Yeah, that's what I thought - Men have ego. If the prophet is a female, imagine the prophet's husband. Men naturally can't stand having a women telling them what to do.

Besides, what will the husband do while the prophet is out preaching? Cook, and do the washing? I'm not saying he can't, but it's just weird.

cough I don't mind women telling me what to do, as long as I also have say in the matter. God loves justice, and it is Eir gift unto us! ^___^

I also already like to cook and do the washing, lol...

There are many Messengers that we do not know because of the erosion of time, as well as a Revelation given to them. How dare we say that God can not produce a female Messenger as much as a male One! God can do and ordain whatsoever Ey wants, and I have firm belief and surety that God did have some female Messengers in the past.

I believe that Muhammad is not the last Rasul, and that there will be more Rasuls in the future. Who knows, the next one could be a woman, for all its worth. If one could speculate that Deganawida and Quetzacoatl could have very well been Messengers of God, why not women?

Welcome to the forum, and Peace, G. Omar! ^___^

The Qur'an is simply beautiful without the hadiths... I think that the overemphasis on those hadiths have caused the beauty of the Qur'an to fade and subside as time went by. It had caused Islam to be perceived by other Faiths as intolerant, picky and suppressive, when the Qur'an, especially for its time, has brought freedom to those who worship one God.

You will notice many Muslims on this forum seemingly angry and hurt because they have felt suppressed or lied to themselves... but I think we must change our attitude and spread this movement as a movement of renewal and change of society and make it more Qur'anic than before. The Qur'an is light and mercy to those who believe, and Godwilling, it is through Eir Mercy that we will certainly bring monotheism to a hurting world.

)

Nyma, pesar-e khub, Salam, Allah-u-Abha!

Thank you for sharing your story. You are very young, but I know that there are young people who have been into religion and seeking a faith that fits them well. Especially with such a weighty Revelation as the Qur'an, it is a bounty and blessing that you were seeking to investigate the Truth.

I was also very young when I began searching for a faith for me, that it unfortunately separated me from other people. But despite the fact that many of us on this forum are young, it is our generation that needs to change become more spiritual, instead of focusing on the rituals and little superstitions that divide us.

Anyone who believes in one God and does good works have a chance in the Kingdom of Heaven.

~ "Kayvan"

According to the traditional sense of the term in which speaks of Muhammad as the last Prophet of God (Rasul), I am not a Muslim.

I believe in Submission to God alone through Eir Laws and Ordinances. I believe in pacifism and the inherent right of all human beings to live, as well as compassion and respect for God's Creation. I also believe that lord Muhammad was a great Prophet of God and deserves respect for being the Messenger of God's Law to Humanity.

I even perform my version of the Salat in remembrance of God throughout my day, and believe that the Qur'an is a Perfect Revelation of God sent down to lord Muhammad, but rather the interpretation has been corrupted by divines for power, greed or intellectualism.

In this way then, I am a Muslim.

In my Faith, we try to avoid making anthrophomorphic descriptions of God and rather vesture Em in Eir Attributes and Names. Labelling anything masculine and feminine is culturally subjective anyways.

I just simplify my belief that Everything is in God, but God is not in everything (I am a panentheist, but even all forms of theisms fail that God transcends and above ALL human comprehension; the label is just my limited understanding of a transcendent but personal God). Rather, God dwells in the human heart, yet transcends all.

Peace and love!
Kevyn.

Can I just ask

Who is Lord Mohammad?

Cheers

Well, it's a personal thing for me.

Many Muslims always put (PBUH) after the name of a Prophet or Messenger of God to give Them proper respect. In the Baha'i Writings in Arabic and Persian, usually Baha'u'llah is addressed as "His Holiness" and other similar instances... (Mary of Jesus is addressed as "Her Grace&quot.

Since these forms of address are not carried into English (instead, pronouns referring to the Messengers are normally capitalised), I wanted to give Them some appropriate title to give Them honour and respect. Thus I adopted the title "Lord".

I have seen Lord Moses, Lord Jesus and Lord Gautama... so why not extend it to Lord Muhammad and Lord Baha'u'llah as well? As long as people recognise that there is only one true Lord and one true King, then it should be alright. It's extra-Qur'anic, but then again, I'm still anti-hadith when it comes to the Glorious Qur'an.

