Should we stone A. Wallace?
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Peace "abrar",
JK- I agree that one who makes such claims must have proof to support them otherwise anyone can make the claim. I'm waiting for Anthony to come with a sign/proof which we can verify to see whether he really is a messenger of GOD. All messengers needed proof including Muhammad otherwise the same schizophrenic claims could be made for them too. GOD Bless!
The signs are from God...and "God misguides whom He wills and guides to Him whoever is repenting"
Peace Anthonywallace,
Hearing voices as if God is talking to oneself can be an indication of a mental disorder such as schizophrenia. These voices are usually whispered by the Jinn devils or Satan to make a person feel very proud and special about himself making him the center of God's Universe and giving him the feeling that the fate of the world depends upon him and he has to bring about a revolutionary enlightenment.
This kind of thinking can also be a delusion. You should seek forgiveness from God about what you thought and try to be humble and rational.
The idea of reincarnation does not exist in Quran so it is false.Peace,
Who said anything about me hearing voices of God talking to me???Personally I think the voices of the Jinn and devils whisperin to me that "I am not a messenger"...
And I saw that one of satans soldiers was sent to make me suffer, so that I won't feel too proud...
! I suggest to create a stoning smileys.... >D >D
There is a possibility that Muhammad might reincarnate back into this time. Although reincarnation is possible, one might not remember the purpose of one's reincarnation. In this case, if what a. wallace says is true, he might be reincaranating back here, but don't know what he is suppose to do. Maybe we can help him remember. If false, well.... he's just bull. Playing us around...
*refer to David Wilcock case, he might be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, a psychic reader. Which also said as Ra-Ta reincarnation. An ancient Egyptian priest. There's a lot of reincarnation cases, i've studied this one. I'm speaking of a possibilities, not truth. So don't bother asking for proofs.
How old are you o messenger?
Im 25, will be 26, God willing on the 21st...
Im a numerologist ( beginner), and the pinnical that im in states that im an "old soul" a spiritual messenger...
it suggest that people with my number have made a contract in the past life, to come back and help humankind... and they are messengers and spiritual leaders, master builders, and ministers...however its a tall order... meaning that most people with these numbers will have alot of tests and stumble and most are on drugs because these numbers ( energys) are so intence that one may revert to the lower energys...and live life in that way...people with these numbers must live in truth and accept their destiny ( and accept that they are messengers)... It is only when they are living in accord with spiritual principals and behaving as messengers ect... that they are operating at the level of " the spiritual messenger" and like you say " most dont know the purpose of there "reincarnation" and dont know what they are suppose to do."
As far as numerology is concerned ( about a past life ect... dont ask me for proof like u said). This is just what numerology suggest... And it has prooven to be true thus far...
And there is no playing with me, I am serious when i say that im Gods messenger...
Peace
Salaam Anthony,
Why are you trying so hard to "convince" everyone that you are a messenger of God?
So many people here are rightly guided and share their "wisdom" with proofs/verses from the Quran regularly.
Why is it necessary to paste all over this forum that you are a messenger of God?
Is it for self-gratification?
Peace,
dottyPeace dotty,
Im not tryin hard to convince no one, let whoever will believe me and whoever will dont...
I pasted these things to deliver my Lords messages to whomever it reaches and share my wisdom along with the many other people here ( and messengers )...and the messenger of God is the title i used and will continue to use... and its others who are makin a big deal about it , because I say im a messenger...This is not for self gratification...But it is to warn the people...
What i see so far is that I am the message... This whole situation and discution is some kind of test that i caint point out...mabey to see who will deny Gods messenger or maby to test my paitence or my endurance or something...
Personaly i think that we should always keep our ears open for the " caller." And let us not deny our messengers when they come to us... God will send messengers...
We are all differnt... Be you and im go be me... Not everyone are or have the ability to be leaders, some are followers...Not everyone are messengers, just because one person may feel that he caint be or is not a messenger doesnt mean that everyone else have to be the same way...Different strokes different folks...This is me...and my way, i invite to God in full disclosure, myself and whomever follows me. And glory be to God. And i am not of those who set up partners.
