Science Defied
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I am sorry Amin74,
But I have just gone through part of that site - a few pages and have found many discrepancies that has stopped me from going any further.
I have just visited the place where he is advocating for the five time prayers - I was trying to come to conclusively learn about this in my own time and so wehn I saw his page with references I felt finally at peace for this opportunity presenting itself.
So I went on his series of references that supposedly confirm the differnet timings of the prayers - to my horror I found that the verses actually did not support the timings as he is advocating!!!
Khidr says
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr in Arabic) , given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
(4) The Sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458O.k dawn prayer (1) and sunset prayer (4) is accepted - no problem 11;114 and establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night.two ends of day meaning the start and end of daylight and approaches of the night meaning just before the onset of darkest periods of the night (e.g some point between sunset and 12 am??) So alltogether it can be understood as three prayers.
But the noon prayer 17;78 At the sun's decline till the darkness of the night. Immediately what came to mind is the time of sunset prayer because if that be the noon (zuhr) prayer then after the sun starts starting to decline as in say 12pm until the darkness of the night that being well after sunset - then that would be a whole afternoon gone and a very lengthy noon prayer indeed!
30;17-18 So give glory to Allah when ye reach eventide and when ye rise in the morning. Yea to Him be praise in the Heavens and on earth and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline. 19. It is he who brings out the living from the dead.
Give glory - meaning remember and praise God - I don't think it is specificly referencing the timed salat or prayers. Eventide - meaning when we retire? rise in the morniing - meaning when we rise from our sleep? The next sentence Yea to Him be praise to me appears to indicate that the assets to follow in the sentence do also praise God - IN the heavens and on earth - the late afternoon and the sunset. The paragraph does not appear to indicate for us to do the timed salat at those times - just that the possibility that praise may be offered when we see those signs of God at those events - or that the natural events or creations in themselves are acts of praising God.
2238 Guard strictly your prayers especially the middle prayer.... Again according to the first verse referenced earlier for dawn (11;114 ) - where we have the two prayers at the start and end of the day and then the night prayer - the middle prayer in this case would pertain to the sunset prayer as opposed to an actual asr prayer?
2458 ...and after the late night prayer. - this would be pertaining to the third prayer to be observed at the appraoches of the night?
Khidr then goes on to say
As you can see from the Qur'aan, Allah tells us to do our salaat at specific times, and then He tells us what these times are.
{2} TAKBEER (Glorification of Allah), Allahu Akbar The Takbeer (glorification of Allah) by saying Allahu Akbar for example can be found in 17111, 2185, 22 37, 743, and 2945
HUH??? Actually I went through each of those references looking for Allluhu Akbar - and I did not find the words written there in arabic at all - I found the arabic words kabir and takbeer as decriptives fitting certain messages but nowhere did I find it specifically telling us to say Allahu Akbar or even the arabic term itself was not there. In the last reference 29;45 it does say akbar - but uses it to say that remeberence of Allah is the greatest - it is akbar - it does not give instructions for us to say akbar.
Please could someone correct me on all this if I am indeed wrong on this and show me where I am wrong.
Then Khidr says
WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE BOW DOWN "Subhana Rabbya Al-Azeem), can be found in 5674
"You shall glorify the name of your Lord, The Great. ' (Fa-Sabbeh Be-Ism Rabbika Al-Azeem)
Generally I agree with praising the Lord whilst doing salat - but I looked up the reference and it does not anywhere mention about bowing down - it just gives a command to praising the Lord. There is no specific instruction for how that phrase is to be used - as what khidr appears to be saying.
Again same with the rest of it that I have pasted below - there are no specific instructions on the method of salat in his referenced verses - so at this point I just really went no further in wasting my time - but it was useful exercise for me for better understanding what actually is or what actually is not the process of salat - after having read so much about it on this site. Currently I think I am in agreement with
humbling oneself with necessary preparation
reading/reciting verses from the Quran/understanding them - but at first seeking protection of God (as requested to do so in the Quran) through the last 2 verses of the Quran which start with the sentence 'I seek refuge ......' and then surah al fatihah and then whatever else surahs in teh Quran - for either inspiration or for learning by heart and remembering.