Love! n__n

With loving Graces,
Kevyn.

Peace All

Yea i'm starting to think this isn't Islamic.

I think i was just intrigued by the article because i never thought of the word rahman and its root meaning and what that all implies.

Not only that, but it's also like putting limitations on God's All-Pervasiveness and as the All-Transcending.

To me anyways.

God bless!
Kevyn.

Allah-u-Abha!

I believe as well that God is the possessor of all wonderful attributes, and transcends gender. I don't believe that there are any set of personality characteristics assigned merely for women and for men.

There are men who are nurturing, loving and sweet, and there are women who are valiant, fierce and strong. Different cultures in the world attest to this, and it is just one of the many colours that God Emself brought upon Eir Creation. D Thus, such Godly attributes are merely culturally assigned, but all were created by God Emself!

Although colloquially I may call God my Father or Mother (spiritually), Ey transcends these to the greatest extent to unknowability. But I know that Ey certainly would possess traits that are stereotypical to an earthly mother or father.

But in any case, God is my Loving Parent, and I know that Ey cares for me and watches over me with smiles when people and myself strive to do Eir Will, and concern and being upset when I delve into imperfections (things contrary to God's Will). As I feel that I myself feel that I transcend gender within, God transcends all and everything.

Much love,
Kevyn.

1618 "And if you count the blessings of God you will not be able to fathom them. God is Forgiving, Merciful."

There is so much hidden beauty in the Qur'an that we will always discover as we continue to read it, and it is sad that many Muslims do not read their own Qur'an or translations of it and cherish it, one and all. It should not be put away to Islamic scholars or mullahs or imams, but to every believer who submits to God!

We don't even need to have masjids, so as long as the heart is the temple of God Emself. )

When I first divulged myself in the Qur'an, I was upset at many of the verses that spoke about Hell, but when I looked beyond that, I saw verses that praised the beauty of Eir Creation, that everything was made by the word of God; Ey spoke the Word, and it existed! I saw verses of the beauty of Heaven, of the angels (Baha'is believe that people who exemplify wonderful and virtuous qualities are angels, even those who are deceased souls may be 'angels&#039 who circle round Eir throne and proclaim that "there is none other God but Thee!".

I'm sure you will like this forum. I don't know much of Islamic principles, so you won't see me much, lol. But I am assured that God is certainly working in your life, and that Eir Truth will wholly pervade you in beauteous pearls of wisdom and love. )

Allah-u-Abha,
Kevyn.

Anyone else getting hungry?

Makes me wonder if you can veganise a croissant, lol.

I miss eating one.

Allah-u-Abha,
Kevyn.

Peace Kevyn

Long post, brace yourself..

Allah-u-Abha, my friend!

No kidding, lol.

Ooooh a bit of juicy news with a dash of conspiracy heh heh

Well let's see, I use to memorize ayathul kursi and manzil and something about laylathul Quadr and .. oh yes the Kalima and a bunch of other stuff I can?t remember..

LOL sounds like the alphabet song I learned from Yusuf Islam. "A is for Allah, nothing but Allah, BA is the beginning of Bismillah..."

Worthy y.e.s, but maybe not of praise ) At present translations do serve as a platform for us non-Arabic speakers, but I don?t think this trend should continue. As I understand the more translations we have the less people are inclined to study the original. I find that to be disturbing.. As followers of God Alone we like to say that following the prophet does not mean following Bukhari, muslim etc, likewise following the Quran does not mean following the translations of Yusuf Ali, Pikthal or even progressive Muslim (I don?t know much about the Bahai faith, so I can?t comment on what you?ve written about Lord Bha?u?llah?s writings). While translations may be helpful, we should reduce our level of dependancy on it.

Also ?easy to understand? does not necessarily mean having translations, translations themselves can be quite complex, considering the many versions we have out there.

I more or less agree with you. I've never thought about it that way, lol.

