When I clicked on the website http//www.quran4peace.org/, Got a message that the account has been suspended.

What's up with that?

welcome

Good to have you join. We are an interesting bunch which if you have not discovered already. Just letting you know that here you will find messengers, crusaders, saviors, their followers. Still waiting for a prophet to come.....

All in all, we are a typical family here dysfunctional at best ;D

group

Peace Sajda,

I've spent every summer in Morocco during my childhood (i.e. until I turned 21). Every summer; three weeks Tetouan, two weeks Midar and three more weeks Tetouan. Miss those days. I haven't been back since 2004. I've been told it has changed a lot.

Two round-trip tickets Leeds Bradford - Tetouan. What do you say?
sun
Abdelilah

So sajda, what do you say? My vote yes. )

Peace justamuslim,

Thanks.
As per my understanding the usage of AL is given in this thread. Please follow, it may be helpful, inshaAllah. The word sauman used in 1926 simply means "a fast".

You are welcome.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

will be looking into it. Thanks.

Peace,

Is 2133 helpful for you, inshaAllah?

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

Witness = being alive, present and seeing something yourself.

it does not make sense to say "so whoever Shahida among you alshahra" ?...whoever is alive and present among you... Makes absolutely no sense to me.

This whole verse 2183-188 - how it is translated just does not make sense to me. I have been trying for the past 20+ years.

Peace mmkhan,

Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.

Me too! Shahid from what I understand means a witness. I have never heard of or asked anyone 'have you witnessed month' or moon for that matter. You see a moon not witness a moon. Is it an Arabic expression to say "witness a moon or month"?

Mmkhan,

I have been reading your posts intently and digesting them. In verse 2183, the word used is ALsiyam which implies a specific type. Not just any Siyam. But ALsiyam. In verse 1926, Siyam is used.

Any thoughts on that? Mind sharing.

Looking forward to your posts. Thanks.

I also don't understand that notion "it was ordered to those before you" since to my knowledge Xtians and Jews did not ever had that kind of fast lasting a whole month...

If ALsiyam is no food, water, sex all day in the month of Ramadan which in verse 2183 God says ALsiyam was prescribed before that means people before also had lunar calender? confused

So confused

If you are implying "tattaquna" specifically means "concious of God" - i.e. you are tying this word to "God" can you prove this via Quran? You may find chapter 9 useful for this.

I posted a list of translators and how they translated "laAAlallakum tattaquuna." Some translated tattaquuna as "righteous" and Asad translated it as "conscious of God". Looking at verses where tattaquoona is mentioned, I agree with Asad's translations of Conscious of God. "Salih" is used in reference to righteous. Correct me if I am way out in the left field.

Looking at the context of the verse and understanding the core message of the Koran and looking at other verses where tattaquuna is used, Asad's translation "conscious of God" seems to fit better.

If I become God conscious, I will be righteous. If I become God conscious, I will remember God when i am sad, happy, frustrated, distressed, hungry or stuffed, dehydrated or replenished, rich or poor, etc. If I am God conscious and i see injustice, I will stand up. If I am God conscious, I would not oppress, repress, suppress, abuse, hurt, say things that are not true, etc. if I am God conscious, I will do what God tells me to do. I will be conscious of myself, my actions, my behavior, my speech, etc.

Hence, why I agree with Asad's translation in this verse.

Now,if tattaquuna is not God conscious then what kind of "conscious" is it? "Saum" is prescribed so we may become "conscious" but of what? In the context of 2183?

Is there another alternative meaning of tattaquuna in this verse? I would be most interested in hearing and learning. And seeing how that definition would fit in this verse and context.

However tattuquna is translated "conscious, conscious of God or righteous" (pick anyone), ALsiyam is prescribe that MAY lead to tattaquuna.

---

IF you are trying to make a point and this point rests upon your view of Quran saying it will result in "tattaquna" - then please prove this first.
Do you not understand this simple point?

I stand corrected. Ok let me rephrase my question how does the act of not eating, drinking, having sex all day or talking (as some here state) for x number of days out of the year in of itself MAY result in tattaquna?

Not eating may result in feeling hunger.
Not drinking may result in feeling thirsty.
Not having sex may result in ? (Not sure what affect if any this may have).

