Why does God punish unbelievers?

Supernaut

This question?s been plaguing me lately and I?ve not been able to come up with a satisfactory answer. I tried to reason that people who reject God are intrinsically evil and therefore don't deserve God's mercy, but then I told myself that that can?t be the case, because God wouldn?t deem someone evil, unless God had a reason to (4144); you will not be guilty until proven innocent in God's court (3182, 2413 and 729). After that I thought that maybe the reason why God will punish people who reject God - even though they may be wonderful people - is that they make themselves prone to the devil's influence, but that isn't the same as coming under Satan's influence I reasoned, so they can't be truly guilty. Another thought that occurred to me as to why God will punish unbelievers is that they are ungrateful to God for granting them their faculties, material blessings, und so weiter, but why should thanklessness bother God so much as to send someone to Hell? No sane person would torture their friend if their friend didn't show appreciation for whatever good they did to their friend, so why should God? Plus, there isn't a verse in the Quran that suggests that God feels sadness, hurt or jealousy [God does experience emotions like love (2195), anger (493), compassion (11) and hatred (4010), but not emotions that are experienced by lower beings, emotions like fear, sorrow, jealousy, grief and pain), so why should God be bothered if someone rejects It and doesn't thank It? It's not like someone gets hurt when a person decides to disbelieve in God. God doesn't even need us to believe in It (4131 and 14.

Right now, at this very moment, an answer that I consider plausible has just occurred to me. God says in 5156 that humans and jinns were created to worship God. When we refuse to do this, we refuse to fulfill our part of an agreement with God that we willingly made (3372). God created a universe with seven layers in which everything was in perfect sync with God?s laws for the universe the laws of nature. I think it is perfectly reasonable and understandable and that there is nothing twisted and egomaniacal for God to want to have a universe in which everything, including beings with the ability to choose otherwise, to live according to It?s laws because the universe and everything in it is God?s. Everything in the universe belongs to no one but God; we humans are a bit like customers in a shop and God?s like the shop?s owner. Customers in a shop should be treated with courtesy and politeness, but a shop-keeper has the right to ask any customer who proves themselves to be a nuisance to leave their shop. God would only be cruel if the laws of the universe didn?t allow us to get into God?s good books, but that isn?t the case. I think this answer by itself is justification enough for God sending people to Hell, but this answer along with the fact that unbelievers are thankless people is a very compelling argument why unbelievers really do deserve to go to Hell.

I created this topic seeking an answer to my question. It so happens that I got the answer I wanted while typing. Please share your thoughts on this subject.

Dotty

May God bless all those who deserves His blessings!

Interesting topic Supernaut.

God repeatedly speaks of our RETURN TO HIM in the Quran... 228, 246, 636, 660, 6108, 6164, 104, 1023, 1046, 114, 2135, 298, 2917, 3115, 3123, 3622, 397, 4043.

So what does this mean? Were we with God at some point before we were placed in the womb? If so, did we mess something up at that time and this world is our test? We all RETURN TO GOD and the unbelievers are punished because they failed the test?

A very interesting topic indeed!

Peace,
dotty

Supernaut

Thanks, dotty

I believe we were in existance before coming into this world. You should read the seventh appendix of Khalifa's translation at http//www.submission.org/quran/app7.html and the eighth appendix of Yuksel's latest translation of the Quran at http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/hell.htm

Though bits of what Khalifa said in the seventh appendix of his translation are clearly wrong (like Satan being a "temporary god" and animals being conscious beings that repented to God before coming into this world), most of it is highly informative. One of the referrences I typed turned into a smiley after I posted my last message. The referrence was 148

huruf

Would any human being punish anybody, human or animal, forever with the most atrocious suffering? FOREVER? Even for the most horrendous crime we would perhaps admit for a lifetime. But FOREVER? If anybody was capable of such cruelty we would consider him or her a monster. FOREVER? And that is what we think the most merciful the all mercyful would do? The same who created such a being would do that to its creature FOREVER?

I for one, do not believe that. It is not only that any being who did that is not all merciful, it is that besides being monstruously cruel, that being would be radically contradictory and a failure. He created us to worship Him, and there are people who are going to never worship him? That to me is nonsense. All human beings will end up worshiping God because that is what they were created for. And nobody who worships God can be in hell, because nobody who worships God can be in anything but bliss.

The Quran says we were created to worship God, the Quran says to God is the run of our existence, -"al masir"-. Not to hell, to God. So hell for sure must exist, such fire that will purify and burn all that is antiGod en every human being. When they are purified and turn their aversion to God into the recognition of God, their blindness into the vision of the purity of God and worship Him accordingly -"ilaiHe el masir"-, they will return to Him, to their source, from which they have been so far due to their blindness.

The return to God is the return to the source of our existence. We didn't exist we go back to the source from which all existence comes. That is what I understand.

It seems that those who consider punishment eternal do so because of the meaning of kh-l-d which is used in that context. Does that kh-l-d mean necessarily eternal? Wouldn?t it rather be like when we say of some hardened hopeless criminal ?he will rot in jail?? Wouldn?t it be the equivalent of "till he experiences what he has done? Hill he realises what it is to receive evil instead of giving it? Isn?t our All powerful All merciful Creador meaning that?"

