persons" are the verses below (in context) addressing, only single people?
241-3 A chapter of the Quran, We descended it, and We made it a duty/commanded it, and We descended in it verses evidences, maybe/perhaps you mention/remember. The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. The adulterer/fornicator does not marry except an the adulteress/fornicatress or a sharer/taker of partners (with God), and the adulteress/fornicatress, none marries her except an adulterer/fornicator or sharer/taker of partners (with God), and that (was) forbidden on the believers.
Wala taqraboo alzzina innahu kana fahishatan wasaa sabeelan
1732 And do not approach/near the adultery/fornication, that it truly was/is an enormous/atrocious deed, and a bad/evil/harmful way/path.Allah is the light.
Then what is punishment for zina (adultery and fornication) according to Quran?
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Salam huruf. The penalty for making a false accusation of sin, includes lashes, and a prohibition against accepting your testimony.
Allah is the mighty judge.
Salaam all
I am writing this in the middle of a busy Monday just to inform all reading posts on this forum that I spent long time on my Reply #81 on Yesterday (at 103818 PM) to provide proof that Al-Araf falsely accused me of sin.
I know that it is better to forgive but for the benefit of all I want to practice what he preaches
I would therefore ask AL_Araf to get ready to receive the lashes (Taliban style I?m sure the western media would love this news)
And moderators to make note that his testimony is prohibited.peace
PS I have full permission of my friend to disclose more information including how she was tricked into signing divorce papers If anyone wants to know more please let me know and I would happy to give further details -
Salaam, Afridi,
A reason for it?
If you press the one under my name I will disappear in thin air and you won?t be able to see my posts if you want to ignore some one just don?t reply, if many peoples ignore some one in this way he will be ban from this forum.
Any ways you can UN ignore it again if you wish so angel -
Al-Araf falsely accused me of sin
The question is 'so what'?
Why should you be upset to hear the opinion of those who worship their own limited stone age view of stone age texts?
Leave them in peace and do not seek their approval. You don't need it!!
It's you and your creator. The rest is irrelevant, no matter how loud they shout.You do yourself an enormous disservice by descending into this bottomless mud pool filled with arrogance, fanaticism, intolerance and the worst form of idolatry bibliolatry.
Such descent separates you from your creator, it causes you to get out of sync, wrongly tuned.Ascend again, leave this darkness behind and reconnect in joy and gratitude your inner modem with the divine.
No time to loose. NOW is the time to get/stay tuned and receive.
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The question is 'so what'?
Why should you be upset to hear the opinion of those who worship their own limited stone age view of stone age texts?
Leave them in peace and do not seek their approval. You don't need it!!
It's you and your creator. The rest is irrelevant, no matter how loud they shout.You do yourself an enormous disservice by descending into this bottomless mud pool filled with arrogance, fanaticism, intolerance and the worst form of idolatry bibliolatry.
Such descent separates you from your creator, it causes you to get out of sync, wrongly tuned.Ascend again, leave this darkness behind and reconnect in joy and gratitude your inner modem with the divine.
No time to loose. NOW is the time to get/stay tuned and receive.
.1591 The ones who have taken the Qur?an as obsolete.
1592 By your Lord, We will ask them all.
1593 Regarding what they use to do.
1594 So proclaim what you have been commanded and turn away from those who set up partners.
1595 We will relieve you from those who mocked.
1596 Those who placed with God another god. They will come to know.
1597 And We know that your chest is strained by what they say.
1598 So glorify with the praise of your Lord, and be of those who prostrate.
1599 And serve your Lord until certainty comes to you. -
The question is 'so what'?
Why should you be upset to hear the opinion of those who worship their own limited stone age view of stone age texts?
Leave them in peace and do not seek their approval. You don't need it!!
It's you and your creator. The rest is irrelevant, no matter how loud they shout.You do yourself an enormous disservice by descending into this bottomless mud pool filled with arrogance, fanaticism, intolerance and the worst form of idolatry bibliolatry.
Such descent separates you from your creator, it causes you to get out of sync, wrongly tuned.Ascend again, leave this darkness behind and reconnect in joy and gratitude your inner modem with the divine.
No time to loose. NOW is the time to get/stay tuned and receive.
.Salaam,
I think you got it wrong A-A's opinion does not matter at all to me, I just wanted him to practice what he preaches.
Its men like him who have given bad name to Islam they are the one who discriminate against women and insist on forcing their narrow minded view of the scriptures.