Peace,Peace Mr. Wallace
My opinion is that a messenger would among his/her people promulgate the law of his divine king and be a living exampar of that code. Some have failed with the stress of the situation, but one must be outspoken, teach, and follow what has been preached. Not only that, if you're wrong concerning that which is "set in stone" maybe you should be altering the behavior. )
Joe
Peace Joe,
I agree Joe
Peace
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Peace "abrar",
Peace Jonny_k,
I agree with the following explanation.
Distinction between Prophets and Messengers
According to Uri Rubin, the Qur'an, as in the New Testament, ranks apostles (rasl) higher than prophets (see 1 Cor 1228-31; cf. Eph 35; 411). For example, in the Qur'an whenever both titles appear together, messenger comes first. The Qur'anic commentators state that a messenger is a prophet who is additionally given a message, a book which must be delivered. According to the Muslim scholar al-Baydawi, a messenger establishes a new religious law (sharia) whereas a prophet continues an old one. Furthermore, a prophet experiences revelation only in dreams whereas a messenger receives it from an angel. These would imply that prophets were more numerous than messengers and occupied a lower rank. According to A.J. Wensinck, both prophets and messengers are sent by God as preachers and warners to their people. In the case of messengers however, there seems to be a close relation between them and their people (ummah) God sends only one messenger to each people. This messenger will be the witness that God will take from that community on the Day of Judgment (see Sura X, 48; XVI, 38; XXIII, 46; XL, 5; IV, 45; XXVIII, 75). According to the Qur'an, Muhammad is sent to a people to whom no messenger has been sent yet. Lastly, a distinction should be made between celestial and human messengers. In the Qur'anic world, God has made the angels messengers but not prophets. The human messengers however are also prophets though not every prophet is a messenger.
Uri Rubin, Prophets and Prophethood, Encyclopedia of the Qur'an
^ a b A.J. Wensinck, Rasul, Encyclopedia of Islamhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam#cite_note-EoI-2
Rashad Khalifa cannot be a human messenger of God as a messenger has to be a prophet as well.
JK- MAN i just explained to you from Quran as to why messenger is the common term. Yes it is mentioned first but wherever GOD talks about "a saint prophet" he also mentions the term "siddiq" first. So does this mean in order for one to be a "siddiq" one must first be a prophet? Then in another verse GOD mentions "bashar" before he mentions rasool as in "BASHARAN rasoolan". So does one have to be a messnger first in order to be a human?? GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny_k,
I agree with the following explanation.
Distinction between Prophets and Messengers
According to Uri Rubin, the Qur'an, as in the New Testament, ranks apostles (rasl) higher than prophets (see 1 Cor 1228-31; cf. Eph 35; 411). For example, in the Qur'an whenever both titles appear together, messenger comes first. The Qur'anic commentators state that a messenger is a prophet who is additionally given a message, a book which must be delivered. According to the Muslim scholar al-Baydawi, a messenger establishes a new religious law (sharia) whereas a prophet continues an old one. Furthermore, a prophet experiences revelation only in dreams whereas a messenger receives it from an angel. These would imply that prophets were more numerous than messengers and occupied a lower rank. According to A.J. Wensinck, both prophets and messengers are sent by God as preachers and warners to their people. In the case of messengers however, there seems to be a close relation between them and their people (ummah) God sends only one messenger to each people. This messenger will be the witness that God will take from that community on the Day of Judgment (see Sura X, 48; XVI, 38; XXIII, 46; XL, 5; IV, 45; XXVIII, 75). According to the Qur'an, Muhammad is sent to a people to whom no messenger has been sent yet. Lastly, a distinction should be made between celestial and human messengers. In the Qur'anic world, God has made the angels messengers but not prophets. The human messengers however are also prophets though not every prophet is a messenger.
