Quran Translation Project
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Peace to you all,
The translation project which is available at Free-Minds has reached a milestone at being just over 53% complete...
Please review the translation whenever you have time and post any errors (translation or otherwise) on this message board.
The next phase will be to make what is already translated into a 'zip' file which can be downloaded for easy access...The entire translation should be complete by this summer (unless GOD wills otherwise),
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/quran.htm
Layth
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'aqamoo' does not mean 'hold'. Please see 1877, 566, 2230. It means 'uphold/maintain/vivify' ('to make straight' at its core).
'hajj' does not mean 'pilgrimage'. Please see a dictionary, 93 in which an announcement is made on the greatest/peak day of al HJJ. A pilgrimage is a journey to a sacred location, it is no longer a pilgrimage when they are gathered there. If it is a journey there would be an anomlay in days for each person, hence peak day makes little sense. And 2227 shows one can call out to mankind with al HJJ. One does not use pilgrimage as a vehicle to call out with. This is a direct link to the word HJJ implying portraying a message/call. al HJJ means the conference/symposium.
Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.
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Coincidentally, today I cam across 1264, which proves that 'Al-Raheem' means 'The Merciful' beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that it is 'arham' that means 'most merciful' (which makes sense because it is the superlative).
Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.
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Peace Wakas,
The latest on-line version of the QT (dated June 13, 2005) reflects some of the changes that you had suggested, mainly
- Changing 'hold' to 'uphold' for the Salat verses.
- Dropping 'most' from 'most merciful'.
- Any inconsistent words/phrases.
As for the suggestions of 'Fassala' and 'Hajj', I do not find myself agreeing with your conclusions after reviewing the words and their respective use in the Scripture.
The Hajj is perscribed to the shrine, thus to use 'debate,conference, symposium' or any other meaning renders the statement illogical since you are not going to debate or conference with the shrine (but at it).
Thus, while a conference/debate is one of the core activities of the hajj, it is not the hajj itself.
On 'Fassala', the use of 'detailed' holds water with the use of the verses (the suggested change you propose is within the same neighborhood).
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peace Layth,
Thanks for the feedback but I'm a little disappointed.
Its hard to say whether its been updated or not because when I checked it just now its still the same. This might be due to a delay on the server or something. I have the following comments
Did you put the changes of 56 and 443 in? To me, these are obvious.
I disagree with your usage of "outdoors" in 2458. That could suggest when taking off your coat it is a private time for you! Or people have a weird practice of stripping naked from outside clothing?
The trans. of "scheduled book" in 4103 is poor, it should be "timed decree/law".
Whilst I may agree that 'fassala' may be in the same neighbourhood as "detailed", for accuracy purposes, its closer to "to distinguish, make distinct, clarify" etc.
I'm afraid you are greatly mistaken about HJJ=pilgrimmage. I noted you did not provide any reference which backed up your claim of HJJ being to... (you used "the shrine" which is another mistake in my opinion, so lets leave it as "al bayt" for this discussion). Where is HJJ ila al bayt in 'al quran'?
Secondly, your meaning of HJJ=pilgrimmage fails the criteria for HJJ based on 'al quran'. How do you answer these points
One can call out to mankind with al HJJ?
If one uses the dictionary.com definition of pilgrimage (a journey to a sacred place), then what is the difference between pilgrimage & visit/3MR, when in English they mean the same thing?
In 2196 it states "whoever enjoys in the visit until/to/ila al HJJ". I just noticed this. This makes the following highly unlikely "whoever enjoys in the visit until the pilgrimmage" because the word "visit" implies they are already there, thus what further pilgrimage is this?
If we insert the definition, the distortion/absurdity becomes clear
"whoever enjoys in the visit until the journey to a sacred place" !
For those who like a little verification, this is for you
...faman (whoever) tamattaAAa (enjoys) bi (with/in) al AAumrati (the visit) ila (to/until) al hajji (the conference/symposium)...
I feel this is a pivotal sign, in comprehension of meaning.
Is this discussed in your article?
2196 do we fast during/in the pilgrimmage (i.e. while we are travelling?)
2197 do we not indulge in ungodliness/disputing during/in the pilgrimage (i.e. while we are travelling?) This doesn't make sense, as we could be travelling alone, thus no-one to dispute with! It is clearly on about when other people are around, and this would be in/during the conference/symposium.
93 what is the peak day of pilgrimage? If we insert the dictionary definition, it makes no sense - "the peak day of journeying to a sacred place" as it would be different for everyone.
In 2827 "that you work for me through eight pilgrimage periods" shows that HJJ can be used as a measurement of time that is well known. If HJJ = pilgrimmage = journey to a sacred place, then the time taken for each person to reach the sacred place would be different, it would be individual due to individual distances travelled, thus different timings would arise and thus could not be a well known time of measurement. Thus "eight conference/symposium periods" would make more sense, as this time is set, therefore more likely to be well known.
