The arabic word "D-r-b" word is exactly equivalent to...
A. the english word "beat".
where "...to beat upon someone" means
I. leaving someone, abandoning someone
II. hitting someone
B. english "hit"
...which has the exact same meaning as A
When push comes to shove it's a matter of what fits the context best. I know what I see it as.
Bedroud Lobster,
peace el aziz,
isn't it possible that imran is not the same as amram and is a completely unrelated word? or it has been modified in such a way that it's meaning does fit the context? I dunno. I think it's worth considering.
It is worth considering, yes. )
However there?s, in my opinion, no doubt that and hebrew are the very same. One example is that they ?both? share the daughter , sister of and .
Does this make sense to you?
Br. Aziz,
i think you need realisation that there is a big difference between the two examples you are talking about. That the names in the Arabic lingo which may well be from Hebrew or something simile have common meanings is that their origins are the same.
Its like Urdu its origin is Arabic and Persian - and you may find so many Urdu words with 100% same meanings as you will find in the Arabic Language.
But some that are from Persian language may sound like Arabic words but will have slightly different meanings.
Thanks.
your example isnt sufficient since urdu is an indo-aryan language and arabic is a semitic one. however, it's not very crucial...
when you find a proper name of non-arabic origin does it seem natural to most people to check out their meaning in that very non-arabic language but you clearly wanna take the arabic detour and i dont see the point S
how about "your retardation is a certainty"? how would you say that?
somebody's jealous of us not using the same old "borrowed hebrew names" theory
someone did clearly not get the picture.
i have no idea who this jealous person would be so how about you talk directly to me or that person?
speaking of theories, i don't understand where you got the "everything within arabic context is of arabic origin" theory from. why is it that you guys treat everything to be invented at the very time the Koran was compiled?!
btw, most hebrew names arent even hebrew but even elder.
shantih nadeem,
Peace El-Aziz,
I did not make up anything. I referred to the "Dictionary of the holy quran" by Abdul Mannan Omar, thus providing sources for the information I put forth.
Nadeem
You looked at an arabic word and not the origin of a proper name (the proper name's origin is not arabic, as you may already know). You did not look at 3mran but a word that seemed to have the same root while the root of 3mran is a transcript of a compound.
If I wrote "like a collector" in arabic it could be written as a compound - "ke-l?m"/"ka-l?m" or "" and still you would be able to misread it as the word spelled exactly the same and as you probably know means "talking".
My name is usually spelled in arabic while I prefer the spelling or even with a shadda, thus , which could be read as "he's gonna be diversed " which is not the meaning of my name - it's in fact greek of origin.
You cannot come up with new meanings to things that are already explained at least a thousand years earlier. Period.
/S
Salaams Br,
sorry but to me they are Arabic names - and i wouldn't break it down thinking it was anything but.
I don't think i would use foreign words in a book i was writing and the writer of the quran is far far wiser then someone like me or you - i think.
Thanks though.
God Bless.
So if non-arabic names all of a sudden becomes arabic when put into arabic context, they turn arabic in origin; etymology and meaning? That's really something man!
Here's a question for someone with your expertise and insight in other languages through arabic language.
I did some "research" of my own and found out that the meaning of the city of Hudiksvall (http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudiksvall) where I was born, actually means "your retardation is a question". Agree or not?
Hi Br's,
One who loves righteousness = Abraham, is made from Barra (example 2177) and Hamma.
Ishmael is a combination of sami a Allah = Whom Allah heard or who heard Allah.
Abraham saved Moses from slaughter.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14136.0
What is Bait = it?s a group of people related, somehow to one another.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13255.msg110792#msg110792
So what was it that Abraham (225 and Moses (2836) did that is in common to them both? As it says both built the house!
They both argued/discussed/debated the issues of people, the Israelites and people in general to/with Pharaoh.
Moses was Ishmael which is a quality of an individual.
Let?s see which other people set up the bait to vie with one another like Abraham and Moses.
Gandhi, Qaid-e-azam, Leningrad shipyard workers, Nelson Mandela e.t.c
It?s a strange thing when people keep taking abuse like did the Israelites for 40 years after Moses left them.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13498.msg113938#msg113938
Even Hitler got the better of them and they got slaughtered like cattle.
People have to stand up and be counted but peaceably unless it?s to protect oneself.
So Assemblies/peaceful confrontation to vie with one another to remove the unrighteous matters from communities is the AL-BAIT. Started up by Abraham and Moses.
If we take Allah = Life Force, then everything falls in place ? I think.
Thanks.
I don't really get it, why waste time on trying to brake down non-arabic names to arabic?
shlama,
DoQ Ain Meem Ra To inhabit, dwell, mend, repair, build, promote, culticate, make habitable, perform a sacred visitation, populate.
3mrn is equivalent to the proper (hebrew) name 3mrm and means exhalted nation or rather exhalted tribe. It can be compared to Av-RAM which was the original name of Abraham.
You cant make up meanings from proper names that already have meanings man!