Uri Rubin, Prophets and Prophethood, Encyclopedia of the Qur'an
^ a b A.J. Wensinck, Rasul, Encyclopedia of Islamhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam#cite_note-EoI-2
Rashad Khalifa cannot be a human messenger of God as a messenger has to be a prophet as well.
A messenger is one that carries messages or performs errands...
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peace all
Hearing voices as if God is talking to oneself can be an indication of a mental disorder such as schizophrenia. These voices are usually whispered by the Jinn devils or Satan to make a person feel very proud and special about himself making him the center of God's Universe and giving him the feeling that the fate of the world depends upon him and he has to bring about a revolutionary enlightenment.
This kind of thinking can also be a delusion. You should seek forgiveness from God about what you thought and try to be humble and rational.
The idea of reincarnation does not exist in Quran so it is false.what makes you so sure?
how do you think all messengers/prophets got the revelation if not by hearing a VOICE?i hear voices sometimes and when i talk to God i hear Him answering back, sure it might just be me imagining His part of the conversation or maybe He is really talking to me... would you say i'm crazy?
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Im not tryin hard to convince no one, let whoever will believe me and whoever will dont...
This is a load of hooey! You are the one who started this thread.
What is the purpose if you are not trying to convince everyone of "who" you are?I pasted these things to deliver my Lords messages to whomever it reaches and share my wisdom along with the many other people here
So delivering God's message means you have to "announce your messengership" in every post? More hooey!
I enjoy reading your posts... I think others do too. But seriously man, why don't you just talk to people and quit with the resounding "I'm a messenger of God" bit? Whether you are a messenger or not... who really cares? The message of God is what matters and there are a lot of people here that share the message of God.
Peace,
dotty -
Peace all,
A schizophrenic person may hear auditory voices or even the voices in his mind which he may claim are ordering him to do something and may claim that according to the voice it is from God. These kind of people were said to be insane and the word for insanity used in Quran is "Majnoon" which means literally as someone possessed by a Jinn or a spirit as called in english. They may in some cases get treated by exorcism made by reciting verses of the Quran or may need treatment of a medical psychiatrist.
Here is an article which describes how such people were perceived throughout the history.
"The platonic ideas of a connection between madness and prophecy recur in the ancient Israel. The highly esteemed religious prophets were often regarded as mad because of their odd utterances and deviant clothes and behavior. The same conceptions later appear in the Koran in the Islamic countries. The Koran uses the word majnoon to describe mad persons as well as prophets."
http//www.hubin.org/facts/history/history_schizophrenia_en.html
List of quranic verses that describe how prophet muhammad was perceived as a madman by the unbelievers.
Chapter 15
156 And they said ?O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy.?
Chapter 37
3736 And they would say ?Shall we leave our gods because of a crazy poet??
Chapter 44
4414 But they turned away from him and said ?Clearly educated, but crazy!?
Chapter 51
5139 But he turned away, in arrogance, and he said ?A magician, or crazy.?
5152 Likewise, when a messenger went to those before them, they said ?A magician, or crazy.?
Chapter 54
549 The people of Noah disbelieved before them. They disbelieved Our servant and said ?He is crazy!? and he was oppressed.
Chapter 68
6851 And those who have rejected almost attack you with their eyes when they hear the reminder, and they say ?He is crazy!?
Chapter 81
8122 And your friend is not crazy.To verify by reason alone whether a man claiming prophet hood is really telling the truth or not is a an issue as if he is disobeyed the nation is to be immidiately destroyed by God as in the past.
214 Say ?My Lord knows what is said in the heavens and in the Earth, and He is the Hearer, the Knower.?
215 They said ?No, these are just bad dreams; no, he made it up; no, he is a poet. So let him bring us a sign like those who were sent before.?
216 None of the towns which We destroyed before them had believed. Will they believe?
217 And We did not send before you except men whom We inspired to. So ask the people of the remembrance if you do not know.
218 And We did not make for them bodies that do not need to eat, nor were they immortal.
219 Then We fulfilled the promise to them, so We saved them and whom We pleased, and We destroyed those who transgressed.