Next when ready for the process of salat itself - standing and reciting surah alfatihah with meaning and intention - don't ask me how I know this recital to be conclusive in the salat - I don't - it just feels right - almost as though it be the mother of all the message contained in the Quran.
bowing , prostrating and standing and praising God throughout for aslong as it feels right/appropriate
offering some heartfelt prayer logically speaking this would include - in terms of prayer verses from the Quran/personal requests and personal communion with God
I have found the indications for such a process (apart from the specific saying of Alfatihah) and if anyone wants to know I can present the places of evidence for this.
here's some more of what Khidr said before I switched off
WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE GET UP FROM BOWING DOWN "Sami-a Allahu Li-man Hamidahu" (Allah hears those who praise Him)
"That is when Zachariah implored his Lord "My Lord, grant me such a good child; You are The Hearer of the prayers."
AND
"You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out your Lord's command - you are in our eyes - and glorify and praise your Lord when you get up."
WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE FALL PROSTRATE "Subhaana Rabbya Al-A'alaa " can be found in 871
"Glorify the name of your Lord, the Most High." (Sabbeh Ism Rabbika Al-A'alaa)
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JK - may be you have not seen evidence - but I beleive have. The evidence was my experience - but so I can not prove it to you - just as you can not prove that God exists to an atheist.
6104 Now We have come to you from your Lord, proofs; if any will see, it will be for his own soul. If any will be blind it will be to his own.....this do We explain the signs by various that they may say thou hast learnt this and then we make make the matter clear to those who know.
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Peace "humandesign",
I would NEVER rely on my own experience alone. Infact thats when chaos starts and ppl start claing GOD, GOD forbid, commanded them xyz and they break laws and become criminals. You need to verify your experiences with external sources in order to be certain. And if you beleive you really have some sort of this ability you should not hide it from anyone if your honest. In that case you appy at the JREF who have their departments throughout the world and get yourself tested. The point is that these claims your making HAVE ALREADY BEEN TESTED numerous times under controlled conditions and NONE have shown any signficant results. If someone has please inform me. GOD Bless! -
Please first get your JREF to test about God and prove His existence as so many claim to know God.
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And Jk - the other thing is whenever you are talking to me - I feel that you are actually talking to someone else - that you have not really heard me - but are assuming that I am that I am a certain category of person that you may have met at some point in your life - because my story and what you are saying just don't add up.
I didn't say that I had some ability (though of course some people might - but you want to deny that possiblity unless it's stamp of approval be given to you by your friend) I just had an experience that led me to where I am right now - the path of the Quran. I sought to investigate the matter and what I found made common sense and Quranic sense. Your JREF most doubtedly will not find it conclusive - but that does not mean science is able to prove everything that is possible to God.
If I wanted to I could write a whole story on that chapter of my life - but I really am not concerned about proving that it did happen to anyone - just in promoting the lessons I was able to learn from it.
If you can not believe in your own experiences - then I'm sorry - you are lost and blind - because first and foremost you must have faith in yourself in order to hold integrity with the world. If you are without faith in yourself then I would really encourage you to look at what you can do to restore having faith in yourself.
It is the way of the 'modern' world to say that your feelings/impressions are nonsense and you do not know who you are. But it is really our feelings, and impressions that are the means to truth.
If you need to look at outside sources for verification of your unique experiences - then you are cut off from knowing yourself, the Universe and the work of Gabriel. And the only way out is through illness - the sin created for ignoring the natural messages and signs of God.. I am sorry to have to say all of this but I must speak what I beleive in to be true. God does not require the Quran to have to talk to us - His signs are everywhere for all to see..and expereince.
And perhaps it is possible that some people may have more of a natural ability to receive and hear messages from the Divine - I would hope that the prophet Muhammed stands testament to that. But when you keep wanting to deny this unless it be proven to you - then you just appear very arrogant. Isn't the Quran's existence proof enough for you?
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I would imagine that the people who have natural ability to be close to God or hear/receive His message - would not come out with criminal theories for misleading mankind and they could be easily exposed by a good debate.
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Sorry to be off-topic, but not this salat = prayers again...
Please explain 2156-57
2156
The ones who, when afflicted with adversity, they say "We are to God and to Him we will return."
2157
To these will be PRAYERS from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.
And Jk - the other thing is whenever you are talking to me - I feel that you are actually talking to someone else - that you have not really heard me - but are assuming that I am that I am a certain category of person that you may have met at some point in your life - because my story and what you are saying just don't add up.
I know the feeling.
