I don't mind if you guys go off-topic on my topic. But this discussion is kinda too long to read.

Can anyone tell me in short what this discussion is about ?

and your point is ?

The difference between RK and the messengers mentioned from the Quran RK claimed to be the messenger only after he had gained followers. Many leaders of modern cults for example Ahmadiyya claimed their messengerhood only after they gained support/power.

That verse doesnt say that so please stop messing around with the translation.

Your post is useless when you dont post any arguments.

XD you wont change your mind anytime soon I guess.

Anyways, heaven or the world after death would be ideal if my parents and siblings are happy, and if I'm with them then that would be awesome. A sexy hot blonde wouldn't hurt too (I'm an Arab it's in my nature ;P)

Parents and siblings to be happy ? You can forget about that. There is a Quran verse that says that the family-ties are gone on the Day of judgement we will forget about our family and not ask for our family on the day of judgement. We would only see our fellow believers as a family. I am sorry bro.

Sad story but it makes sense. The family-ties only exists for survival on earth, it is not a necessary thing in the afterlife. Feel sorry for the hadith-believers who think they have to pray and sing from the Quran to get their deceased familymembers to paradise.... lol

When the horn is blown, no family relations will exist between them on that day, nor will they ask about one another.

I remember being called a Quranist on Ummah forum since I was the biggest troll there. lead me to watch some RK videos and read his stuff, I believe he went insane later on and used hadith to justify many things, added alot of theories not mentioned in the Quran. He had a scary face too

I believe since all of you want to learn and discover more, study Arabic on the side and compare different translations later on. I wish I had time to improve my Arabic even though I'm Egyptian but soon I will.

True isn't it ? At some point the translations will nolonger satisfy and the need to learn old-Arabic on your own gets bigger and bigger. I don't know where and how I should start with this. I fear a teacher would teach me all the Arabic words wrong. Because he would be a hadith-follower or for whatever bad reason. I guess I just wait and pray to God to put me on the right track regarding understanding the Quran. But sometimes I wonder... were we humans ever supposed to fully understand the Quran in some point in our short life ?

I wonder, even how much despicable the hadith-believers are, in the end they all turned to hadiths because the Quran could not satisfy them They couldn't understand it and in their despair for truth they turned to the Hadiths... sad events. Sad history. What should we do, when we don't understand the meaning of a Quran verse or the way to interpret it ?

Peace everyone -- verse 2215 came up in another thread and the issue in translation is mostly inconsistency, lack of cross-reference, context, and inserting words not present in the text especially this case concerning those who are on the edge of faith?

Did you reach a conclusion about 2215 when you checked the photo's of the old manuscript ? What is your conclusion on it ? I can't help you with this because I have no Arabic knowledge, sadly.

O you who believe, do not prohibit the good things which God has made lawful for you, and do not aggress; God does not like the aggressors.

In that case it is futile to discuss this further as I cannot see how it is possible for you to judge /have an opinion on something you have not read,not willing to read!!!!
Your view sound bias to me,since you are not being fair.
GOD bless you.
Peace

I also haven't read the Hadith's so does that mean I am not allowed to talk about the hadiths ? The Quran is very clear about the usage of hadiths. Reading the hadith just to please others would make me a hypocrite.

Also somehow you think that I said that I have read all verses of RK's translation ? I never said that and I will never plan to read his translation.
My first Quran-translation was filled with notes from imams and hadiths. Does that mean that I should keep that Quran only because a handfull verses are correct translated ? I doubt it.

Peace Dakhan.
You mean you agree with the rest of his translation? In other words if he did not claim to be a messenger you would have kept /agreed with his translation?

Peace. I haven't read the rest of RK's translation. I had read the full article of http//www.quranaloneislam.net/rashad-khalifa-exposed which claimed that RK added his own name to the Quran translation. All I did was a search-command on RK's translation to check if it was true or not. I have no desire to read his translation because I am already reading the translation from quran-islam.org. Surely since two verses are removed from this new translation just like from RK I will definitely not claim it to be the best translation. But just like how RK's translation was once the best translation available at the time, it is the same with the translation of quran-islam.org I haven't seen a better version of it so far. But I do not feel loyalty to a translation, my loyality is only to God and when I come across a better translation I will switch to next best translation without hesitation.