In the Baha'i Faith, one of the successors (Shoghi Effendi) before our House of Justice (Baha'i government) was in place, did many of the translations into archaic, KJV-style English (I'm not a favourer of archaic English for translations, but do not mind it for prayers or poetry), and because of his high station, these translations and the style is authoritatively used, and surprisingly, all translations into other languages in the world are based on the English translation. For example, the Short Obligatory Prayer, binding to all Baha'is who choose to recite it, after ablution and facing the Qiblih

"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee.
I testify at this moment to my powerlessness and to Thy Might, to my poverty and to Thy Wealth.
There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."

Another interesting observation is God repeatedly reminds us in the Quran that it is a compilation in Arabic, it?s in clear Arabic tongue etc, not once, not twice but ELEVEN times. Why? This number of occurrences leads me to consider the possibility that Arabic as a language IS important for understanding God?s ?literal? word and that perhaps he wants us to use it as a starting point and then move on. Please note the word "literal". I don?t need to learn Arabic to understand any of God?s creations or signs, just the Quran, that?s it. Wishful thinking? M.a.y.b.e. I am all ears and eyes )

LOL, Classical Arabic is too hard (or I would like to exaggerate that point as an excuse, lol). But you'd think that Lord Muhammad WAS from an Arabic-speaking area. To present the Qur'an in a language other than their own tongue would confuse many of them, and because if it were to be in another tongue than their own, why should they listen to an exotic God who spoke to another people?

We have made it into an Arabic compilation, perhaps you may understand.
433

Maybe I'm just blind, lol. But then again, you guys are lucky that you have one Scripture overall. As Baha'is, we should be familiar with all the scriptures, and to do such, one would choose to learn Sanskrit for the Bhagavad Gita, Classical Arabic for the Qur'an, the Gathic language for the Avesta, Hebrew and Aramaic for the Tanakh, Greek for the the Gospel, Pali and Sanskrit for Buddhist texts, and both Arabic and Persian for the Writings of Lord Baha'u'llah.

It's a daunting task, lol. o

Yes I know a strong argument can be made saying language is not a barrier etc etc. I agree, but my thinking is different. No barrier will arise if the language was passed down with the book.

If only that could happen. Apparently, there is one village in India that still uses Sanskrit! But this is Classical Arabic... revitalising the language would take lots of motivation and effort from the people, and I have a hard time believing that.

Aah you see, to me it is not about been exotic ;D but I guess that's a matter of perspective. Here is how I see it

• We inherit the Quran yet don't inherit the language
• We know the arabic alphabet but not the language
• We learn the mother tongue of the country we are born into but not the tongue of the religion we are born into
• We take an interest in learning a foreign language if we are planning a holiday somewhere, same applies if we were to emigrate, but we lack the same enthusiasm when it comes to religion
• Heck people even go to the extent of studying languages of ancient civilizations and they master it too in a few years!

The Quran is written in arabic, so why not learn the language? Why do we leave it to "others" to translate it for us?

You are right. But then, you have this One Scripture that is readily accessable and that unifies all Muslims and proponents of God-alone Qur'anically, as opposed to my Faith, lol. If Hebrew can be revitalised, then I don't see why not Classical Arabic. D

Anything ? good or bad - can be comfortable and natural with enough exposure. Language is no exception ) Important clarification I don't need arabic to "talk" to God, or to "talk about" God, just need it to understand God's literal word, that's it (I am sounding like a broken record aren't I? heh heh)

God can say "I love you" in our language many times, and we will still don't get it, or will need to be constantly reminded all the time just to even grasp the meaning of it, lol.

Besides we all agree that translations fall short of the original of any piece of literature, in this case it?s God?s literal word. So, when push comes to shove, do we choose the best or the less?? Teacher or the student?

Can I say both? D We should always constantly be teaching our experiences to the unlearned, and always be open to learn simultaneously! angel

Yes I agree, but "arabcentricism" will only be a problem if one allows it to be so. Please note I am NOT in anyway saying Arabic is part of religion, but it is an important tool just like any other scientific method. Let those who don?t see the distinction be, it?s their loss. I really don?t see a problem in adopting Arabic as my 4th language, so if some poor unfortunate arab comes over and tells me how his language is superior because I know it or cos God chose his language to deliver His final message, well? let?s just say that it won?t be long before he starts crying for his mommy rotfl

Now that doesn't sound very Qur'anic, lol. )

Hmm.. so which method is easier? Creating translations according to a language life cycle, or learning the language? Not to mention the extensive ?change management? that should be employed..