2110 We have sent down to you a Scripture in which is your remembrance. Do you not comprehend?
2111 And how many a town have We destroyed because of its wrong doing, and We established after them a different people?
2112 So it was that when they perceived Our power, they were running from it.
2113 ?Do not run, and come back to that which you were living lavishly in and your homes; so that you will be questioned.?
2114 They said ?Woe to us, we have been wicked!?
2115 So that remained as their cry until We took them all, and they became still.Theological rationality is called Ilmul kalam in arabic and is a very complex issue to discuss so if you do not believe that Quran is a legitimate revelation given through messenger and prophet muhammad to mankind then you can engage in a rational theological debate.
Please read this book "The proof prophethood" to broaden your knowledge about the issue. This books gives in depth perspectives of how to verify a prophet.
http//www.hakikatkitabevi.com.tr/download/english/09-TheProofOfProphethood.pdf
True that messenger can be any bearer of a message but in the case of prophet who is a messenger as well is to deliver the God's revelations to mankind. It is a fact in Quran that although prophets had been killed but no prophet who was a messenger as well had ever been killed.
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Peace "abrar",
You have not yet answered my reply where ive proven to you from Quran that "messenger" is the general term in the phrase "rassolan nabiyyan". ALSO further proof that messenger is the general term are these verses
Messengers(RUSUL) we have told you about before you, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.
We have sent messengers(rusul) before you - some of them we mentioned to you, and some we did not mention to you. No messenger can produce any miracle without GOD's authorization. Once GOD's judgment is issued, the truth dominates, and the falsifiers are exposed and humiliated.NEVER does GOD make the same claim about prophets(nabiyeen/anbiya) that some prophets have been mentioned whilst others havent been. Coincidence? GOD Bless!
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Should I be stoned for sayin that I am one of Gods messengers???
Would I be wrong for sayin that im a messenger of God???
Was muhammad the last messenger???
What is a messenger??? And who can and cannot be one??? And who said they can or cannot be one???
What does a messenger have to do or make happen for people to believe in him??? Does he have to come wit somethin new, or bring a sign from heaven, or have a luxtryous mansion, or what???
Give me one reason why I am not a messenger of God... Bring proof that I caint be a messenger, then I wont claim to be one anymore...
Bring proof that I am not to be obeyed...When I command you not to serve except God, and I order rigeousness...
And we are not sent except by the command of your Lord... With Him is our present and our future... So serve Him and be paitient in His service... Do you know of anything like Him???
??? jediPeace,
Respectfully.I also say to people not to argue regaridng islam and prophet Muhammad and The Quran and i tell them to do good and ask forgivnes and mercy and i follow The Quran. But i can't say that i'm a messenger of God or His prophet is simple i am sincere and honest and God sees that.
Peace.
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God bears witness. What we say is not really relevant A.wallace. But God advises us not to assert our own righteousness,humility is vital when explaining one's religion. When you put yourself on a pedestal before people it causes people to automatically shut down. People are just as skeptical as they were in the time of Muhammad, and Muhammad had the Qur'an! We are all here now with the Qur'an in our hands, we have a duty to convey the message as well and to live by it, so in part we are akin to messengers. But we are not Messengers of God with a capital M, like it is a magnanimous title of which we are entitled to extra blessings from God.
When you call yourself a messenger of God. What difference does it make to what you are saying? Does it make your words any more truthful, powerful or valid in the hearts of people? No it is the message alone that does this.
Peace
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When you call yourself a messenger of God. What difference does it make to what you are saying? Does it make your words any more truthful, powerful or valid in the hearts of people? No it is the message alone that does this.
Peace
When the other messengers called theirself a messenger of God. What difference did it make to what they were saying> Did it make their words more truthful, powerful or valid in the heqarts of the people?
Peace,
I do not understand the subject of this thread.
I for one do not think AW is stoned, just misguided.
If you dont understand the subject then how can you say im misguided, and how am I? Pleace enlighten me by my Lords leave... Who said anything about me bein stoned???
