Hann

Fair enough however i just want to comment on the manuscripts.
there is some difference in manuscripts, how about hafs and warsh?
Also the scripts of Arabic have developed/changed over time.

Yes, right. But "The Quran" is not only a written book. At first, it's just a memorized doctrine.
So if you give me a different recited(kiraat) and different meaning-recited Quran example, then i can say this The Sacred one is not an alphabet nor a sound. The Sacred one is doctrine/meaning.

"....He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded" 1690

Peace.

Hann
So hadith has a weak leg attached to its ?authentic dating?, what about Quran?

Is the earlier the preservation the more comforting for truthfulness? what is the earliest preservation? The recording might be accurate but does that mean Quran is authentic to you? Why believe in it?

Dear SarahY,

We can find some early Quran manuscripts. And also in a large of different area, there's no difference between quran manuscripts. You could guess the reliability of manuscripts or hadith(such as storical parol news).

In my opinion, the earliest preservation is high proximity rate of The Prophet's teachings. Nevertheless, there can be non-clear/misunderstood teachings, but relibility has a high proximity rate of The Prophet's teachings...

Quran and other Books teach us a theory of life being and death. And there's no alternative legitimate theory for afterdeath. That's why i believe in it.

Thanks bro, really well done!

.... and come up with your own understanding.

....even Arab people writes the meanings in english differently.

You alright!
You can also have a look this one http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602808.0

Salaam,

Btw "sukaara" does not mean "drunk", the word used for intoxication is "khamar" 2219
Mohammed M. Khan

Wa ssalaam brother.

Thank you.
Indeed, I share the same opinion with you. But unfortunatelly the majority is absolutely opposite to this approach. I am so confused and i feel an obligatory to learn arabic. However, even if i learned it, i know i couldn't feel the meaning as it's my native one...

What is the reason for understanding Quran's verses different from us about "arabic language" verses?

May Allah get us to The guided way.

ADDITION http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

= Siin-Kaf-Ra = intoxicated, inebriated, drunken, violent/angry, full/still/motionless/calm, abolish, do away with, be dim, dazzled, rage against, be confused of judgement, bewildered, hindrance, bar, obstacle, obstruction, prevention, brake or stoppage between a person and his understanding and wits and he takes a wrong decision, become silly or blockhead, fail to understand, become cursed in intellect, lose one's wits, dam, to shut or close up, burn/hot, dazzle/cover/confuse, grief, any disturbing element which may distract one's attention or observe one's reason, in a state of mental disequilibrium, one who has no sense as he is in raptures of love/passion/amour, sugar, sweet substance, very sweet date, sakr - sugar.

sakar n.m. 1667

sakrah n.f. 1572, 5019

sukara n.m. (pl. sakran) 443, 222, 222

sakkara vb. (2) perf. pass. 1515

3. see my previous post.

Oh, I'm sorry. I see now.
So, what is your advice for non-arabics? And Salat language?

First Generation
571-632 Muhammad
599-661 Ali (the 4. khalif)
602-680 Muawiyah
607-697 Jabir ibn Abd-Allah (he might be the latest died sahaba, as i could found)
? -725(?) Amr ibn vassal (mentioned as the last sahaba but i am not sure when he died )

Second/Third Generation
699-767 Ab anfa
711-795 Malik ibn Anas
767-820 Al-Shafi?i
780-855 Ahmad ibn Hanbal

Hadith authors
810-870 al-Bukhari
817-889 Abu Dawud
821-875 Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj
824-892 Tirmidhi
824-887 Ibn Majah
830-916 Al-Nasa'i
........................................................(source collected from wikipedia)

If you notice that there is a gap for nearly 200 years after the first genereation to the Hadith era...
And there are no reliable sources from the first generation. Especially early khalifs didn't give permission for hadith... And 200 years past from the first generation then there was a distinguished hadith era

Because of the fact, i can't rely on these source. I don't deny all of them but my master source is Quran. And if there is an antinomy between quran and hadith, i don't care this kind of hadith...

May Allah guide all of us.
Peace.

...If you dont understand Arabic, you are in breach of 443.

1- Do you assume that Arabic is sacred?
2- And do you believe that every muslim has to learn Arabic?
3- And do you belive that there is no need to understand the meaning of Salat's words but only necessity of kalam-lafhz...? (though 443)

@OPF

you may be right. But i think, PradoxU has a philosophical approach for the argument. He/She assumes that we are not apart from God. We are the One and we belong to God. So, the distinctive features of us is consciousness from God.

Nevertheless, we should be careful regardless of the fact.

Thanks for the reminder and may the god guide us all to what is best

Thanks brother.
This is the most valuable prayer for us. Amen.

Ofcourse. But the question was an accusation; insinuating that the god's scripture was tampered with and written by different authors. At least that's how I understood it.

Ok but, muslims should guide themselves by discussions. Also, muslims should guide non-muslims who ask...

If you know the right answer, there's no need to blame the question. There's absolutely need the peaceful and rational answers. I think all of us are individual belivers. God's Truth is given to everyone in a different style and amount.

...Such is the guidance of Allah. He guides therewith whom He pleases,(4279) but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.(3923)

Peace all.

Peace all,

"who is speaking in the Quran.." is a good and realistic question. All believers can read it in a positive manner, but if you consider the meaning of all verses that resemble like a conversation, you generally get surprise "who is speaking?"

God, Gabriel, Prophet or ...?
I'd prefer a rationalistic answer than reactioned one...

Salam.

Peace all!

We all generally pray(salat) in arabic language as known. Yes i know, there should be an international shared language but if we pray(salat) alone, is it real necessity to pray in non-native language(arabic)?

And do we have to learn a non-native language(arabic) for communicating with God?
Because, most of muslims prefer to pray in arabic, even if they are not in salat, just normal praying.