Well, every language that is in use is always subject to change, and classical languages are no doubt still changeable when a large population uses it daily enough to develop. But I guess if exposed quite young in immersion of the language, then it is possible.

If they Jews can do it, then we can too! )

Oops cross connection ;D In SL most of the chanting is done in Arabic, thus the reference..

What's SL? Slovenia? Slovakia? Sri Lanka? -[ But yeah, I understood the reference, but I just wanted to add to the conversation. ^___^

P.S I didn?t get any input from anyone as to whether the Quran can withstand language evolution, eh is it because it?s a silly question? confused

I'm sure it's not a silly question! But I'm sure someone on this site can answer... I'm not smart enough to think of a probable reason, heheh.

God is Love,
Kevyn.

Thats probably true, the "son" being metaphorical than spiritual. Maybe its a metaphor for Christ being gods highest angel after lucifers fall. Or maye hey just took the prophet thing one step too far?

Did not Jesus say

"I am the Way, I am the Truth and Life,
No one can come to the Father
except through me.
If you know me, you will know my Father too.
From this moment you know him and have seen him."
John 146-7

I see it both as a spiritual AND metaphorical title, not a literal one. We are all children of God because we believe in Em, but it is not that we are begotten from Em. And Lord Jesus calling Himself the Son of God is a spiritual title of Prophethood.

Lord Baha'u'llah is termed the "Glory/Splendour/Brilliance/Beauty of God." It is a spiritual title also. And Lord Muhammad is the "Praised One" of God, although God alone is worthy of Praise and is the Most Glorious.

Lord Abraham was the "Father of the Nations." He was both a spiritual and literal father of many peoples, even though there is only one Parent in Heaven.

PS I just noticed that the older bible versions, such as the KJV, Darby and DRV have "begotten" in the translation... the textus receptus used must have been doctored or something, lol.

And yes, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael. lol

Salaam kevyn

I am sorry if my message offended you. I did not mean that you are an idol worshipper. I did not ask if you worshipped him. Idolize could mean "to love too much", and that was clear from the context, as you use his name in greetings, and maybe in other contexts.

Salaam Boost
Baha is beauty, splendour, brilliance..

My sister in God,
Allah-u-Abha!

No harm done. As long as you are sincere, it is no sin to God, lol.

I know we're going off topic, but here are some passages that may help you understand the Baha'i sense of the Messengers and God. The Messengers are considered both human and divine (when they receive Revelation from God), but they are not GOD Emself, who is unknowable and greater than all things.

Lord Baha'u'llah likens it to the Sun and mirrors (heheh, with the pagan Sun analogy). The Sun is God, and the Messengers are but the Mirrors that reflect the Divine Light. People, those who perceive the light may call the Mirror God, but in truth, The Messengers are but reflectors of the One True Source of Light, and thus are not GOD.

XXI. O Salman! The door of the knowledge of the Ancient Being hath ever been, and will continue for ever to be, closed in the face of men. No man's understanding shall ever gain access unto His holy court. As a token of His mercy, however, and as a proof of His loving-kindness, He hath manifested unto men the Day Stars of His divine guidance, the Symbols of His divine unity, and hath ordained the knowledge of these sanctified Beings to be identical with the knowledge of His own Self. Whoso recognizeth them hath recognized God. Whoso hearkeneth to their call, hath hearkened to the Voice of God, and whoso testifieth to the truth of their Revelation, hath testified to the truth of God Himself. Whoso turneth away from them, hath turned away from God, and whoso disbelieveth in them, hath disbelieved in God. Every one of them is the Way of God that connecteth this world with the realms above, and the Standard of His Truth unto every one in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. They are the Manifestations of God amidst men, the evidences of His Truth, and the signs of His glory.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 49)

Since we believe that God is forever unknowable as long as we are in fleshly bodies here on Earth, the Manifestations (the Prophets who are so-called because they manifest the Attributes, and some even the Names of God) are the gateway to Em. The Revelation (Holy Spirit) is the connectivity between the Realm of God and the Realm of Humanity.

It is why Lord Krishna says to love Him. It is why Lord Jesus claimed as the Way to the Father. And in the Qur'an, obedience to the Message of Lord Muhammad. And since God is much unknowable in Eir Divine and Glorious Essence, I don't see why one can not love the Prophets of God. ) They were, after all, chosen!