How may abstaining from food, water and sex result in tattaquuna?

Peace @justamuslim,

If it took you 20+ years of study and reading, and you still do not get clear understanding, what hope there is for the rest of us who still did not engage in thus thorough examination?

It took me years to reject hadiths. When you are programmed and conditioned to think and believe in somethings and living a certain way, it is hard especially when people who have more knowledge than you telling you that you are committing shirk, following satan, lost, etc. But there are teenagers who came to reject and see the Truths just like that!

Could you tell me please what is muttaqui and tataqun?

I don't know what Saum is but whatever it is, Saum is something that you do which MAY (as wakas pointed out) result in you becoming tattaquna.

Tattaqun in verse 2183 has been translated by

Asad conscious of God
Y. Ali self restrain
Pictkhall ward of evil
Ahmed Ali righteous
Freeminds righteous
Corpus quran righteous
Islamicstudies.info righteous

I go to the website islamicity.com often. You can search by word, topic, phonetic, verses. I try to understand what a word means by looking where the same word was used and thinking about it. I am not arabic speaking and never was good in grammar but I can think for myself if tattaquna is an action like "ward of evil" or characteristic like righteous.

Plugging in righteous and conscious in the word search, I go with Asad's translation that tattaquna means "conscious" relating to being conscious of God.

The Koran really explains itself and in verse2177, a person who is conscious of God (muttaqi) is described.

Tattaquna is also mentioned in 2187 and 189.

Whatever Saum is, the result is that it may make you conscious of God. when you are conscious of god, you can achieve a happy or peaceful state not just within yourself but also in society. Makes total sense.

So the emphasis and importance is on tattaquna. Saum is a method or means of becoming conscious of God.

---

@wakas,
The act of not eating, drinking, having sex from dawn to night or not talking (as some here say) in of itself DOES NOT result in tattaquna. This is my point.

Sigh. I have to once again cut short and stop here for how.

It seems that you know nothing about The Qur?aan and its teachings. Next time you either come up with facts and figures and specifics when rendering opinions about The Qur?aan, or just keep silent. It is better for you. If you, for any reason, don?t want to follow or perform the rituals and duties prescribed by GOD in The Qur?aan, that?s fine with me, its your prerogative. Simply do not misrepresent The Qur?aan by saying this is in The Qur?aan; that is not in The Qur?aan. The Qur?aan has Chapters and verse numbers for reference. Just put down the specific verses you are talking about. Until you do that, just keep silent, it is better for you. Belying GOD and His words is a great sin/offense.

Peace,
Khalil

if you and others here want to continue with your rituals, holding onto your beliefs and understandings by all means go on doing just that. You have the God given right to believe and live your life any way you see fit.

There are those here who are more interested in the Truth and understanding the koran from God only. I am sure satan would like people like me to be silent.

This is the month of repose, a break from the normal, when our energy should not be
wasted arguing and ranting with those who do not believe that ramadan is a sacred month.
You may have the energy to argue, make personal attacks, make accusations, but we
muslims just want to enjoy the blessings that the fast of ramadan brings, Please feel free
to join us.

Would you mind explaining what you meant by the above. Who are "we Muslims"? Are you saying that I am not a muslim. Just want to be sure that I understand you.

Wrkmmn

Hypocrites and unbelievers - huh? Well, you are entitled to your opinions to which you will be held accountable for. Keep in mind everything you say and do is all recorded.

For as horribly as the verses pertaining to Ramadan is translated, here is the verse

2 184 (Y. Ali) (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.

God does not call anyone who does not Ayyaman maAAdoodatin hypocrites and unbelievers. I suggest that you stop quoting the Koran inappropriately.

thats the point i don't understand the duties that are from the quran and the duties that are from hadith. anyway i will do a search to figure things out. confused

oh the 10th??? i read somewhere it was the 8th or 9th ugh

Although many here have rejected hadiths, yet hold onto understandings and beliefs outside the Koran. Many commonly held beliefs, practices and understandings are not true - Ramadan is one example. Please do search to figure things out yourself. I am too.

omgosh please help--i didn't realize ramadan started already, this will be my first one as a convert...how are things different or the same as quran only muslim vs. traditional/sunni muslim? are there any ayats that clarify things? ahh im panicky-ing brickwall confused brickwall & brickwalln brickwall

Why the panic? Really ask that you understand what Ramadan is from the Koran only.