/S
There is nothing wrong with using outside sources to understand the quran as long as the information is verified and the interpretation makes sense and goes along with the rest of the quran.
peace .
To verify whether the outside information about a particular topic goes along with the rest of the Koran or not, we first need to know what the Koran says about that topic .
So if the Koran doesn't specify anything about the topic?
peace .
i have edited the title of thread a bit "who are the Bani Israeel according to the Koran?"
since you are not helping at all , it will be helpful if you quit this thread.
thanks and peace.
I could see why you changed the header. Here's just one piece of advice on your quest for knowledge of whatever kind.
It is sometimes important to understand why one asks a specific question, as...
Do I want to understand what's Britain's best party? or Do I want to know what's Britain's best party according to Tony Blair?
It's important to know that some sources provide answers that are correct whilst some does not, and understanding the difference when limiting one self to a discourse that may not contain the necessary answers.
Good luck with your children of Israel research!
/S
peace al-Aziz.
Saladin,
I'm sorry, but this is about one of the most central terms there are in judaism. Trying to understand the history by means of something but the history itself is useless.
So what book is the one of G-d? And how can you know for sure?
Koran . and this is not "quranic divinity" section . i m not discussing "proof of quran's divinty" .
The same thing goes for the Koran aswell. Not you nor myself did actually supervise the process of compiling it from its original and stuff. Agree? It will only explain itself in a most pragmatic sense as in what it contains is its content and that can this far speak for its own content. However, it all has a background. Some things about certain prophets in the Koran are extremly suspicious. Some stories have specific backgrounds (as the one of Abraham smashing the idols, taken from the "story version" - b're'sh?th rab?" - of Genesis), and some just evolved whilst people were telling them. It does not imply that its more accurate because its at least 1600 younger. Nor does it imply there's more of a chance that it is a book of G-d.
i was trying to understand it from the koran . not from judaism or torah.
Let me know what you have understood from ban? 'sra?l based on the Koran using no other help, ok?
i will tell u when i reach a conclusion .
And moreover, let me know how much you can read from "...trying to understand it from the Quran alone", meaning also its language. How did you reach the conclusion that b?b means "gate" or "door "...from the Quran alone"? Let me know how this explains itself and once you do that, I will forever and ever follow Koran alone!
i was discussing "bani israel" according to the koran , not "how koran explains itself" .
peace.
Nor was I talking about the claimed divinity of the Koran, it was you that just brought it up. You said "the book of G-d/Allah" and I just repeated your statement. Aren't you happy with it now all of a sudden?
Then as you say that the Bible (I kind of stick with the Hebrew side of it but that's kind of irrelevant) is full of lies, says who? According to and with reference to what? And isn't that reference also in proportion to other sources? So how can one person distinguish that "this is 'the book of Allah'"?
Its impossible to understand something that is not "virgin borned" from the Koran by means of Koran.
The Koran does not claim to explain "ban? 'sra?l" within itself so I think it's safe for you to call off the search by now.
Saladin,
I'm sorry, but this is about one of the most central terms there are in judaism. Trying to understand the history by means of something but the history itself is useless.
So what book is the one of G-d? And how can you know for sure?
The T?r? (not the whole bible) contains numerous changes from the original as the two words for "lamb" being keseb and kebes - obviously a typo!
The same thing goes for the Koran aswell. Not you nor myself did actually supervise the process of compiling it from its original and stuff. Agree? It will only explain itself in a most pragmatic sense as in what it contains is its content and that can this far speak for its own content. However, it all has a background. Some things about certain prophets in the Koran are extremly suspicious. Some stories have specific backgrounds (as the one of Abraham smashing the idols, taken from the "story version" - b're'sh?th rab?" - of Genesis), and some just evolved whilst people were telling them. It does not imply that its more accurate because its at least 1600 younger. Nor does it imply there's more of a chance that it is a book of G-d.
If it wouldnt be for the language inherited, no one would understand that lis?n is the same as lash?n or lash?n?, agree? So does culture, religious culture included, pass on to new forms of these languages and cultures.
Let me know what you have understood from ban? 'sra?l based on the Koran using no other help, ok? And moreover, let me know how much you can read from "...trying to understand it from the Quran alone", meaning also its language. How did you reach the conclusion that b?b means "gate" or "door "...from the Quran alone"? Let me know how this explains itself and once you do that, I will forever and ever follow Koran alone!
kind regards,
/S
Peace,
yes, but the name has a history.
yes , and a very silly one , from what i have read in Genesis 3225-28 .
but i forget you look at things differently.....
yes , i was trying to understand it from the Quran . it shouldnt need bible or hadiths for explanations .
peace.
Man, you cannot understand something from the Koran when the origin is not Koranic. B'ney 'isra?l (or ban? 'sra'?l) is the nation - also known as the jews, the very same thing - that is said to have been established by Jacob after the name he was given by G-d in Genesis 3229
And he said 'Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed.'
What you're telling is that you reject the term's history whilst trying to understand it.
