Salam/peace,

This may seem funny/unrealistic but NASA is building a space camp on the moon permanently scheduled for 2024.

http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061204-moon-base.html

salam

maybe God will reveal further scripture?

salam

The Quranic verse is

159
(159) As regards this Admonition, it is We Who have sent it down, and We Ourself will preserve it. *

No doubt Quran was preserved.Was this preservation
-- Through "LAWS OF NATURE '
-- Without i.e violating "LAWS OF NATURE.
Please do explain .Thanks

salam

God makes the "laws of nature" whatever He wills. therefore there is no such thing as violating them.

salam

salam

God is the One True Judge. we merely speculate.

salam

salam

very simple. if the astronaught can see earth, he faces towards it. if earth is obscured by another celestial (or other) body, he ascertains earth's direction and faces it.

whether God asks us to face mecca is seperate question, but if He did, it would be as simple as that.

salam

You'll have to wait till xmas and then only if you've been a good boy .

We'll see if it can be done.

oh goodie!

i must try extra hard to be good angel

thanks in advance S.C. yay

???

Whether it first qibla was in Jerusaleum or somewhere else ,it does not matter.Let us suppose it was any qibla "X" .Whatsoever it was it was ordered by Allah according to this verse.

2143
This verse clearly shows He was having 'some qibla by the order of Almight Allah' before it was changed.

salam

i agree the verse clearly indicates a previous qibla, but is it clear that whether that previous qibla was ordained by God?

salam

This is not a question of my understanding.Quranic sentence is crystal clear to explain its meaning.Look at the Verse again and again ,no ambiguity at all .

salam brother Allen

what i am asking is that you share your understanding. if you think something is crystal clear, please explain it.

i do not object to anyone's point of view, but i think the debate degrades when it becomes personal; we are all here to learn, and nothing is achieved by interrogation or by attempting to prove any participant's lack of knowledge or intelligence.

please think about your style of argument. i encountered the exact same kind of debate on sunni fora, where it would take someone over 10 pages of questioning just to make one point, which could have been made plain by simply putting forward a constructive argument.

thank you.

salam

This is pretty obvious from the example I have given.If you could not understand even then what can I say?

salam

so far you have said very little, other than ask questions.

you could explain your understanding, or raise pertinent objections.

salam

Surprised at your understanding
Actual verse =

(2144) We have seen you turning your face over and over again towards Heaven. Now, therefore, We turn you towards the qiblah that you like.

Just an example
If I say to ignoramus
Well friend ! I know you have been visiting my house again and again.Do not worry I will lend you books so that you can prepare for your exam properly.
Does it mean ignoramus visited my house again and again because of "Confusion".Try to locate the reason for visiting ,from this sentence.

salam dear brother Allen

it would be much better for all of us if you explained the points you are trying to make rather than cross-examining us. can you please explain what your point is.

thank you.

salam

But why he was turning his face to sky was he not aware that God is every where????

salam

i am not saying that the Quran is talking about confusion, however looking up at the sky is a natural reaction to confusion, not to physically see God. i remember many points in my life, even as an infant, looking at the stars pondering about God and the nature of existence and reality.

i think the point is being unnecessarily laboured.

salam

Turning the face to sky means 'confusion' ?? Are you sure ??

salam

i think this can be reasonably be interpreted as confusion, even if it is not what the Quran is saying here.

salam

salam all

you may wish to know that many points being discussed in this thread have been raised in this one "Sujud" http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15172.0 .

salam

salam brother Allen

i appreciate you are trying to make a point, but it seems to get stretched out by playing cat and mouse. why don't you provide your answers for all of us to benefit from your knowledge and understanding.

if sister Samia (or anyone else) disagrees, she could still retort.

thank you.

salam

salam

sujood can have a metaphorical meaning in some parts of the Quran, yet still mean a physical prostration regarding salat.

salam

We are all here to learn. The Koran is very challenging. At least we are all trying, and she is trying. Why this accusations?

salam

i second that.

brother Rajah, i think some of your posts rude. you do have some valid points, but they would you much easier to see if you refrained from unnecessary offensive rhetoric.

salam

salam

just because the mosque in mecca contains things which may have been previously idolised and worshipped, does not mean that anyone who prays in the direction of mecca is worshipping those idols. maybe some do, but most people who kiss the black pagan stone during their pilgramage do not worship it; neither do most of them worship the kaba. to an observer, it may seem that they are worshipping idols, but (at least some of them) are not worshipping any idol, but perform these rituals because they believe God has commanded them to , or will be please by them doing so.

i saw a man clutch his long lost girlfriend's dress and kiss it, but he does not love his girlfriend's dress. i saw a catholic woman kneel before a painting of 'the virgin mary' and pray. maybe she worships 'the virgin mary' but she certainly does not worship the painting.

also, 2226 does not say that the temple to which it refers does not contain idols. it does say that abraham cleansed it of idols, but does not say it would never again contain idols.

i personally do not believe mecca has anything to do with the qibla, but i think it is unfair to say that everyone praying towards it are idol-worshippers.

salam

salam

apologies for digressing, but i am puzzled by why all the scriptures appear in a very short period of human history. is it possible that some reference is made in the Quran to others, for example hindu scripture or something from other ancient civilisations.

does the kitab first appear only on the african continent in the past three or four thousand years?

salam

Because fajr and isha are time scales. However maghrib is an event in time. If the verse said maghrib people would assume its only DURING the sunset that they can pray and not after it. So the verse explained its from sunset to darkness and to be cautious about adhering to it since its short. Everybody knows isha is nightime till dawn and fajr is the begining of light till sunrise. Maghrib is not a time range but a point in time.

Just my 2 cents.

salam

what you say makes sense, but is not the period from first light to sunrise about as short as the time between the start of sunset and night?

salam

salam

what is the purpose/meaning of the wa between al salawati and al salatilwusta in 2238
( ) if wusta here is (most) balanced/middle/best?

salam