I hope you can understand where I am coming from, although you may disagree. ^__^

God is sufficient unto me,
Ey is the All-Sufficing.
Kevyn.

Salaam kevynbello

Why do use a greeting in Arabic that is meaaningless even in Arabic, and a tribute to God that certainly does not mean "Glorious"? Is it just because it is derived from the name of your prophet? Do you idolise him that much?

The name Baha (Glory, Splendour) is one of the attributes of God. Some of the names of the Prophets or Messengers are also attributes of God. Although they should be for God alone, they are given to the Messengers because they have been chosen by God.

Jesus = Yahweh is my Saviour
Muhammad = the Praised One
Buddha = Enlightened One
Krishna = "All-Attractive One" dark one
Abraham = Father of many nations
Zoroaster = Golden Star

If you want to believe that I am an idol worshipper, then I'm an idol worshipper, lol. But whether I am or not, (in my heart, I see no wrong and I do not see myself as idolising him as a god), I do it for the love of God.

Allah-u-Abha!
Kevyn.

Peace Bro Kevyn

i just thought that idea was much more natural and related to the earth and peaceful than some turkish conquest... in my opinion at least

so bahai's don't consider themselves muslim? or do some? was Baha-ullah considered a prophet?

Ya Baha'u'l-Abha, BOOST!

Yes, the theory seems much more natural than the one of the conquest -- I heartily agree! His post was actually very beautifully done!

Baha'is normally (and shouldn't) do not consider themselves Muslims (one of my Muslim friends had a Baha'i who said that he was Muslim...). But since we believe that our Revealed Religion is the Revelation for this Day and Age, we are essentially, Buddhists who follow Buddha, Christians who follow Jesus, Muslims who follow Muhammad, Jews who follow Moses, etc. But we are in all, Baha'is who follow the Prophet Baha'u'llah to GOD. And all these religions should all come to GOD in the end.

Baha'u'llah is a Prophet of God to Baha'is though!

Salamaa all,

Kevynbello, is it prudent to try using a calendar with 19 months when the quran mentions 12? I don't need the answer but I felt my duty to give the question.

adjwi

Well, I'm not a Muslim and since I am a Baha'i, we have a new Revelation. Some religions seem to have their own new way of time keeping as the old Revelation passes away. Plus, 19 is a wonderful, Qur'anic number anyways! ^__^

127
The number of months in a year, appointed in the
Book of God, is nineteen. Of these the first hath been
adorned with this Name which overshadoweth the
whole of creation.

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 64)

Salam.

Some people think that carrying the golden moons and stars on their necklaces is part of the Islam. Of course, this has now become such tradition that if you don't carry this object, you're not good Muslim, at least this goes here in the Balcans.

Person must first have religion in his heart, you can carry any object, any sign around your neck, wrist or an ankle, Islam is in the heart.

Peace.

This is most true. When I first became a Baha'i and desired to wear a nine-pointed star on my neck (many Baha'is in my community wear a ring with the Ringstone symbol, but I end up losing rings, or that they get stuck on my finger), I went to the Vancouver Baha'i Centre to see what kind of jewellery they had. The store volunteer told me, that it is more important to show the Faith through one's deeds and actions rather than what you wear.

Baha'i symbols http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_symbols (Who knew, the official symbol of the Baha'i Faith is a five-pointed star!)

So true, so true, lol. But symbols, as I said earlier, although arbitrary, should constantly act as reminders of our identity, and to what (or Who) we belong to.

Allah-u-Abha!
Kevyn.

Sikes, Allah-u-Abha! (God is the Most Glorious!)

Peace Kevyn,

Agreed bro

Trust me I know what you mean, I've experienced it first hand

Do tell!

I agree with what you say about translations but I must add that although translations (despite everything else it contains besides God's word) does open up a world of opportunity for people who don't speak arabic, it's still not able to deliver the full message of the Quran, which is very unfair imho.

I've also come across plenty of people who uphold the translation itself to be divine..