You should stop defending RK's translation and always be critical of what you read. Don't become a sheep.

Peace.

I hope this will help to answer all your questions about Hijab. Your explanation of 2430 and 2431 are also being disputed in this article.

http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/women_dress_code_(P1150).html

No need to talk about subjective stuff like "dignity" it really depends on culture.

Peace Dakhan.

You mean RK got that verse translated right according to your footnote?
I wonder why throw away all of RK s translation then?
Like I said I found some of his work inspired. The best out the hundreds of translations I have studied.In fact the majority of today s translators are copying his work.
GOD S invisible forces that guard Qoran will not allow any insincere person to have access to Qoran. RK must have been sincere at least?
The sad thing is some are copying him and discrediting him at the same time. Strange.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

In a group convo, the translator of the Quran I am using (translated by the admin of quran-islam.org) had this to say about RK's translation when I confronted him about RK's translation-errors

The translation of RK, even though contains numerous errors, yet is a very sincere translation and delivers the message of the book perfectly well. In addition, unlike all the translation that were available at the time of RK, it is not influenced by, nor promotes hadith whatsoever.
It was for that reason that when I launched my site (17 years ago) it was the best translation available at the time.

Here is a example how the Quran I am using is translated A member in the google-group questioned the new Quran-translation and preferred RK's translation of verse 3357. The admin of Quran-Islam.org responded to the member with the following post

Salaam *****,
Thank you for your comment.
When I translate the Quran I like to be consistent with words I translate rather than translate them differently in various verses, unless we have clear evidence that a word in the Quran has more than one meaning (like for example the words Salat and Zakat).

The word "Yu'thoon" means to cause Atha ... Atha in Arabic means harm.
We cannot get away from this meaning.
So "Yu'thoon" means to cause harm.

I see your point that using "oppose" suits the context of 3357 better since no one can harm God.

But the way I understand this verse is that the disbelievers "think" that they are harming God by harming His messenger ... so the intention of harm is in their minds, but as you said no one can harm God.

This is not any different from the phrasing in the following verse

They attempt to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves without realising it.

In theory, no one can deceive God, but they "think" they are doing it ....
this is the same in 3357 .... they "think" they are harming God, but they can never do that, all they do is harm themselves.

The reason I reject RK's translation is because he added his name in some verses, to back-up his claim for being a messenger, for example

We have sent you (O Rashad) to this community, just as we did
for other communities in the past. You shall recite to them what we
reveal to you, for they have disbelieved in the Most Gracious. Say,
"He is my Lord. There is no god except He. I put my trust in Him
alone; to Him is my ultimate destiny."

We have sent messengers before you (O Rashad), and we made
them husbands with wives and children. No messenger can produce a
miracle without GOD's authorization, and in accordance with a
specific, predetermined time.

We have sent you (Rashad) as a deliverer of good news, as well
as a warner.

We have sent you (O Rashad) to all the people, a bearer of
good news, as well as a warner, but most people do not know.

Say, "I ask you to do one thing Devote yourselves to GOD, in
pairs or as individuals, then reflect. Your friend (Rashad) is not
crazy. He is a manifest warner to you, just before the advent of a
terrible retribution."

Are they saying, "He (Rashad) has fabricated lies about GOD!"?
If GOD willed, He could have sealed your mind, but GOD erases the
falsehood and affirms the truth with His words. He is fully aware of
the innermost thoughts.

Your friend (Rashad) is not crazy.

Peace Dakhan.

Have you got a better translation out there than RK? If you have please provide it so we can compare.
And before you rush judging people as idolising this and that, my aim is to compare the translation of the Arabic verses one by one.
We can all easily claim anything. We need to demonstrate our claim from Qoran,then we can use the verses to consolidate our claim.

Peace, I will look into a way of how I can upload that translation. But I will wait first till that translation is finished. Currently it is in the revision phase, which means the verses are each by each being re-checked for any translation-mistakes.

