Peace Huruf,

I do totally agree with you on the point that what people choose to do in their own privacy is not a matter concerned with the Public. With that said, it is important to see if Homosexuality is in line with the Quran as parents will start to Condemn their own children and make them feel bad for something they cannot help.
Most (I'm saying 95%) of people will tell you that they cannot help being gay, that it is not a choice. Now I do accept that there are these people who may Engage in "Homosexual" activities but these people are not Inherently homosexual, they are usually engaging in such acts as they may be confused or want to try something different. These people, i repeat, are NOT homosexual. So in effect, there are people who engage in homosexual acts because they have some personal reason for doing so, and Those who engage in sexual acts with the same gender because they are not attracted to the opposite Gender.
Please, speak with a Real life Homosexual, and you will understand what im speaking about.

I believe you are getting confused with that it is a Choice to engage in Homosexual activities, which is true. But it is NOT a choice of Who you are attracted to. If you are a Heterosexual man, tell me if you can choose to be attracted to Men tomorrow. Can you do that? Can you wake up tomorrow and decide to be only sexually aroused by men and not women?
You will find that it is not possible because sexual attraction is hardwired into your brain as it leads to reproduction. The body will not let this part of the brain be left to choice. What happens in Homosexuals is a biological mismatch happens, giving men, the same attraction mechanism as (Heterosexual) women.

And Homosexual Love IS equivalent to Heterosexual Love. The love between a Man and Woman, is Exactly the same between the between a Man and a Man, and a Woman and a Woman.

Also, I'm sorry, i did not understand some of your post

Peace

Mino-taur

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10637532/Being-homosexual-is-only-partly-due-to-gay-gene-research-finds.html

http//www.theguardian.com/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa

http//io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb

http//www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/science/gay-men-in-twin-study.html

Peace Wakas, Everyone,

Being "born gay" is false, and has been shown by scientific studies.

Research the studies done on genetically identical twins, who later in life, one is homosexual, one heterosexual. This is very common.

Being ?Born Gay? does not necessarily mean that it is due to one single Gene which makes you gay. Sexuality is more complex than to be defined by one gene. Very few things about the body and how the brain is structured and works are defined by just one gene. If you study Genetics or molecular Biology, this is one of the first things you will learn. Moreover, in the link I have provided at the start of my post gives a quick summary of some of the studies into biological basis for Homosexuality. In the one by Canadian reasearchers, it shows that it may not be caused by Genes at all, it is in part due to the increasing strength in the mothers immune response.

The second link is there just to show more evidence that there may be some type of genetic factor involved in the causation of homosexuality.

The third link is another example how Homosexuality is not purely Gene based. Genetics is so much more complicated than ?You have this Gene, therefore you will have yellow hair? etc.

The fourth link is there to show you that the study you mentioned is most probably an anomaly. Also the ?epi-marks? explanation, explains why one twin with the same genes as his brother did not turn out to be gay also. The straight twin obviously lacked the epigenetic modification which would lead to homosexuality.

In summary, we can conclude that there is some Biological basis for homosexuality, probably not genetic, but biological nonetheless. Therefore, being gay is Definitely not a simple Choice. If it was, when did you choose to be straight?

And thank you for the link to the Thread, I will read it when I have more time. (I'm currently studying for exams!). But because there is some Biological basis, and no clear condemnation of homosexuality (being attracted to the same sex) in the Quran, I believe that being Gay is ok according to the Quran. Simply put, Allah would not create Gay people when they cannot help it, and then condemn them for it. It's like making black people, and condemning them for being Black!

Peace everyone, I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone with my post as I understand this is a sensitive subject. )

Mino-taur

Peace god1quran1

I don't think he meant to use the word science. He is however using logical arguments.
Yes. The verses are clear. It is clear that nowhere in the Quran is being Homosexual itself forbidden. The act of Homosexuality (i.e. engaging in homosexual intercourse) is not prohibited for Homosexuals. Rather, as the logic and questions given by the OP, the Quran suggests engaging in Homosexual acts if you are heterosexual is a great lewdness. What happened during the scenario of the story of Lut, is that it was a case of Same gender Rape (which still happens today) used as a scare/dominance tactic.

Peace

Mino-taur

Salaam All

Right so what i've learnt from this thread is that, As long as i say Bismillah or mention Allah (or one of his names) upon food, to becomes Halal and permissible to eat.

Peace
Mino-taur

Peace Sytalls

Personally i think it is Five and not Three. To see the thread about this, click on this link http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602853.0

Peace Wakas

Thanks for replying to my posts. I will study this matter, further in light of our conversation. I shall study the Forum and hopefully Allah will guide me to the right awnswer.