I invite you Anders to read the Qur'an which I see as most contemporary text and if you read it with good intentions you will have many doors open to you.peace
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You did use the word ?upset?, and ?wanting? to change a persons behaviour is also a need.
I suggested to leave this behind, it keeps you imprisoned in the matrix you seek to escape from.
Let go and let god.I did read the quran, and the bible and other books.
The Bhagavad Gita is my favourite, I agree with the widely held view that it is of exceptional quality.
As far as the core values are concerned, I find them best expressed in the bible, in spite political influence that gave it its final content.In order to know whether the quran is ?the best? (for you), you need to have read a handful of others. Did you?
As for me, no thank you. I read it and feel no need for further reading. Except perhaps for the sake of discussion.
My sources now are nature, the only book god ever wrote himself, and my personal connection with my creator.
The nice thing about these sources is that they can not be tampered with and use a language far superior to human languages, which are languages belonging to the matrix we are meant to escape from.On my travels I met many really good and peace loving people including children who had never heard of any holy book but new from within what is the right thing to do and spontaneously lived accordingly. They also knew there is one source/maker of everything.
My point that which people seek is inside of us but made invisible by ?teachings? .
Why wade trough an endless series of often violent texts and interpretations, needing to make impossible U-turns to explain away violent verses, if we have the Truth built in?Never mind, soon all this will become apparent thanks to divine planning that says the time is up for all this confusion .
Just keep your inner antenna directed.
In 25 years from now there will be no more religions and no more bibliolatry as we know it now.
Before that, many changes.I welcome the new era that will bring changes beyond belief.
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You did use the word ?upset?,
Peace Anders,
Please re-read my reply 81. I was upset for my friend ".. I was very upset when I read this, as for the last eight months, I have been watching this woman suffering. She is left with huge debts and the bailiff was on her doorstep before she realised what had happened."
and ?wanting? to change a persons behaviour is .
This does not mean A_A?s behaviour. Yes there is a need to fully discuss this issue because many women, like my friend, have been tricked by s. c. Muslim men behaving badly.
also a need
Yes there is a need to expose supporters like A-A, who encourage men to violate the system(Deen) by calling a con artist a ? Momin?(true believer)
I suggested to leave this behind, it keeps you imprisoned in the matrix you seek to escape from.
Let go and let god.You suggestion is most welcome, but you have said nothing new. If you read reply 90 from aalmakto you'll see that he has cited for you all that you said from the Qur'an including
1594 So proclaim what you have been commanded and turn away from those who set up partners...(if you notice here A-A was passing judgement as if he is partner to God)I did read the quran, and the bible and other books.
I know from your post that you have read the Qur'an, but may be with a intention to find faults in it. -\
The Bhagavad Gita is my favourite, I agree with the widely held view that it is of exceptional quality.
As far as the core values are concerned, I find them best expressed in the bible, in spite political influence that gave it its final contenthmm you do have a favourite and I knew that Bhagavad Gita is the one that taught you to seek god within your self and god lives within you...
In order to know whether the quran is ?the best? (for you), you need to have read a handful of others. Did you?
Well, alhumdullilah, I do have some knowledge of other scriptures; you can see for yourself what I wrote with regards to the prophecies in Bhagavad Gita
Re What's up with these Hadith/Prophecies about the End of Times?
? Reply #74 on August 10, 2008, 120226 PM ?Hindu religion is based on the caste system, Varna and jati and Brahmans, believed to have Caucasian origin,(Swan) are considered the highest caste and Dalits, sometimes called Untouchables, who are of black colour (crows) like Bedouins, considered commoners. Eating pearls, as opposed to eating grain, refers to indulgence.
It could be that Raam was one of the unnamed prophets, as some of his teaching is similar to the messages of other prophets. Others are completely distorted. So should you start following Raam?s teachings when you have the Qur?an?
As for me, no thank you. I read it and feel no need for further reading. Except perhaps for the sake of discussion.
That is your loss
My sources now are nature, the only book god ever wrote himself, and my personal connection with my creator
Absolutely!!1
3021 And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts) verily in that are Signs for THOSE WHO REFLECTThe nice thing about these sources is that they can not be tampered with and use a language far superior to human languages, which are languages belonging to the matrix we are meant to escape from
- Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them
30 29. Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?
30 31. Seest thou not that the ships sail through the ocean by the Grace of Allah.- that He may show you of His Signs? Verily in this are Signs for all who constantly persevere and give thanks.