Peace,
Respectfully.I also say to people not to argue regaridng islam and prophet Muhammad and The Quran and i tell them to do good and ask forgivnes and mercy and i follow The Quran. But i can't say that i'm a messenger of God or His prophet is simple i am sincere and honest and God sees that.
Peace.
Peace,
That is you, if you feel u caint say u the messenger of God then thats you and who u are and how you feel...
This is me, my life, and who I am... Not everybody like me...Not everybody is you...not everybody can be me...
Peace, and it is good that you advacate ritiousness. Keep it up...fa real yo...
This is a load of hooey! You are the one who started this thread.
What is the purpose if you are not trying to convince everyone of "who" you are?So delivering God's message means you have to "announce your messengership" in every post? More hooey!
I enjoy reading your posts... I think others do too. But seriously man, why don't you just talk to people and quit with the resounding "I'm a messenger of God" bit? Whether you are a messenger or not... who really cares? The message of God is what matters and there are a lot of people here that share the message of God.
Peace,
dottyhmm
Peace all,
A schizophrenic person may hear auditory voices or even the voices in his mind which he may claim are ordering him to do something and may claim that according to the voice it is from God. These kind of people were said to be insane and the word for insanity used in Quran is "Majnoon" which means literally as someone possessed by a Jinn or a spirit as called in english. They may in some cases get treated by exorcism made by reciting verses of the Quran or may need treatment of a medical psychiatrist.
Here is an article which describes how such people were perceived throughout the history.
"The platonic ideas of a connection between madness and prophecy recur in the ancient Israel. The highly esteemed religious prophets were often regarded as mad because of their odd utterances and deviant clothes and behavior. The same conceptions later appear in the Koran in the Islamic countries. The Koran uses the word majnoon to describe mad persons as well as prophets."
http//www.hubin.org/facts/history/history_schizophrenia_en.html
List of quranic verses that describe how prophet muhammad was perceived as a madman by the unbelievers.
Chapter 15
156 And they said O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy.
Chapter 37
3736 And they would say Shall we leave our gods because of a crazy poet?
Chapter 44
4414 But they turned away from him and said Clearly educated, but crazy!
Chapter 51
5139 But he turned away, in arrogance, and he said A magician, or crazy.
5152 Likewise, when a messenger went to those before them, they said A magician, or crazy.
Chapter 54
549 The people of Noah disbelieved before them. They disbelieved Our servant and said He is crazy! and he was oppressed.
Chapter 68
6851 And those who have rejected almost attack you with their eyes when they hear the reminder, and they say He is crazy!
Chapter 81
8122 And your friend is not crazy.To verify by reason alone whether a man claiming prophet hood is really telling the truth or not is a an issue as if he is disobeyed the nation is to be immidiately destroyed by God as in the past.
214 Say My Lord knows what is said in the heavens and in the Earth, and He is the Hearer, the Knower.
215 They said No, these are just bad dreams; no, he made it up; no, he is a poet. So let him bring us a sign like those who were sent before.
216 None of the towns which We destroyed before them had believed. Will they believe?
217 And We did not send before you except men whom We inspired to. So ask the people of the remembrance if you do not know.
218 And We did not make for them bodies that do not need to eat, nor were they immortal.
219 Then We fulfilled the promise to them, so We saved them and whom We pleased, and We destroyed those who transgressed.
2110 We have sent down to you a Scripture in which is your remembrance. Do you not comprehend?
2111 And how many a town have We destroyed because of its wrong doing, and We established after them a different people?
2112 So it was that when they perceived Our power, they were running from it.
2113 Do not run, and come back to that which you were living lavishly in and your homes; so that you will be questioned.
2114 They said Woe to us, we have been wicked!
2115 So that remained as their cry until We took them all, and they became still.Theological rationality is called Ilmul kalam in arabic and is a very complex issue to discuss so if you do not believe that Quran is a legitimate revelation given through messenger and prophet muhammad to mankind then you can engage in a rational theological debate.