Peace

Peace Wakas

Ok, let me explain it this way. Say you had a circular piece of rope. and there were five coloured sections (white, black, blue, red and green). Each colour represents a type of prayer (Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha and Fajr). Ok, now imagine that you walk around this rope at a steady speed, constantly. Now, everytime you are in a different section, you have to recite some of the quran. You do not have to recite the quran when you immediately enter a new coloured section, you can recite it, halfway through the coloured section if you want, or just before you enter a new coloured section!

Ok, now as i said earlier, the Quran shows us that Maghrib prayer time is done in the DAY. So, all of the Maghrib coloured section is part of the Day, including the very last part of it. Therefore, if you were fasting, whilst walking in the Maghrib coloured section, and decided to break your fast whilst walking in that section, then you would be breaking your fast in the DAY. This is not in concordance with the Quran, as it tells us to break our fast in the night.

This is how i sort of Understand in my brain. Also, if you have the time, please look at this link http//www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/breaking_fast.html

Sorry for the late reply Wakas, and sorry for the lengthy analogy. I'm not very good at explaning things!

Peace )

I will go with answer number 4. You would be in neither room.

)

Peace Wakas

I see where you have Misunderstood me here. Right, this might take a bit of time as im not very good at conveying ideas and thoughts through the internet. The short awnswer to your question; "Is the day's end still part of the day?" is yes. The end of the day, is still part of the day. This is the same as saying, is the end of a rope still part of the rope?

Heo and peace everyone.
I totally agree with Siki. The quran says this in 11114 - "And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.".

Here it is describing two ends of the DAY in which prayer should be perfomed. the two ends of the DAY are known by most muslims as Maghrib and Fajr prayers. Therefore the time period in which Maghrib prayer can be offered, is still part of the DAY.

However, in Quran 2187 we are told to break our fast in the LAYL, which means Night. Therefore, if i break my fast during the time which Magrhib prayer can be offered, then i am techinacally breaking my fast in the day.

Therefore we must break our fast when Magrhib time finishes. (Maghrib finishes when Isha starts, so we should break our fast in Isha time)

Peace )

Salaam Niminak

I would like to retract everything i have said as i did not fully understand what MMA meant. Also, i feel i need to study the Quran, and the way of Allah a lot more.

Thanks.

Salaam Nimnimak_11

you said in your reply

In 423-24 we are told that we cannot marry the muhsinat women untill they become of MMA "Forbidden to you (for marriage) are...And the independent from the women, except those maintained by your oaths. So MMA isn't a plan B, its necessary before you can marry the muhsinat women. They must first become MMA to you.

I do not understand where you have gotten this from. When i read the verses 423-25, i thought it said that we cannot marry, married women unless they are MMA. And then verse 425 goes on to say, if we cant marry we should then marry MMA. I didn't read anywhere that independant women have to become MMA in order for us to be able to marry them.

Please quote me the verse which says this, i may have missed it ^_^

Salaam nimnimak_11
Thank you for replying to my post. I will first clarify my post as it seems i may have rushed it (as it was a bit late and i was sleepy).
In your first original post (please refer back to it) you stated this

The first limitation I will explain via the following Verses of 235-6

235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their spouses (azwaaj), or those who are maintained by their oaths (ma malakat aymanukum), they are free from blame.
237 But whoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors.

From these verses, it is clear that none should have access to the private parts except the following two categories Spouses (Azwaaj) and those who are committed to you by oaths (ma malakat aymanukum) Thus SO FAR sex can only be done with those two categories of people.?
You have shown that sex can only be done with Spouses (Azwaaj) those committed to you by oaths (ma malakat aymanukum). Then you go on to say
?If we look at a word by word translation, the word chaste actually isn?t there. What?s actually used is abstain. But his could mean to abstain from something different to sex such as abstaining from unlawful sex and not sex as a whole?.

So let?s assume that instead of chaste, the verse says abstain from Unlawful sex (as you suggested). Thus far, it can be concluded that the Quran says abstain from unlawful sex unless it is your Spouse or someone committed to you by oath.

Before we go any further, Unlawful sex is sex that transgresses the limits set by the Quran. You clarified these limits above.
Unlawful sex with your spouse is not possible as ANY sex is lawful with your spouse. This leaves us with being permitted to have unlawful sex with those committed to us by oaths (ma malakat aymanukum).

This is why you think sex before marriage is permissible, because according to the verses you have read, this is the only category of people which we can have unlawful sex (i.e. premarital sex).

However, my argument is that the Quran tells us we cannot have unlawful sex with people committed to us by oath (ma malakat aymaukum). I say this because of what is said in Quran 425

?And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the independent
female believers, then from those maintained
by your oaths (Ma Malakat Aymanukum)
of the believing young women..." - 425

This verse tells us that if for some reason we cannot marry the normal (i.e. independent) women then we should marry those maintained by our oaths.