On my travels I met many really good and peace loving people including children who had never heard of any holy book but new from within what is the right thing to do and spontaneously lived accordingly. They also knew there is one source/maker of everything.
My point that which people seek is inside of us but made invisible by ?teachings?4913 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and TRIBES, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
Why wade trough an endless series of often violent texts and interpretations, needing to make impossible U-turns to explain away violent verses, if we have the Truth built in?
If only you cleanse your heart of malice you would find all that you believe is in the teachings of the Qur?an and I feel you are looking for the truth so seek it and you would find it. God (the truth) is nearer to you than your jugular vain.
Never mind, soon all this will become apparent thanks to divine planning that says the time is up for all this confusion
handshake
Just keep your inner antenna directed.
Exactly!!!! hail
In 25 years from now there will be no more religions and no more bibliolatry as we know it now.
Before that, many changes.30 34. Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).
I welcome the new era that will bring changes beyond belief.
bravo
And all that would remain will be the attributes of Allah. -
I know from your post that you have read the Qur'an, but may be with a intention to find faults in it.
Now you hurt my feelings. '(you do have a favourite and I knew that Bhagavad Gita is the one that taught you to seek god within your self and god lives within you...
Not only the gita. The message is all over the place for those who have eyes to see. Mythology, Socrates, Dante, Shakespeare, many many others and yes, the quran too. yes
It is the sad story of mankind that we are still not able to see it, have not yet reached that evolutionary stage. But as I said, help is on the way?in a spectacular way.If only you cleanse your heart of malice you would find all that you believe is in the teachings of the Qur?an and I feel you are looking for the truth so seek it and you would find it.
Now you did it again! '( '(God (the truth) is nearer to you than your jugular vain.
YES, he even closer than any book can be; he lives within me.
That?s why I stress to turn inward. Only there you will hear him. Studying sign posts or books is fine, but you are supposed to leave them behind in order to reach that which they refer to.
The inner promised land is infinitely more beautiful than the sign post in the outer desert that directs to it.Hindu religion is based on the caste system,
That?s like saying islam is based on circumcision! rotfl -
Now you hurt my feelings. '(
I did put -\ to avoid hurt.
Not only the gita. The message is all over the place for those who have eyes to see. Mythology, Socrates, Dante,
Shakespeare, many many others and yes, the quran too. yes
It is the sad story of mankind that we are still not able to see it, have not yet reached that evolutionary stage. But as I said, help is on the way?in a spectacular way.Of course Shakespeare and Newton were often writing in harmony with the teaching of the Qur'an and I suspect both had read the Qur'an as the translation from Arabic was available in the 16th Century. As you read my quote above Raam could be one of the prophets, as every nation had its prophet, not to forget Socrates and Aristotle's. BTW I'll be posting more now, in another thread, to show how Greek Mythology had similar concepts.
Now you did it again! '( '(YES, he even closer than any book can be; he lives within me.
That?s why I stress to turn inward. Only there you will hear him. Studying signposts or books is fine, but you are supposed to leave them behind in order to reach that which they refer to.
The inner promised land is infinitely more beautiful than the signpost in the outer desert that directs to it.I think you are on a quest for the truth, and if only you read the Quran to seek truth you would find it. Just glance back at the beautiful verses I cited in my last reply to you; don't ignore it; read it with pure intentions and recognise your thoughts there.
That?s like saying islam is based on circumcision! rotfl
But if you only notice so called violence in the Qur'an than why do you laugh when I said the Hindu relegion is based on the cast system?
peace
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Of course Shakespeare and Newton were often writing in harmony with the teaching of the Qur'an and I suspect both had read the Qur'an as the translation from Arabic was available in the 16th Century
!!!! Since both lived in the Christian part of the world it Is much more likely they read the bible.
But in fact they belonged to secret lodges that (claim to) preserve Truth since Sumerian times, away from the inquisitive and suppressive power hungry mass religions.
Newton even was the grand master. Hence their knowledge.I think you are on a quest for the truth, but if only you did not read the Quran with malice you would notice its beautiful verses,
Again, I did not read with malice.
I don?t need to because I don?t care about books but respect other people?s need for it.
Books, because of the limitation of human language, can contain only a shadow of the Truth they refer to, which is to be found in its full glory in nature and in our inner connection to our creator.
Why worship a sign post if you already know where the promised land is located?
Why look at the map if you already know the way?
Anyway, I feel the quran is more about (social) rules and regulation for THIS world, as a way toward a spiritual life.