Please read this book "The proof prophethood" to broaden your knowledge about the issue. This books gives in depth perspectives of how to verify a prophet.
http//www.hakikatkitabevi.com.tr/download/english/09-TheProofOfProphethood.pdf
True that messenger can be any bearer of a message but in the case of prophet who is a messenger as well is to deliver the God's revelations to mankind. It is a fact in Quran that although prophets had been killed but no prophet who was a messenger as well had ever been killed.
jedi
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Should I be stoned for sayin that I am one of Gods messengers???
Would I be wrong for sayin that im a messenger of God???
Was muhammad the last messenger???
What is a messenger??? And who can and cannot be one??? And who said they can or cannot be one???
What does a messenger have to do or make happen for people to believe in him??? Does he have to come wit somethin new, or bring a sign from heaven, or have a luxtryous mansion, or what???
Give me one reason why I am not a messenger of God... Bring proof that I caint be a messenger, then I wont claim to be one anymore...
Bring proof that I am not to be obeyed...When I command you not to serve except God, and I order rigeousness...
And we are not sent except by the command of your Lord... With Him is our present and our future... So serve Him and be paitient in His service... Do you know of anything like Him???
??? jedi
I think A Wallace should definitely be stoned for creating this topic, because I bet being dead is better than having no life.
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Peace jonny_k,
You have not yet answered my reply where ive proven to you from Quran that "messenger" is the general term in the phrase "rassolan nabiyyan". ALSO further proof that messenger is the general term are these verses
Messengers(RUSUL) we have told you about before you, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.
We have sent messengers(rusul) before you - some of them we mentioned to you, and some we did not mention to you. No messenger can produce any miracle without GOD's authorization. Once GOD's judgment is issued, the truth dominates, and the falsifiers are exposed and humiliated.NEVER does GOD make the same claim about prophets(nabiyeen/anbiya) that some prophets have been mentioned whilst others havent been. Coincidence? GOD Bless!
As I explained earlier that a messenger of God, if he is a human is also a prophet as well. The basic function of the prophet is to preach God's message as various prophets were sent to Jews between Moses and Jesus but some were killed as mentioned in Quran. The messenger not only preaches God's message but also delivers a scripture and a system of laws to the people.Moreover no messenger mentioned in Quran had ever been killed. The messengers of God carry a message universal to the whole world at their respective times. Prophets may preach only locally who are not messengers meaning that they do not carry a universal message for all people in the form of a scripture . When a messenger is also a prophet then you cannot claim that Quran nowhere says that some prophets are not mentioned.
Lane clearly mentions that every messenger is also a prophet but not very prophet can be a messenger.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000007.pdf
This is where God mentions prophets who are in general terms we do not know who they were or their names.
384 Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit.?
Below is how prophet hood and messengers are being mentioned.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Scripture and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice. And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would distinguish those who would support Him and His messengers on faith. God is Powerful, Noble.
5726 And We had sent Noah and Abraham, and We placed in their progeny the prophethood and the Scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
5727 Then We sent in their tracks Our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and We gave him the Injeel, and We ordained in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented Monasticism which We never decreed for them. They wanted to please God, but they did not observe it the way it should have been observed. Consequently, We gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.Prophet hood and messengers are being distinguished.
689 Those to whom We have given the Scripture, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
Giving of the scripture and the law signifies a messenger who is also a prophet. If there is no difference so why would God mention them in verses in such a way.
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Peace "abrar",
Peace jonny_k,
As I explained earlier that a messenger of God, if he is a human is also a prophet as well.
JK- You have merely given some "scholarly" interpretation WHICH I PROVED FROM QURAN cannot be true. BUT the question is how can any Prophet who receives news from GOD just keep it for himself and not deliver it to the people? Doesnt make sense so every Prophet has to be a messenger.
The basic function of the prophet is to preach God's message as various prophets were sent to Jews between Moses and Jesus but some were killed as mentioned in Quran. The messenger not only preaches God's message but also delivers a scripture and a system of laws to the people.Moreover no messenger mentioned in Quran had ever been killed. The messengers of God carry a message universal to the whole world at their respective times. Prophets may preach only locally who are not messengers meaning that they do not carry a universal message for all people in the form of a scripture . When a messenger is also a prophet then you cannot claim that Quran nowhere says that some prophets are not mentioned.