Remember that, normally, to have sex with someone you must have married that person. However you suggest that we can have pre marital sex with ma malakat aymanukum. However the above verse clearly states that if you cannot marry then you must marry those committed to your oaths.

You may argue that the above verse does not stop us from having premarital sex with MMA as the verse is about if we cannot marry and not about if we can have sex. I don?t mean to offend anyone but one major thing about marriage is to produce offspring/sex. So what the above verse is also saying, is that if we cannot marry (and subsequently have sex) with the normal women, then we can marry (and subsequently have sex) with MMA.

So in conclusion we can have Premarital sex with MMA ONLY, if we marry MMA first.

This is the same as saying we can only have sex with MMA only if we marry them.
;D

Salaam everyone.

Have not had enough time to read all the posts so i do not know if the issue has been resolved but i will still reply anyway ^_^

Nimnimak_11, you say instead of chaste, the words abstain from Unlawful sex can be used instead. you also say that sex can be done with two categories of people; The possesion of our right hands (MMA) and our wives.

That means we can only have Unlawful sex with our wives and MMA. However any sex with our wives is Lawful. so this then brings up the point of MMA. A part in 425 of the Quran tells us that if we cannot marry the normal women then we should marry the believing women which our right hands possess.

?And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the independent
female believers, then from those maintained
by your oaths (Ma Malakat Aymanukum)
of the believing young women..." - 425

From this we can conclude, that if we want to have sex with anyone then we MUST marry first.

Please forgive me if you have found my post offensive in anyway, that is not my intention. May Allah have mercy on us and forgive us for our mistakes.

Salaam everyone!

This is from Quran.com. It is 6128 from the Quran. I thought this would be a point of interest

Sahih International
And , the Day when He will gather them together , "O company of jinn, you have many of mankind." And their allies among mankind will say, "Our Lord, some of us made use of others, and we have reached our term, which you appointed for us." He will say, "The Fire is your residence, wherein you will abide eternally, except for what Allah wills. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing."

Pickthall
In the day when He will gather them together (He will say) O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us. He will say Fire is your home. Abide therein for ever, save him whom Allah willeth (to deliver). Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware.

Yusuf Ali
One day will He gather them all together, (and say) "O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men." Their friends amongst men will say "Our Lord! we made profit from each other but (alas!) we reached our term - which thou didst appoint for us." He will say "The Fire be your dwelling-place you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.

The translations say at the end of the verse, 'you will stay in the fire for ever EXCEPT for what Allah wills'.
Is this verse trying to show us that Hell is eternal or that some people may be extracted? Also take into account that Allah is the Most Merciful. Allah is most merciful to everyone, including Non-Believers. So does that mean eventually everyone will be extracted from hell due to the most merciful attribute of Allah?

What is definite from the translations is that there is a possibillty that you may stay in hell forever (eternally). So therefore, hell itself, must be eternal. Whether people will stay in hell eternally is upto the will of Allah. Indeed, everything that happens, happens due to the will of Allah.

This is just my personal view on it, please try not to take this as fact. And please correct me if i have said anything wrong.
May Allah forgive us for our sins.

Salaam everyone

Just a couple of points i just wanted to leave before i go to sleep.

1. There are too many homosexuals saying they can't help it. Studies have tried to change homosexuals but have just failed.
2. The Quran does not explcitly forbid One man from loving another man (the last time i checked)
3. People who compare the "crime" of homosexuality with crimes such as peadophilia, rape and murder, are Just silly. Rape and murder bring unhappiness upon other people, whereas homosexuality does not affect anyone. (please note, a man raping another man is not homosexuality, it is Rape.)

Also, when praying, do i have to do the Sunnah rakas? That is for example, in Zuhr prayer, you should do
4 Sunnah
4 far
2 Sunnah
2 Nafl

Do i have to do The Sunnah parts of the prayer?

Salaam

This is my first post, so please forgive me if i do not speak as eloquently as most of you Do. I am new to this Quran only aproach aswell.
I was reading somewhere on the internet a few weeks ago, (maybe on this site actually!) that there is Quranic proof that there are 5 daily prayers. The person talked about how, in the arabic language, words can take on a singular, dual or plural forms. If i remember correctly, the person showed, from an ayat of the Quran, that the quran tells us to observe the 3 standard prayers and take particular attention "the two other prayers" or something like that.

I have found a website which says a similar thing as to what i read a few weeks ago. It too is a Quran only website.
http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm
It says

17.2 Salaat has been prescribed at specific times

(4103) ?Observe the ritual prayers; indeed the ritual prayer has been decreed upon believers at specific times.