Other holy books (e.g. Gita) do it the other way around they more focus on spiritual life, in the know that THIS world will follow, is an expression of it.
Logically, the latter approach is for the more spiritually sensitive. Do not forget that that part of the world has a spiritual tradition that is 3000 years older than ours.And yes, despite the loss in translation ( I do not read Arabic) I did get a sense of the beauty of many verses.
But that?s not the point.
To see my point, simply observe how a large portion of the muslim world took/takes their pick and chooses to follow verses that they feel instruct them to commit atrocities and are absolutely convinced to do the right thing.This is simply a world wide recognized problem I observe and try to explain, in order to find and offer suggestions that may be helpful.
Another inconsistency
Muslims who belief the islam is a religion of piece must logically consider the opposite claim the worst possible offence.
Moslims who commit atrocities in the name of islam commit such offence.
Why is it that there is never a fatwa or whatever against them, but always against westerners who satirically and only in words/images express their disagreement?There is a serious denial problem, also observable on this forum, that suggest approval and results in a credibility problem.
If a member of your family spoils the reputation of your family, would you not deal with that family member?
If it is a member of your neighbours family that causes you problems and that family turns a deaf ear when you complain, would you not conclude that the whole family is ?like that??
Of course you would.
Likewise, do not complain when the westerners qualify in the same indiscriminate manner the ?muslim family?.
So please, do not cheaply accuse me of malice or muslim/quran bashing, what I do is offer suggestions that may be helpful in dealing with that credibility problem and at the same time squeeze in some info that I feel offers a shorter route to the ?promised land?.
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!!!! Since both lived in the Christian part of the world it Is much more likely they read the bible.
But in fact they belonged to secret lodges that (claim to) preserve Truth since Sumerian times, away from the inquisitive and suppressive power hungry mass religions.
Newton even was the grand master. Hence their knowledge.Again, I did not read with malice.Please read more in depth about Newton and his later approach to seeking truth.
I see lot of contradictions in your view so I am not going to address it you check that yourself.To see my point, simply observe how a large portion of the muslim world took/takes their pick and chooses to follow verses that they feel instruct them to commit atrocities and are absolutely convinced to do the right thing.
This is simply a world wide recognized problem I observe and try to explain, in order to find and offer suggestions that may be helpful.
Are You! Replacing Bush?
Another inconsistency
Muslims who belief the islam is a religion of piece must logically consider the opposite claim the worst possible offence.
Moslims who commit atrocities in the name of islam commit such offence.
Why is it that there is never a fatwa or whatever against them, but always against westerners who satirically and only in words/images express their disagreement?There is a serious denial problem, also observable on this forum, that suggest approval and results in a credibility problem.
If a member of your family spoils the reputation of your family, would you not deal with that family member?
If it is a member of your neighbours family that causes you problems and that family turns a deaf ear when you complain, would you not conclude that the whole family is ?like that??
Of course you would.
Likewise, do not complain when the westerners qualify in the same indiscriminate manner the ?muslim family?You are driven by mass media.
do not cheaply accuse me of malice
That hurts (
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Please read more in depth about Newton and his later approach to seeking truth.
The fact that what I say about Newton's sources contradicts mass media and fraudulent history telling does not make it false. Why don't you just say you did not come across this info in the official sources? Then I could have simply replied that's why these lodges are called secret.
Anyway, this is not an important issue. I just thought it was so typical and illogical to assume that great western minds MUST have had the quran as their source. Really!
Science and knowledge in general was once very advanced and has always been guarded by secret lodges and available to the shadowy powers that rule the world affairs from behind the scenes, denying the sheeple access to it.
Yes, this contradicts official history....and I praudly admit it.I see lot of contradictions in your view so I am not going to address it you check that yourself.
Easy to say, more difficult to show. I assume you mean contradiction with fraudulent official history.Are You! Replacing Bush?
He and his likes may be behind the strategy to provoke muslims to blow themselves up in the midst of civilians including children, it really is those deluded ones who choose to do it. To mention just one example. The issues here are taking personal responsibility and the response from within the muslim community/family. Or rather the absence of them.
You are in denial.You are driven by mass media.
Are you referring to the sources of your romantic and incomplete Newton history? )
If you must know, I do not read news papers nor do I listen/watch radio and tv.
The little I do get to see always makes me marvel at the fact that massive brain washing is so blatantly obvious, yet goes unnoticed by the sheeple.
When I travel in foreign cultures I do follow the media occasionally, as an antidote and means to better understand the 'foreign sheeple'.