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Peace "humandesign",
Didnt i give an example of how dangerous it could be if one just accepts the voices inside ones head as GOD's command, even though they sound so real? Ae you aware of the fact that the mind can play alot of tricks on you and this has happened to me as well? I in my youth remember to have seen ghost like people sitting on a bench together with my mom who saw them too. Should i claim a paranormal experience? Or should i consider simpler possibilities like someone playing with a projector, fog and lights, etc? Other times i lie in bed and suddenly i see a black ghost whilst i still felt awake. Michael Shermer felt in his youth tht he got abducted by aliens after a long exhausting bicycle ride. Now he knows that his mind played tricks on him and he has proven it. Here
http//youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0
Isnt it obvious now? So many peole make these claims at one pt or another INCLUDING US SKEPTICS, with the difference that now we have a very reasonable answer.
Regarding your belief in GOD, i not only belive in GOD but i rationally worked out His exietence to be inevitable as ive explained in various of my posts here.I dont however beelive that GOD is a magical/spiritual Being in the sense that most religious people take Him because that just doesnt make sense. Besides relying entirely on oneself is AGAINST THE QURAN since it would mean elevating ones own ego i.e. associating it with GOD as the Quran warns. GOD has created a system and that never changes. We live inside that and that includes OTHER PEOPLE. We are social beings. Alone we cannot achieve much neither can we be sure of anything except making it appear to be so thus deluding ourselves which creates all kinds of poblems for other people as we see with many religions who all claim to have the absolute truth. No matter what we will always be depedent on each other, on the system, and thus on GOD. GOD Bless! -
JK - I don't know abtou those voices inteh head etc - perhaps it is the shy-taan part of the psyche working up - who knows - but aswell there may be people who don't fall in to that category what you have described and have totally genuine expereinces. You have to be open to that possibility of another category of people aswell - instead of shutting out all possibilites. I know that my expereinces definitely do not fall in to the remit of what you have described.
We are asked to pray to God - to ask for things - it is reasonable to assume that God is in our lives communicating to us - and divine intervention is real otherwsie there be no need for prayers. But that doen't mean that divine intervention is happening all the time with whatever a person may coem to beeilvei about.
Huh - when did I say to rely totally on oneself? Wisdom comes from listening to God through what circumstances He presents us with and learning the inspired messages. And aswell when did I ever say about not engaging with society??
It appears I am not the first person who feels you are talking only to yourself. It really comes accross rather strongly how you have shut down on receiving the reality.
May God shower his blessings on you and all of us to keep on the straight path.
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House MD,
First of all I would like to declare and reaffirm - that I am trying to learn here - I don't feel confident enough to say that I have worked out the process to the salat yet. But I do need to be with all that I can understand and I would be very grateful to anyone like yourself pointing out their truths to me.
What you have highlighted is to me suggesting about a personal communion with God that can ALSO form part of the presribed salat prayers....It is a natural thing to call on God when we are afflicted and when we are not afflicted we can also pray to Him for continual guidance and also pray for others. Sometimes when signing off from a post - I end with a personal prayer to God for the well-being of that person in a particular way.
Anyway - in 17;78 we have this order of the salat as follows
17;78 Establish regular prayers
At the sun's decline Till the darkness of the night, (this is one prayer -the sunset/magreb salat)
And the morning prayer (this is two prayer - the fajr/sunrise)
And reading for the prayer (this is talking about additional reading (recitation) FOR the prayer)
And reading in the morning carry their testimony (it appears clear about a differnece between reading and praying)See where it differentiates between prayer and reading?
And the morning prayer
And reading for the prayerThat said - the Quran mentions it is better to always remember God than to do salat. That means you could get by without doing salat - if you were already inclined towards being an honest, and devout person of integrity and meaning well for people. So I wouldn't rule out that one either.
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Peace "humandesign",
JK - I don't know abtou those voices inteh head etc - perhaps it is the shy-taan part of the psyche working up - who knows - but aswell there may be people who don't fall in to that category what you have described and have totally genuine expereinces. You have to be open to that possibility of another category of people aswell - instead of shutting out all possibilites. I know that my expereinces definitely do not fall in to the remit of what you have described.
JK- Im always open to other possibilities PROVIDED THERES EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEM. As Carl Sagan once said "Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence". And it is always the claimant who has to provide evidence not the others. We dont go hunting to prove non-existence of creatures in science like tooth fariy or santa. The ones wh claim they exist eed to prove it. So im waiting.