Thus, while a conference/debate is one of the core activities of the hajj, it is not the hajj itself.
If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?
All feedback appreciated.
Wakas
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Peace Wakas,
I disagree with your usage of "outdoors" in 2458. That could suggest when taking off your coat it is a private time for you! Or people have a weird practice of stripping naked from outside clothing?
Dhaheera is either translated commonly as 'noon' (which does not make sence since that would give only one private time for changing clothes) or the current use of 'outdoors' which stipulates that a change may be nessesary such as changing from outdoor clothes to sleeping clothes (etc.) and not nessesarily every time you step out the door as you have implied.
The trans. of "scheduled book" in 4103 is poor, it should be "timed decree/law".
Agree.
Whilst I may agree that 'fassala' may be in the same neighbourhood as "detailed", for accuracy purposes, its closer to "to distinguish, make distinct, clarify" etc.
I still see 'detailed' as being a more correct meaning.
I'm afraid you are greatly mistaken about HJJ=pilgrimmage. I noted you did not provide any reference which backed up your claim of HJJ being to... (you used "the shrine" which is another mistake in my opinion, so lets leave it as "al bayt" for this discussion). Where is HJJ ila al bayt in 'al quran'?
'wa lilahi ala alnaas hajj albayt"
"In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from mankind to make Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds." (The Message 39
That the pilgrimage is to a destination goes without saying...There is no hajj if you are staying in your home oe in your town...the journey must be made by all to Bakka...Thus it is correct to be translated as 'pilgrimage' and not 'conference'.
One can call out to mankind with al HJJ?
Yes. I see nothing wrong here. Abraham called people with the pilgrimage, and they came from every far point.
If one uses the dictionary.com definition of pilgrimage (a journey to a sacred place), then what is the difference between pilgrimage & visit/3MR, when in English they mean the same thing?
The pilgrimage is held in specific times, thus anything outside the times of hajj is umrah.
If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?
Because we are told by God that the people (al-naas) will witness benefits for them.
Finally, it is important to note that the purpose of Hajj is not only to meet and debate/discuss, but is to thank God for His blessing of livestock upon us...Changing the word will change the purpose.
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peace be upon you Layth,
Firstly, I will re-paste the Qs not answered
Did you put the changes of 56 and 443 in? To me, these are obvious.
In 2196 it states "whoever enjoys in the visit until/to/ila al HJJ". I just noticed this. This makes the following highly unlikely "whoever enjoys in the visit until the pilgrimmage" because the word "visit" implies they are already there, thus what further pilgrimage is this?
There were others, but they were all linked to the way in which you and I are understanding the word 'pilgrimage', so I will try and clarify. I am using the dictionary.com definition
- A journey to a sacred place or shrine.
- A long journey or search, especially one of exalted purpose or moral significance.
In your view, does it involve journeying or not? Because it seems to me you are mixing this aspect up, or at least you have not addressed this properly. Is it 'journeying to the sacred place', or is it 'being at the sacred place'? Or is it both 'journeying and ending up there at the sacred place'? Please pick one, so I can understand your view and examine it properly.
That the pilgrimage is to a destination goes without saying...There is no hajj if you are staying in your home oe in your town...the journey must be made by all to Bakka...Thus it is correct to be translated as 'pilgrimage' and not 'conference'.
Circular argument
Unsound reasoning in which it is argued both that A is the case on the grounds that B is the case and that B is the case on the grounds that A is the case. (Consider ?That there is a god is reliably stated in our holy book, and we can be sure the holy book is reliable because it?s divinely inspired.?) Compare BEGGING THE QUESTION.
www.abdn.ac.uk/philosophy/guide/glossary.shtml
The traditional use of the phrase 'Begging the question' describes a type of logical fallacy (also called 'petitio principii') in which the evidence given for a proposition is as much in need of proof as the proposition itself. A common form of begging the question is a circular argument, circulus in probando, vicious circle or circular reasoning in which the proposition to be proved is contained in one of the premises. As a concept in logic the first known definition in the West is by the Gre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_argument
Please give me the specific evidence which proves it is to al bayt, if there is any.
2227 shows HJJ is a vehicle/medium to call out with. This is unlikely (impossible?) for a 'pilgrimage'.
If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?
Because we are told by God that the people (al-naas) will witness benefits for them.
You went from the general wording 'witness benefits' to a specific core event of conference/debate? I would expect an explicit reference if this was the case, because 'benefits' could be many things.
Finally, it is important to note that the purpose of Hajj is not only to meet and debate/discuss, but is to thank God for His blessing of livestock upon us...Changing the word will change the purpose.