17.2.1 The Dawn prayer

(11114) And observe (O Muhammad) the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight (dual plural = two entities, referring to the Dawn and Sunset Quranic time frames)?

(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before sunrise (lit. ?the rising of the sun?)?

17.2.2 Noon Prayer

(177 Observe (O Muhammad) the ritual prayer from the decline of the sun (?Duluk al shams? at Noon when the sun starts declining from its zenith) until the darkness of the night ?

(301 All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth In the evening as well as when you reach midday (when the sun starts declining from its zenith).

Remark ?Duluk al Shams? (?the decline of the sun? at noon in 177 cannot possibly mean ?the rubbing of the sun? (at Sunset against the line of the horizon), as some people have claimed, because the Sunset prayer has to be observed when the sun has completely disappeared behind the horizon (as it is made clear in 20130, the exact limit between the Afternoon and Sunset time frames is "the disappearance of the sun&quot, and it frequently takes over one minute for the sun to ?rub against the line of the horizon? at sea level and disappear completely. Salaat times are perfectly precise, not an approximation.

17.2.3 Afternoon prayer

(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (Dawn Quranic time frame) and before its disappearance (primarily the ?Afternoon? Quranic time frame)?

? The Quranic time frame directly located ?before ?the disappearance of the sun? is ?Asr (the afternoon, 1031). You cannot observe the Noon prayer in the ?Afternoon?, so the afternoon prayer is by definition included in the time period referred to as ?before the disappearance of the sun?.

? Exact same meaning in the following verse

(5039) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before sunset (primarily Afternoon, but also Noon prayer).

? The Afternoon prayer is mentioned by name

(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers (salawat), as well as the middle prayer (Salaat al wusta), and stand up before God with humility.

? The ?Middle? prayer is the Afternoon prayer, when the course of sun reaches the ?middle? between Noon and Sunset. The ?Middle? prayer is also the middle prayer of all Five daily prayers in Islam (Dawn, Noon, Afternoon, Sunset, Night). The Quranic time frame of the Afternoon is defined as ?Al ?Asr? (G.V. 391) in 1031. There are 391 verses from 2238 to 4142 (both verses included) which refers to the Middle (Afternoon) prayer

(4142) Indeed the hypocrites seek to deceive God, but He is the one who deceives them. And when they get up (or stand up) for the ritual prayer (after the Midday nap, see 245, they get up (or stand up) lazily (indicating they were sleeping),?

17.2.4 Sunset prayer

(11114) And observe (O Muhammad) the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight (dual plural = two entities. Referring to Dawn and Sunset Quranic time frames)?

(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (= Dawn prayer) and before its disappearance (Afternoon, and Noon prayers), as well as from the (first) hours of the night (= Sunset/Night prayers), and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities (regular plural = three or more extremities) of the daylight, that you may be content.

? The limit between the Afternoon and Sunset prayers is ?the (complete) disappearance of the sun?. Once the sun has completely disappeared visually in the sky at sea level, it is time for the Sunset prayer.

17.2.5 Night prayer

? The ?Night prayer? is mentioned by name in 2458.

? 20130 above says that we shall praise God ?from the (first) hours of the night (= Sunset/Night prayers), and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities of the daylight (regular plural = three or more extremities), that you may be content.?

? The Arabic expression which stands for ?from the (first) hours of the night? (Aanaa? llayl) is plural and describes an extended period of time that is much too short for the Sunset time frame alone described in 921 (barely an hour). Therefore ?from the (first) hours of the night? englobes both the ?Sunset? (921) and ?dark Night? (932) Quranic time frames.

Remark ?Celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities of the daylight? in 20130 is a regular plural (three or more extremities) which mirrors the dual expression ?both extremities of the daylight? (Dawn + Sunset Quranic time frames) in 11114. Therefore there are four extremities of the daylight (Crack of Dawn, Sunrise, Sunset, end of twilight), which shows that we shall observe the ritual prayer "at the extremities of the daylight

• Before the crack of dawn (Night prayer),

• Between the crack of Dawn and sunrise (Dawn prayer),

• After sunrise (Noon prayer); 1778 makes it clear there is no ritual prayer between Sunrise and Noon; the morning is the only Quranic time frame without a Salaat.

• Before Sunset (Afternoon prayer),

• From sunset until the end of the twilight (Sunset prayer),

• After the twilight (Night prayer).

This means FIVE daily ritual prayers, there is no way around it.

I hope this helps, please verify the information as well.

Allah is the Greatest, the all Powerful, and The most Merciful and Oft-Forgiving. May he forgive us for our shortcomings and what we may do out of ignorance.