Yes, I do agree that it is not the same as the original. If I wanted to read the originals of Lord Baha'u'llah's Writings, I would have to learn both Farsi/Parsi/Persian (I somehow don't like calling it Persian) and Arabic. But if Lord Baha'u'llah were to be alive right now, He (we capitalise the Prophets of God because they were closer to God than we are) would tell me to learn Arabic... He really really loved the Arabic language!

I'm sure these "Divine Translation" people are akin to those KJV-onlyists that I've encountered during my Christian years. But as I truly believe that the Qur'an was made to be easy to understand, translations are thus then worthy of praise! It is why I appreciate things in the vernecular now... rather than be exotic with an exotic tongue, Communion with God should be in the most comfortable way that is natural to a person, language being one of them!

I also want to avoid the danger of Arabicentricism and bringing in a superiority complex with the Arabic language. One of the problems I had was the Arabicisation of countries thinking that it is part of Islam, when in reality, is only a cultural custom than of God.

Arabic, imo should be made a universal language like English (at least where muslims are concerned), maybe the time has come to do so. Hey if people can take the pains to learn a buncha scribbles and chant an arabic version of "abra-ka-dabra", they can certainly learn the language. I think the jews have it right, if I am not mistaken all of them are quite conversant in hebrew..

As well as the Catholics in Vatican City have their Latin speakers, lol. For Baha'is, we believe that we will translate all our Scriptures and Books into whatever international language the whole world adopts officially (Although Arabic, Farsi and English seem to be the most used in our religion). Chanting of prayers is usually done in the tongue of the people. Thus I chant in the languages that I know English, French, Spanish and Esperanto, lol.

God is the Most Glorious,
Kevyn.

PEace

I definitely agree, it is a pretty symbol and perhaps the meaning of the crescent has changed over the years. this is only to the best of my knowledge of the origins of the symbol. Bro Ahmed explained another meaning that actually sounds more beautiful from the political reasons it may have originally come from.

so Bahai' have 19 too! D quite interesting indeed.

BOOST,
Allahuabha!

I would love to hear Brother Ahmed's explanation then! If there is a link that you could direct me to such, I would be glad to read it!

Yes, we do have 19 too, as well as 9!

Baha in Arabic is worth 9, and it is the highest single digit. There are 9 members in the Universal House of Justice (UHJ), as well as 9 members in the National Spiritual Assembly (like a committee, the NSA) and the Local Spiritual Assembly of the local area (LSA). We recognise 9 Manifestations (prophets of God) as well as 9 recognised religions. And one of our our three symbols is the 9 pointed star. The revealing of the Bab and the intimation of Baha'u'llah's mission to the world had 9 years in between.

We chant the name of God (Allah-u-Abha) 95 times (5 x 19), and apparently the Arabic word for "One" is worth 19. There are 19 days and 19 months. I'm still really unclear on the significance of the two numbers, other than their numerological significances.

God bless,
Kevyn.

Adjwi, Allah-u-Abha!

Thank you for sharing that post. It was very beautiful and seemed more neutral than a for/against of the usage of the Crescent and Star.

The rejection of the Crescent and Star by pagan allusions is as sensical as rejecting the Gregorian Calendar because of its pagan names. (But then again, I try to use the Baha'i solar Calendar... there are 19 days in a month, and there are 19 months in a year, and each day of the week, each numerical day, and each month is named after one of God's attributes!)

It is extra Qur'anic, of course, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily evil or contrary to the Faith as much as deviations from God's commandments outlined in Eir Word. And it is a very beautiful, unofficial symbol of the Qur'anic Faith of God!

God is the Most Glorious,
Kevyn.

peace ElenaOK, you got me there. That argument doesn't work. But, there is more than enough evidence supporting the fact that Jesus=the son.

check this oot
http//freedomdomain.com/relig.htm

http//members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/index.htm#solarmyth

I don't know... it just seems as believable as the "Islamic Allah is a pagan Moon god" theory. In any case, the Bible itself says that Jesus is the "Son of God." To Baha'is and to me, it is a metaphorical title, a spiritual one as a Prophet (Manifestation, or manifests the attributes) of God, and not that God actually and literally begets a son... it would be akin to a strange form of sexual reproduction with humans... o__O... Anyways, I'm digressing, lol.

"For this is how God loved the world he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."

John 316 (New Jerusalem Bible)