No it would not. Holding an event such as a conference/symposium would require provision (e.g. food/drink) for its participants & visitors. This is done in many conferences today.
Wakas
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Salaamun alaikum brother Layth,
Following are some of the errors in translation that I have spotted in "The Message". I would appreciate if you can go through the following and all the specified links and correct the meanings in the pm translation of Al-Qur'aan
- 518 By the sky that is clear.
Should be
518 By the sky that is weaved/woven
The arabic word is "hubuk" which means "weaved" or "interwoven" and not "clear"
That is proof of the "string theory" of subatomic particles. Following reference you will find intresting on this (under "the woven sky")
http//members.aol.com/silence004/
- 2143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
Should be
2143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
Similarly
3143 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God knowing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient?
Should be
3143 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God distinguishing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient?
Similarly
917 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to know those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
Should be
917 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to distinguish those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
Similarly
293 While We had tested those before them, so that God would know those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.
Should be
293 While We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would distinguish the liars.
Otherwise the implication is that The God does not know??? whereas He is Allknowing.
Please see the following for details
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45181&highlight=#45181
- 44 And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry those whom you see fit from their mothers, two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you are already betrothed to. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.
Should be
44 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans/widows) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then by one or what your oath possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
See following for full details
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46738&highlight=#46738
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3533
http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html- 96 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
912 If they repent, and they uphold the contact-method, and they contribute towards betterment, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.
Should be
96 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the bond, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
912 If they repent, and they uphold the bond, and they contribute towards betterment, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.Please see following link for details
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/disproved_salatequalsprayer.htm
- 2185 A month in early autumn, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you can observe the season, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
Should be
2185 Full moon of scorching heat, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the full moon, then let him abstain it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
See following for details
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2757&highlight=full+moon
- 416 And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.
Should be
416 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.
- 5556 In them are attendants with a splendid look, unknown before by any human or Jinn.
Should be
5556 In them are best of fruits close by, untouched before by any human or Jinn.
5570 In them is what is good and beautiful.
Should be
5570 In them is goodness/benefits most excellent
5572 Companions, inside grand pavilions.
Should be
5572 Pure, confined in tents
5626 And wonderful companions
Should be
5626 And pure/clear springs
4452 So it is, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.
Should be
4452 So it is, and We granted/gave them pure springs
5219 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.
Should be
5219 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We granted/gave them pure springs
3852 And with them are attendants with a splendid look and of equal age.
Should be
3852 And with them are best of fruits close by and matching
3749 And with them are attendants with wide eyes and a splendid look.
Should be
3749 And with them are springs, close by/within close proximity
3750 They are like fragile eggs.
Should be
3750 Like crystal white, carefully guarded
For in depth explanation of the above translations from #7 onwards please check out the following link
http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/hur-article.htm
If you do not agree with any of the above mentioned corrected translations then I would appreciate if you can give me a detailed explanation of why you think they are wrong.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salaamun alaikukm Layth,
2364 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bare. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
It should be "bear" and not "bare"
2364 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
Regards,
Tanveer
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AAlameena (plural, e.g. 12) = beings/creations
Please see the following signs which clearly demonstrate the meaning of AAalameena 780, 1570, 2623, 26165, 296, 2910, 2928, 4432
some examples
And We have chosen them, knowingly/knowledgeably (AAilmin), over the creations/beings (AAalameena).
Do you approach the males of the creations/beings (AAalameena)?
Pharaoh said "And what is the Lord of the creations/beings (AAalameena)?"
He said "The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, if you are aware"Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.
Wakas
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peace Layth, all,
I cant recall where the other thread is for revisions but this one will do.
Before I post another, I would like to highlight some of the others above have not been implemented, meaning they are still present in 'The Message' and still incorrect (in my opinion).
In 3510
The suffixed pronoun in (yarfa3uhu it/he) is ambiguous because it can refer to either the righteous deed or "whoever" in the beginning of the verse. Thus I believe the possibilities are
"Whoever desires honour, power and glory then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory. To Him ascend the goodly words and the righteous deed raise him......"
"Whoever desires honour, power and glory then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory. To Him ascend the goodly words and the righteous deed He raises it....."
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Salam,
Here is The Message translation
Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the good words, and they are exalted by the good deeds. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail. (3510)
I find it more accurate when looking through the Arabic with regards to what the good works/deeds are doing.
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peace,
I find it more accurate when looking through the Arabic with regards to what the good works/deeds are doing.
Is 'the righteous deed' singular or not?
Does "yarfa3uhu" refer to a singular thing or not?
Answering these will allow us to see what is more accurate.
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Peace,
I see the point you are making.
The rightous deed is singular. The raising (yarfa3uhu) is done by God to the good work/deed.
"Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the words that are good, and the good deed, it is made better by Him. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail. (3510)