For example ,to date I have not found a better translation for this verse
2215
If anyone thinks that God cannot support him in this life and in the Hereafter, let him turn completely to (his Creator in) heaven, and sever (his dependence on anyone else). He will then see that this plan eliminates anything that bothers him.

Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace

Interesting, that the verse you give is one of the few verses that got a footnote attached to it. I will forward it to you

For the one who thinks that God will not support him in this world and in the Hereafter, let him reach out to the sky with his cause, then sever all else. Then let him see if his action removes what aggravates him.

Footnote 2215 ? This verse has been subject to various misinterpretations. Some claiming that God is advising us to dangle a rope from the ceiling and hang ourselves! Obviously this can never be the correct understanding since it would contradict with the Quranic prohibition of taking any life except in the course of justice. These glorious words in actual fact provide a great test for all people with regards to how much they trust and depend on God. God invites anyone who doubts God?s support in this life or the Hereafter, to turn to the sky (in prayer to God) and sever his dependence on anyone else. He should then look and see if this action removes what has been aggravating him or not.

Interesting... sounds like Quran + RK cult....

welcome

Thanks. In the beginning they were alert though Unlike submission.org and masjidtucson.org they said they do not glorify RK himself. But since they attributed more verses to RK then RK himself originally did, I knew the line between them was getting thinner by the day. Before I suggested to remove RK's translation from the website, I preferred no translations from the Quran instead using a bogus one like from RK. But they refused.

Welcome.

You followed your inner compass...... usually a good thing. We are all in a learning phase, it never ends.

Yes I did. You must have seen how surprised I was when I found like-minded people (other Quran-alone believers). I thought I was alone !

Phase one of "Operation Convert Ummah Forum" is complete! Muahahahahahaha!! voodoo elektro

Welcome to the forum brother. )

Thank you !

ught about that. How did you even find out about it to begin with if it's private? Why is it private? Is it still active? How many people?

I would say they got around 110 members. So far the members entered the group after they contacted the admin with their personal questions (admin the owner of the website, his e-mail is on the website) Before they get access they face trial-questions like "what is the correct form of Shahada and how many times a day do you pray". The group is exclusive because they don't want a discussion-group but a group with only like-minded fellows. Frequently there are members who get kicked because they turned out to be on the wrong path.
I can give a few examples

• One guy got kicked because he saw the Torah still as the word of God even though the Quran says it got corrupted. He didn't like the fact that tattoo was not forbidden in the Quran like in his beloved Torah.
• Another guy got kicked because he considered the bible, torah as books from God, together with the Quran. He had started separate Facebook groups; each group for each book.
• Generally making statements without evidence from the Quran can get you warnings with the risk of being removed from the group

Sometimes members asks to be removed themselves

• One member asked to be removed when he refused to believe RK was a messenger from God
• One member removed himself when he believed his input to improve the Quran-translation was ignored, even though his Arabic knowledge was bad.

And yes the group is still active. I am still in it's whatsapp-group which is hosted by a separate member.

Thank you all ! I will surely check this place out and make some posts here and there later.

Heya,

I am a male, 26 years old, born and living in the Netherlands (indian/surinam background), single -\

I was random posting on Ummah.com when I received private messages from Comrox asking from what Quran-only community I come from.
Told her I was kicked from my previous quran-only community and that I was now wandering around lonely on sunni-forums to gently poke at them with my Quran-only believes. I did this to forget my loneliness. She told me about free-minds.org, I gave a quick look and I told her I am not looking for a "home" that is filled with hadith-muslims. She said that I looked wrong and that the main people here are quran-only. So today I have arrived to interact with you guys. I hope I can find like-minded brothers/sisters here.

How I found Quran-Islam

I am from a sunni-family, but before you say "Oh he was Sunni" then allow me to tell you that I was never ever Sunni. You see, I was always in a learning phase of Islam. My parents are slow teachers.
I was just blindly following my family without questions. But always very sceptical. I never was amused that I had to listen to imams and I always saw their arrogance face when they were praising the prophet or everytime yelling/saying "ahamdullilah, allah hu akbur, subanala, inshalah etc"... such things really gets me annoyed. No idea why. It just annoys me, they say these stuff to make themselves appear as a holy saint, which they are only on the outside with their cloths and beard but on the inside they are just "ugly".