We are asked to pray to God - to ask for things - it is reasonable to assume that God is in our lives communicating to us - and divine intervention is real otherwsie there be no need for prayers. But that doen't mean that divine intervention is happening all the time with whatever a person may coem to beeilvei about.
JK- Divine intervention on the macro non quantum level has never been shown and prayer can be to refresh or energize your own consciosness and thereby help you.
Huh - when did I say to rely totally on oneself? Wisdom comes from listening to God through what circumstances He presents us with and learning the inspired messages. And aswell when did I ever say about not engaging with society??
JK- We learn in groups when collective statements/ideas converge after individual's examination. Thats how we get closest to the truth.
It appears I am not the first person who feels you are talking only to yourself. It really comes accross rather strongly how you have shut down on receiving the reality.
JK- Quite the contrary. You can find my previous posts how i favored psychic powers like those of Uri Geller and others and rejected evolution. But i found out that i was being fooled just like many still are.
May God shower his blessings on you and all of us to keep on the straight path.
JK- Now youve the traditional interpretation of the "sallu" verses in mind. Actually GOD with His universal forces supports us everyday if we are on the rational path. GOD Bless!
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JK
I am not trying to advocate about my divinity or even others - but your fixation on credibility for psychic powers or whatever does not do justice to the message or lessons behind my experience. You could perhaps instead try taking to pieces overall message that resulted from my experiences.
It's like looking at the Quran and thinking - how did it get compiled, is it authentic with a mathematical code - dealing with all of that before trying to learn/undestand the messages contained within the stories of the Quran. I don't discount the former aspects - just that getting tied to them before everythng else would misses the point for the Quran's existence.
Lets get to the nitty gritty - whether or not praanormal expereince was real or not - how does this change our circumstance - am I asking you to beleive in me to follow me because of all my experiences ?? NO I am trying give the message learnt form my experience about not chasing the unknown.
Surah46 Al Ahqaf V9 Say ?I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow that which is revealed to me by inspiration I am but a warner open and clear.?
Lets agree that we don't know exactly how God makes prayer works - but it works in some capacity - that being the main thing that we need to know.
JK- We learn in groups when collective statements/ideas converge after individual's examination. Thats how we get closest to the truth.
Wouldn't that depend on the mentality of the group of people you are sitting with - I mean obviously if you go and seek help with sunni people - the help you receive will be skewed by their inclinations. But if you try to listen to God and commune with Him - instead as appears advocated by the Al fathih prayer 'In you alone do we seek help and guidance' Then God has guarnteed to answer your prayersSurah2 Al Baqarah V186 ?I listen to the prayer of every supplicant when he calleth on Me let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.
Surah 7 Al Araf V30 Some He hath guided others have (by their choice) deserved the loss of their way, in that they toke the evil ones in preference to Allah, for their friends and protectors, and think that they receive guidance.
Surah 18 V102 Do the unbelievers think that they can take my servants as protectors besides Me?
Actually GOD with His universal forces supports us everyday if we are on the rational path. I would rather like to say that God supports all of us with what we deserve and are worthy of. My prayer was rather for a specific direction of support in your life - if that be God's will.
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Salaam,
From what I understand, Al Quran states that remembrance or meditation on God is more important than salaat. Whether one does it 5 times or 3 times is not as important as being in a constant state of submission to Allah. The Salaat is a physical representation of worship but not a deeper form of worship which comes through the surrendering of the ego or nafs and allowing the roh to express itself. A person can do 50 salaat's a day but if he is not sincere, none of them will make a difference. I believe that if the number of times was SO important Allah would have made it very clear. However I think I agree with the 5 salaat theory and the mathematical miracle seems to back this up.
Peace.
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Amin74
I don't think anyone of us is in disagreement with what you have said as regards to the pyschological aspect of salat - yes I have already indicated above that remeberence of God be better than salat.
But my issue was related to Kihdr saying that the 5 time prayer is advocated in the Quran - which I did not find.
I am perplexed why you are beleiving in 5 time prayer when you have not supplied any Quranic evidence for it. Are you just relying on the matehmatics rather than what is specificly mentioned in the Quran? In that case I do not find your reasoning to be any different that the sunnis' reason for doing it - as in you are both putting your faith in some other notion other than what is directly decreed/messaged for in the Quran - almost as though you are paying importance to a pattern rather than the truth that is expounded in the Quran.