As for me, this month will be no different than other months.

Maha,

Re your question

My question is if the traditional Ramadan fasting is the same as the quranic Ramadan fasting (as some here believe) and keeping in mind the above adverse affects of fasting, then why did God want muslims to suffer physically, socially and economically for one month every year?

God makes it clear and in several places in the Koran that he intends no hardship on us. God DID NOT tell us to go without food, water from sunrise to sunset for one month every year.

1st I agree, but since you're denying the IMMACULATE conception of Jesus, pbuh, and did not answer my question, I suggest that you start a "NEW THREAD" regarding the issue, by answering my question first!

2nd TRINITY and IMMACULATE conception are two completely different issues and have nothing to do with one another.

3rd drfazl is an old news and a lot of people here know that he is nothing but a con artist and a demagogue, so let's start the "NEW THREAD" and learn a bit more about the word of GOD, i.e. The Qur'aan. Inshaa'Allaah.

Peace,
Khalil

Agreed and will start a thread on this issue soon!

I participate in Christmas parade, decorate for Christmas, give presents, at times have attended church. Actually, I like listening to sermons. None of which conflict with my beliefs. Obviously, doesn't carry the same meaning to me as it does to my Christian friends. When my friends ask me, I just state that Jesus is not son of God. Depending on the situation and person, get into discussion about the bible. I have ended conversations by saying with a smile, "if I want my soul saved, I go directly to the Father and cut out the middle guy ". I don't get into and avoid getting into arguments and confrontation.

And the same thing with my family and friends who are traditional Muslims. The last time went to the mosque, I didnt pray. People just think that i am on my periods. There was a time when I was on my menses when we went to friends house and I didn't want everyone to know that I was on my menses and so I prayed with them - going through the motions. Praying the way that traditional Muslims is not a sin or contradictory to the Koran. Depending on situation, I don't join and will explain myself.

I just visited family and let them know of my beliefs. When asked how my fasting is going or why I don't fast, I just explain. I don't wear a hijab and last year when attending my cousins wedding when everyone was in burqa or niqab or in hijab, I decided to stand up by not wearing a hijab and having my hair down. It was scandalous! I said to my uncle that none of the prophets went with the flow following the traditions of their forefathers. They stood up and we all know how they were treated by society. I stand up when the occupation calls for it or feel like it but there are times when I don't bother. I just listen and say nothing. Go with the flow and the motions without meaning. I find that at times and depending on the sitaution, this is the best. God knows me and what I believe and at the end of the day, that is what matters and not what other people think may it be positive or negative.

I have had people say that I belong to a cult and to which my response was, yes I do and it is called the cult of believing in God, the last day and doing good things . Over the years, I have matured meaning I don't get all emotional and react emotionally like i used to when people say that I follow satan, lost, going to hell, etc.

Knowledge is empowering. Depending on the situation and person, I refer to the Koran asking can you tell me where in the Koran God says..such and such. Or ask for references from the hadiths.

So it all depends on the situation and persons,how I interact.

highlights above are from me.

Through your statement above, you have made a claim on BEHALF of The Qur'aan. Would you please tell us what the verses 345, 346, and 347 in The Qur'aan mean?

Peace,
Khalil

I think it would be best to address this topic in a thread of its own. Will say for now that I have not made a claim on behalf of God as you put it. I am simply stating that the Koran does not support Trinitarian claim of immaculate conception of Jesus. Not a claim but a statement. As you brought up verses 345 to 347, can you tell me how those verses support the claim that Jesus was immaculately conceived? Let's carry this conversation to another thread and leave this about drfazl's claims that a woman does not need a man to conceive or age does not matter.

Peace brother Fazl,

Okay. I might not know exactly what you do for these 2000 dollars. Although I could not understand in its entirety what you mean is included in your services. If they feel happier and their lives are turned around for the better then it is good.

God bless you.

So manoffaith, what you are saying is that drfazl turned these people's lives around and made happier for 2000 dollars? Just want to be sure we have a clear understanding here.