JK- A messenger whose not a Prophet CONFIRMS previous scriptures. See here
GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."Now look here GOD connects Prophethood with scripture
Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and PROPHETHOOD say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and PROPHETHOOD. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers.
We have given the Children of Israel the scripture, wisdom, and PROPHETHOOD, and provided them with good provisions; we bestowed upon them more blessings than any other people.
We sent Noah and Abraham, and we granted their descendants PROPHETHOOD and the scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
ALSO hud, saleh and shuaib have been termed "messengers" in the Quran and each of them preached only a LOCAL message for their people so that statement of your is incorrect as well.
Lastly your last statement shows you did not understand my point. IT IS YOU WHO CLAIM that every Prophet is not a messenger. So if you accept that then you should wonder why did GOD not use the common term "nabi" in the above verses i quoted earlier. Get my point?
Lane clearly mentions that every messenger is also a prophet but not very prophet can be a messenger.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000007.pdf
JK- I dont care what Lane mentions when the Quran's statements clearly prove otherwise as ive shown. This is a sectarian concept and lane although it contains many neutral meanings it does at times also mention the sectarian understandings.
This is where God mentions prophets who are in general terms we do not know who they were or their names.
384 Say ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit.?
JK- This verse doesnt say that those other Prophets are not mentioned in the Quran. Could be that those in other verses of the Quran are meant. Thus this statement is not equal to the ones i quoted.
Below is how prophet hood and messengers are being mentioned.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Scripture and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice. And We sent down the iron, wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would distinguish those who would support Him and His messengers on faith. God is Powerful, Noble.
5726 And We had sent Noah and Abraham, and We placed in their progeny the prophethood and the Scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked.
5727 Then We sent in their tracks Our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and We gave him the Injeel, and We ordained in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented Monasticism which We never decreed for them. They wanted to please God, but they did not observe it the way it should have been observed. Consequently, We gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.Prophet hood and messengers are being distinguished.
689 Those to whom We have given the Scripture, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
Giving of the scripture and the law signifies a messenger who is also a prophet. If there is no difference so why would God mention them in verses in such a way.
JK- You showed verses proving that scripture is associated with prophethood. I agree messenger Prophets bring news in form of Scripture and confirm it too whilst messengers who are not prophets merely confirm an existing scripture as made clear per 381. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny_k,
JK- I dont care what Lane mentions when the Quran's statements clearly prove otherwise as ive shown. This is a sectarian concept and lane although it contains many neutral meanings it does at times also mention the sectarian understandings.
There is no any hadith that I have ever heard that indicates the difference between prophets and messengers. Please quote me one. All commentators have derived all their understanding from the Quran.
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Peace "abrar",
Peace Jonny_k,
There is no any hadith that I have ever heard that indicates the difference between prophets and messengers. Please quote me one. All commentators have derived all their understanding from the Quran.
JK- Oh really? Then please explain to me why the Quran ALWAYS uses these terms in the following manner "BASHARAN rassoolan", bashar being common, "SIDDIQAN nabiyyan", siddiq being common and "RASSOLAN nabbiyan", where according to the previous two RASOOL and not nabi must be common. You cannot deny this clear order arranaged by GOD plus all the other verses i used to prove that a messenger need not be a prophet. GOD Bless!
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Peace "abrar",
JK- Oh really? Then please explain to me why the Quran ALWAYS uses these terms in the following manner "BASHARAN rassoolan", bashar being common, "SIDDIQAN nabiyyan", siddiq being common and "RASSOLAN nabbiyan", where according to the previous two RASOOL and not nabi must be common. You cannot deny this clear order arranaged by GOD plus all the other verses i used to prove that a messenger need not be a prophet. GOD Bless!
Im with Jonny K on this.
456These are Gods revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which narration after God and His revelations do they believe?