I was close in abandoning Islam, when your a university student, you come at a point in your life where you need to choose I am soon entering a professional life, would this religion still have a place in my life ? I could never figure it out, because things had changed when I lost my older brother (drug-addict etc). I was full of sadness I locked myself in my bedroom, concealed myself from social life and started reading a book which I had for years in my bedroom but never bothered to open it The Quran. For the first time I opened up the Quran in my room (Dutch-translated Quran full of dust) and started reading... and it was glorious beautiful. It felt like I found life in a dark world. I felt reborn. It piss me off that my parents never motivated me to read it.

While I was reading the Quran, I wasn't a true Quran-Only believer yet. I still followed the practices of my family/local mosque/Sunni-style. But there are two things I strongly disagreed with that made me a true Quran-Only believer

1. The hadiths. I am honest I did not even knew my parents and family were following other books then the Quran. I thought every muslim was only following the Quran. So yeah, I was shocked when I visited Dutch islamic forums that muslims were following hadiths. Back then I did not know it was also possible to follow Islam without using hadiths... I blamed Islam itself and almost quit my religion (I wasn't reading Quran back then).

2. The way how we prayed I had to pray 5 times a week in a damn language I did not even understand... and that piss me off. I am big fan of history books and documentaries. From this I know that "forcing people to pray 5 times in a day will make it easier to keep them obedient at their king". Ofcourse I loved the peace-feeling I get when praying. But in the end it piss me off that I had to mumble arabic words I did not understood. I decided to get on google to find some satisfying alternative or a argument to stop praying 5 times a day. It did not make any sense at all and it was wasting plenty of my time, especially repeating ra'kaats. I found this youtube-video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ql4pPgAbDU from Quran-Islam.org. I contacted the admin to tell me more about it.

My glorious time within the Quran-islam.org Community-group
3 weeks later I became a member of a closed/hidden google-group from Quran-Islam.org. I felt blessed from god. I learned so much about Quran-Only Islam while being in that group. I found many sisters and brothers. I felt freedom and I was happy I found the true Islam. I threw away my dutch-translated Quran because it was invested with notations from hadiths and translations which are based from hadiths. Instead I used a new translated Quran from the google-group (still not published on quran-islam.org). I let go all those human-made customs and my faith in God increased while the burden of following Islam became lighter.

But then dark times arrived. I disagreed with the owner of the website, the leader of our google-group I did not believe in the code 19 miracle and I belied Rashad Khan was just a fraud who benefited from the faults of the sunni/shia muslims. I don't believe he is a messenger. With this I lost my connection with many of my brothers and sisters at quran-islam.org. Some of them e-mailed me after I was kicked because they loved me, and I still love them. But after a technical-discussion about "How can we be sure that the location of Mecca from the Quran is the current Mecca we have in this world ?" We were just philosophizing about the technical aspects of Mecca, but the admin had enough of it and declared me as a troublemaker, and I got kicked from the group.

Now I am happy that I got out from Quran-Islam.org because I heard afterwards from other members that he attributed more verses to Rashad Khan with arguments that sounds childish too me.
He has not published those pages on Quran-Islam.org, out of respect for him I will not reveal those until he does it. I still e-mail him now and then, in the end he is still a lovely and intelligent man who knows how to translate the Quran without any bias from hadiths and without changing the words of God. Quran-islam.org is a good website except for the code 19 and Rashad Khan part.

So now you all know my story. My family was first very harsh on me when I told them that I don't follow hadiths, but now they are nice again too me. They couldn't stay long mad at me as they know I would not joke about it or anything. But yeah... I was and will never be able to convince them about the truth. But that's what being a Quran-muslim is all about

You cannot guide the ones you love. GOD is the only One who
guides in accordance with His will, and in accordance with His
knowledge of those who deserve the guidance.

Nice to meet you all, brothers and sisters ;D