Remember it would be the plain messages themselves that be most important than putting faith in man-interpreted things. May be there is the miracle of no 19 throughout the Quran- but perhaps extending it in to a 5 times prayer is coincidence
As well what are your opinions on where Khidr is detailing about the process of the salat - when there is clearly no evidence for it to the references he has cited in the Quran? At lease not in the ones that he has mentioned. Even Alluhuakbar is not menitoned in the references but he is very incorrectly saying they are mentioned there!
I would have appreciated your pointing out where I may have been be wrong rather than your offering of verbal support to the status quo.
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Salaam,
I was wondering if you read his whole article. Near the end he gives historical evidence for salaat. It's quite interesting. Perhaps I saw it differently than you. Also you should check some of the info on the mathematical properties of salaat. It also is very interesting.
Peace
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House MD,
First of all I would like to declare and reaffirm - that I am trying to learn here - I don't feel confident enough to say that I have worked out the process to the salat yet. But I do need to be with all that I can understand and I would be very grateful to anyone like yourself pointing out their truths to me.
What you have highlighted is to me suggesting about a personal communion with God that can ALSO form part of the presribed salat prayers....It is a natural thing to call on God when we are afflicted and when we are not afflicted we can also pray to Him for continual guidance and also pray for others. Sometimes when signing off from a post - I end with a personal prayer to God for the well-being of that person in a particular way.
Anyway - in 17;78 we have this order of the salat as follows
17;78 Establish regular prayers
At the sun's decline Till the darkness of the night, (this is one prayer -the sunset/magreb salat)
And the morning prayer (this is two prayer - the fajr/sunrise)
And reading for the prayer (this is talking about additional reading (recitation) FOR the prayer)
And reading in the morning carry their testimony (it appears clear about a differnece between reading and praying)See where it differentiates between prayer and reading?
And the morning prayer
And reading for the prayerThat said - the Quran mentions it is better to always remember God than to do salat. That means you could get by without doing salat - if you were already inclined towards being an honest, and devout person of integrity and meaning well for people. So I wouldn't rule out that one either.
Don't worry we're all here to learn. Heck not too long ago (months) I too believed salat = prayers.
I could be misunderstanding you, when you say 'salat prayers' what do you mean exactly? Is this the sunni version, and how most of the Muslims perform their prayers?
Bro, salat can't possibly be prayers as I highlighted. Does God do prayers to himself?! To pray is something else. Salat is getting 'online with God'. Which is dependent on the person, because that person himself knows how to get online with The God. Praying AND Salat are two different things. Can praying (differ than PRAYERS) be part of one's Salat? Sure if one wishes it to be. 2945 clearly shows the method of salat is irrelevant. But it must be such a method that prohibits evil and vice (again 2945).
In fact, I urge you to try 'prayers' for yourself in every verse salat and its plural salawat is is mentioned and see if it works.
salat (ة n. f. sing. - 23, 243, 245, 283, 2110, 2153, 2177, 2238, 2277, 443, 477, 4101, 4102, 4103, 4103, 4103, 4142, 4162, 56, 512, 555, 558, 591, 5106, 672, 692, 6162, 7170, 83, 835, 95, 911, 918, 954, 971, 9103, 1087, 1187, 11114, 1322, 1431, 1437, 1440, 1778, 17110, 1931, 1955, 1959, 2014, 20132, 2173, 2235, 2241, 2278, 232, 2437, 2441, 2456, 2458, 2458, 273, 2945, 2945, 3031, 314, 3117, 3333, 3518, 3529, 4238, 5813, 629, 6210, 7023, 7034, 7320, 985, 1075
salawat (ت nom. gen. n. plu. - 2157, 2238, 999, 2240, 239http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Praying, one can do anytime, anywhere. Salat is for believers (al mumineen) ONLY, at specific times (4103).
I disagree that reading and salat is differentiated in 1778. To me the reading is highlighted. The reading there seems to be connected to As-Salaat.
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Dera House MD
Praying AND Salat are two different things. - when did I disagree with you?
I have been through what you have said about 4 times now - and each time I only see that you are saying what I have said - we are in agreement but you think that I was disagreeing with you!! ;D ;D But don't worry it may be because I did not project clearly enough what I was trying to say. But even still it may also help you to better try to understand a person in what they may mean as opposed to focusing on the language used or not used.
What I said
What you have highlighted is to me suggesting about a personal communion with God that can ALSO form part of the presribed salat prayers....