Is really the meaning of kh-l-d eternity? I doubt it. Somebody eternal is God, Al samad. Is hell also As-Samad, Shaitan and his followers also samad? So, will some people not be returning to God? Is al masir not to God, as the Quran affirms repeatedly? Is the God we worship a monster of cruelty? Is that what we believe? Because no matter what any human being has done, nobody can have done as much evil as to last forever such an evil, -nothing a human being can do can last forever amd therefore no punishment can last forever and still be just- and if there is such a being capable of deserving evil forever, then God has created it. What kind of cruel being is capable of such twisted design, create people so that they can do things for which he will be able to punish them in the cruelest way FOREVER? Is that a loving God? Is that someone we World call AL wadud, Al Latif Al-Ghafur, and so many other attributes of generosity and Mercy. Would that be even a just God? Wouldn't rather such a Magnifcent God create creatures susceptible of the greatest depth of evil in order to rise from that pit to the highest and worship the Lord of Love after seeing the depth of dispair because of having known the very bottom?

I know there are people who say that they believe that hell is eternal. I doubt very much that really really they are able to conceive such a thing or of believing such a thing deep in their hearts. Ask yourselves if you indeed believe sincerely.

I rather think that God is the MOST BOUNDLESSLY GENEROUS CAPABLE OF CONVEIVING AND MAKING REALITY EVERY WONDER. One such wonder is the resurrection of a rotten soul and is reunion with the other pure souls in adorartion of the Source of all being.

May God forgive us all forever.

Salaam

ramzi

Salaam Huruf,

Nice post!

I have been asking the same question? and many others.....

it all comes down to, why did God create us if he does not need us? If he did need worshippers, then he could have created all humans as believers, or indeed more angels! But he doesn't so, WHY?

"The contract/covenant that we committed to when we accepted the trust is to not serve the devil and serve The GOD alone. But when did we make this covenant and why do we, in this life, not remember that we committed to this beforehand? Perhaps, we too have a ?hidden? side that we are unaware of, just like we are unaware of the mountains? hidden side." (The Trust - Ayman)

After reading this article today, I felt that it is related to the quantum enigma. The view that reality of the physical world depends on our observation of it.

Therefore what is reality? Even time is relative!

Time passes more slowly for a fast moving object than it does for something at rest.

Therfore does something at rest control time?

Is God at rest?

He has to be! (Doesn't that explain how He was never born, nor will He die!)

We are all moving!?........

Surah Number 70, Ayah Number 4-7
To Him the angels and the Spirit (Gabriel) ascend in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.

Therefore be patient, with a beautiful patience;

they see it as being far off;

but We see it near.

So is what we observe/feel real?

Are our feelings real?

How will we be punished?

We can not comprehend this! Or can we?

Or indeed how will we be rewarded? Heavens with flowing rivers under them? Are these just pictures/symbols?

If a day is really 50,000 years

Then what is eternal?

Do we feel time like the angels do on Judgement Day? Or do we continue to be humans?

Now to questions on punishment..... (too many questions, I know!)

What are FEELINGS?

Isn't that what we are scared of? feeling agony? burning? suffering?

Do feelings come with freedom of choice? If so, then if we are going to feel suffering and burning in Hell or happiness and joy in Heaven then do we still have freedom of choice? Can I create my own little world in Heaven? And I be the God? Can I create a Heaven and Hell? Is it all just a game?

That got a bot crazy at the end! But that's an extreme view.... Just to show that I feel we do not know what form our punishment or reward will take because we do not remember what is was like when we were existence before coming into this world.

The Quran does mention what Heaven is like and what Hell is like. God uses 'things' that are present in this world in the descriptions. Tress, rivers, honey, khamr, clouds. And fire.

Do we assume then, that what we observe is in fact reality??

May God guide us all!

Alen

Peace,
respectfully.

Even though The Exalted God is punishing the unbelievers, He AllMighty still offers them a chance to repent and change and start from square one.
Those who are rich know that.

Peace.

huruf

I think submission, acceptance that we can gp nowhere becaus wherever we turn is the face of God, does a lot to quieten fears.

Yes I think that all is real, and that reality is continuous, but our limits allow as to perceive only so much and time might be the way we know, by piling things upon another and taking count. The final count, the reckoning may be a significant point, and the strains later should be lesser if you more or less managed, and if we didn't we have the hell of doing in worse circumstances what we did not impose on us to do in better ones.

unknownuser

Why does God punish unbelievers?

This answers most of it beautifully; take the time and listen/read?

Surah as-Sajdah (32) - The Prostration, Worship

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXweh6ruDms

peace

Soof

Peace

I believe God is the universal law of the universe. His nature is not conceived by one man on earth nor is the purpose of life. God defines being, existence, sight, hearing, thought, knowledge. All the things we hold dear were here before us and they will be inherited by God alone. Denying the Definition, the essence of all we are, is like denying our own existence. I believe that creates a paranormal mutation in ourselves, we are changed for the worse when we make that change because it is not the nature of ourselves. We are contradicting ourselves in disbelieving. In other words, God installed the perfect software in us (devotion to God alone) but we corrupt ourselves with viruses and shut ourselves down willingly.

So set thy purpose (O Muhammad) for religion as a man by nature upright - the nature (framed) of Allah, in which He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not -
3030

All that we take advantage of now, our brains, our genitals, our mouths, the very water we drink without which we would cease to be have no meaning or will to exist without God, so how can you disbelieve in essentially yourself and everything around you?

Peace

Dotty

I believe we were in existance before coming into this world. You should read the seventh appendix of Khalifa's translation at http//www.submission.org/quran/app7.html and the eighth appendix of Yuksel's latest translation of the Quran at http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/hell.htm

Salaam Supernaut. I found these links extremely interesting.

Along with huruf's post of...