Hadiths are not gonna help you on this one. However, since the T?r? is the origin, it is most likely the best place to search for an answer.
kind regards,
S
Hello Zenje,
El-Aziz,
Anyone interested in the nature of G-d knows that the sensation thereof is a relative one and beyond something that a book can ever speak of. This is a phenomena that the Koran also denotes.
Could please clarify what you mean, with a verse or two? Thanks.
My experience of the Lord is something I can write about whilst it is nearly impossible to mediate 100% this experience to someone else by may it be pictures, words, spoken language etc...
Agreed 100%. Your words or mine would have little or no effect to others when talking of experiences. The God's words however...
G-d has caused many great individuals to write about it, and to write about others who have had this experience. Though we can never fully grasp what G-d is but on our own. To comprehend others' vision is simply not to see it by yourself. Nor is to read a recipe never actually to eat the dish, or watching an image of a fruit is not actualy touching it.
Again, others have written in their own words, their experiences, and I have learnt a lot from such books, but as you point out, that is not to be confused with the experience itself.
Seek G-d with the help of others, meet G-d yourself
Well said. This does, in no way, discount God's words though.
I'm not sure I understood any of your response to my post. If you want me to respond (which I gladely would like to), I would appreciate if you summarized your response instead of breaking it down into fragments.
Thanks in advantage!
/S
I didnt say walking only , in any stance or posture the way a woman keeps her legs whether
apart / moving / crossing( Did elke mention about basic instinct) / one leg up
and if that can reveal her hidden attractions ( part of the body , curves, out line, figure).
Hope I am clear.
I guess I am more adult than you. just kidding. No offence meant.
Ok, it may be that I'm the one not expressing myself clear enough.
I suggested that this verse is not implying the Darab-ing refering to something visual as on a police station when smoking, walking on the streets, standing in any posture - but rather what happens when a women spreads her legs. Understand me now?
2914 And We had sent Noah to his people, so he stayed with them one thousand less fifty years. Then the flood took them while they were wicked.
So he lived till the age of 950, did our ages deteriorate (sp?) over time? What are you guys' thoughts?
Predictionsomeone will claim that this is an 'allegory' of some sort
An allegory indeed,
????, ?? ???? ???, ??? ??? ??????, ????; ????
And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died
(Genesis 929)
This text is not refering to a person, but a period of time. The name of this era is "rest" or "comfort", hebrew Noach. Though I cannot see why the author of this verse writes that it was after Noah's death that the flood came, since he was on it.
Sadiqi Stephene is convered to Judaism and thats the way they write God. He is a nice guy.
In fact, my friend - I was born jewish...
is writing g-d instead of God a sort of sense of humour or somethin?
please let me know so I laugh
Sadiqi Stephene is convered to Judaism and thats the way they write God. He is a nice guy.
is that how the jews write God?, I learn something new every day, i wonder if they believe in G-d as they claim
Salam
Oh yes, you're absolutely spot on! We have made fun of ourselves for the last 3000 years and we mock by some of us don't write the name of G-d. Can you believe what hilarious things we come up with and our believers still call themselves monotheists!? rotfl
One thing... When you write "sal?m" after the very sentence where you showed someone a severe lack of respect, do you feel seriously peaceful with that word, is it that you can hug someone like your brother having just spat on a person the very preceding moment? Does this make you feel proud and peaceful, not to mention "sal?m-ely" credible in the eyes of others? Just give it a thought, will you...
I wish all people could show each other as much love and understanding as you, Ahmed Baghat, show disrespect - then this world would be a beautiful one to live in.
Peace el-aziz
I guess we are talking two different subjects here. I mean we are on different frequencies.
Old enough.
Obviously, you don't pay attention to what I say.
You suggested that separating the woman's legs refered to her as she is walking or sitting, i e when being observed in some way. On top of this excellent observation of the verb "D-r-b"'s meaning, I proposed to extend this meaning (since there's nothing in the text suggesting she is walking or sitting) to separating her legs seen from an intimate aspect and not public one. "...don't spread 'em", that is.
peace
Why do some people online spell God as G-D, Just curious
...
Because of many things, but most important do we (as jews, being the G-d shmoks) not want the name of G-d to be misused. Leonardo da Vinci did similar things sometimes with his inventions, creating something in the drawings making the invention useless.
Also, in the Tor?, the name (also known as hashem) is not spelled out with the vowel signs (niqud) and is usually transcribed when translated as y-h-v-h.
Among most jews, this is not common. It is mainly the minority of orthodox jews that don't spell out G-d.
Moreover, it reminds me that there's no such thing as a real "name of G-d".
No offence elke and peace be on you.
Peace everybody.
Letting in too easily and moving the legs.....
Only way you can let some one in is through marraige, easily or otherwise.
If you let anyone in for money or gratification or because you are fast loose and easy or want to be accepted that is called zina. Its dealt sepatarely.
Right, so you believe that there's nothing between a woman committing to a man through a ritual and selling the pleasures of her body for money? Give me a break...
You said the word "commitment"
...being a synonym "for marriage (the word you used)". As an adult (that I assume you are), can you just cut to the chase!