See where it differentiates between prayer and reading?And the morning prayer
And reading for the prayerThat said - the Quran mentions it is better to always remember God than to do salat. That means you could get by without doing salat - if you were already inclined towards being an honest, and devout person of integrity and meaning well for people. So I wouldn't rule out that one either.
By salat I mean specificly in relation to the standing bowing prostration and praising God at specific times as per Quran.
By prayers I mean - the asking of something - whether that be for guidance or for specifics. The surah Al fatiha that is commonly recited at the start of the salat - that verse I feel falls in to the category of prayer and praising of God - hence salat and prayer are interminged with each other. So essentially I think we are agreed that salat and prayers are two different things but can be used together.My understanding is of the entire process of salat-prayers currently is
1.be in a state of purity (because it is decreed in the Quran)
2.make communion with God through reciting Alfatiha and then other surah's (because this is the opening verse of the Quran before all other verses)
3.praise God simultaneously as performing acts of submission (bowing standing prostrating) (because it is decreed in the Quran)
4.Meditiate on God (because meditation is an additional reference to prayer/salat given in the Quran)
5.offer personal prayer. (because we are told in the Quran to ask God for anything we want and there are examples of previous people asking God and their prayers are answer)I don't mean to rely on outside sources - but I can not help but draw on similarities.
I have previously studied (in my non-Quranic days) about the Kahuna code in religions - this is concerned with the method of prayer all being descended form one source - thereby the elements being similar in all religions. The kahuna method of prayer draws on a similar process. The personal prayers are offered as the last thing because it is understood that after doing all of the exercises - the prayers are more likely to be answered after having gotten online with God so to speak. Also note the meaning structure presented in al Fatihah - first it starts with Praising God and then moves on to asking God for guidance - so praise Him first then ask. -
Amin74
Just to clarify - I don't have objections to the 5 times salat - just because it is not in the Quran. As logically it would be merely be the means of drawing closer with God - but it does mention in the Quran that each time you do the salat - the previous sins are forgiven - yet it it better than offering salat to always remember God.
Therefore it stands that if you always remember God then you should not be committing any sins in the first place - and therefore in such a particular context - there is no need to engage in salat.
I think it all spells out to us that the options are there for whichever capacity of rememberence is fitting for a person's state of being/evolution.
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Salaam HD,
I don't think that always remembering Allah will make you sinless. As long as we live in this world under the influence of the nafs, passions, ego we are always capable of sinning, but I'm sure it helps. Besides there is more than one way to be in constant remembrance of Allah. The most common method is with the thinking mind or ego. We can consciously think of and remember Allah but this is still a process of the nafs. Real remembrance lies in the complete submission of the nafs so that it is the roh that is expressing worship. Remember life is not isolated to this world or the senses. Life and consciousness first existed when roh was given to our form before we came here. Even if the nafs are quiet in this existence the roh is still alive and dynamic. It is within the roh that true free will resides and true life. If we could switch of our nafs like a light I am convinced we would still be conscious, dynamic and have all functions we have now. We would see, hear, taste and touch because the roh contains these capacities. Our worldly senses or passions are what give us the desire to exist in this world. Without it we would perpetually long for the next world. We would not advance in this world. We would not procreate, eat etc. The nafs and are physical form are shed at death and the roh perpetuates. I believe salaat is a physical form of remembering Allah. It is something we will ourselves to do with our minds. True submission is experienced when the willfulness stops. Instead we have a willingness or sincere desire to completely submit and surrender to Allah's will. Thus experiencing the manifest expression of the roh. Willingness is ego expression. Willfulness is awareness that only God can help us to truly surrender, and sincerely asking for Him to aid us. Willingness is struggling to hold on, while willfulness is letting go completely and allowing ourselves to fall into the gentle embrace of our creator. Full and complete trust which is real worship.
Peace
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Amin74,
Sorry but your words are too theoretical for me to read - I majored in psychology but I can no longer puport to man-made interpretations on the psyche.
I will say is nothing is an impossiblity. Inner Tuition (intuition/instinct) may be a means by which we remain conscious of God at all times.
How indeed does God become part of our lives such that we are always in remebrance of Him? If we do not break our bonds with God through such means as remaining true to our intuition/instinct (not meaning exclusively that may be the only means) then we may remain rightly guided.
I just think it's feasible - but not that I feel bonded enough with God to declare that I can live by that. Certainly the Quran has guided me to many places where I have disobeyed my instincts. But I know aswell that many times I do find an inner tuition guiding me.