What I find pretty amazing is that these morons insult The Quran big time by saying that it is incomplete and insufficient as well as comparing it's entire existence to that of the ahadith (a major form of disrespect) but these same knuckle heads will cause mass riots and chop off peoples heads if someone were to urinate on this same book or label it as "Satanic Verses". It's no wonder at all that they are the most hated group of people on earth.

Salaam/Peace Jafar,

You are well informed on a lot of issues and you seem to be on top of things.

And it's the same case as Bahrain, the Al-Khalifa families, cronies and sunni minions get 80% share of the total income from oil resources and they share the 20% to the rest of the people.

I was watching an interview a couple of weeks ago on LuaLua Tv and according to a gentleman who was at the time one of the representatives on behalf of The Bahraini People, they don't even get 20% of the revenues coming in from the Oil Exports. This is just ONE of the reasons behind the uprising of The Bahraini Citizens.

The Saudi's dynasty got a lot of fear to the shiites, due to their own wrongdoings to the shiites both in the past and up until today.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Shia_Muslims

Salam / Peace

This may be correct. I don't know. I am of the opinion that the Saudi Dynasty feels "threatened" by Iran due to Iran's Revolutionary Ideology as compared to Saudi Arabia. Each country stake claims to being Islamic Countries but only Iran has the testicles to stand up against The Great Satan and practice their sovereignty how they see fit without America's say so and regardless of how America feels about it whereas it's no secret at all that Saudi Arabia is one of America's many, many prostitutes that they have set up all over the world.

I seriously believe Iran, Syria, China and North Korea are the only regimes left on this planet which would have the courage to resist The United States' and The Zionist Occupants of Palestine's plans for complete world domination and, in the case of China, North Korea and Iran, the military strength to actually bloody their noses.

GOOD EARTHDOM!! Very Good!

I can tell that you are not ignorant like some others here and you seem to know how to peel off the layers to get a better, more detailed look at things and do your own thinking instead of allowing the media to do your thinking for you. Please keep it up my friend.

Salaam,

Earthdom is the ONLY PERSON so far who seems to understand the point of this thread.

And for the record those of you who insist on bringing up sectarianism and so called abandonment of these people by Allah, then according to your logic Allah must be on the side of the Zionist Occupants of Palestine, Great Britain and The United States REGARDLESS of how evil and monstrous the people of these countries are. Okay, I understand the mentality that I'm dealing with here. whatever

Like I said, read this thread from beginning to end so far and just know that Earthdom is the only one who gets the point of this thread.

drfazl,

You OBVIOUSLY have a lot to learn. I'm sorry to say that you don't know even half of what you think you know. You COMPLETELY missed the point of this thread and the reason that I am trying to bring this information to other people's attention. It would have been more prudent if you had kept your negative and condescending energy to yourself.

I haven't read it, but from the website it seems the author is familiar with my articles on "salat"
My article, quote

Familiarity? That looks like a full copy and paste job to me.

Here's his e-mail address if you have anything you'd like to ask or discuss with him

[email protected]

I got this e-mail address from his other website Islam of Allah

Somebody from the ourbeacon forum claimed that the author is Aidid Safar under yet another pseudo name, but he provided zero proof to back up that statement. I seriously doubt that it is Aidid. Aidid's name is already both famous and infamous (depending on which side of the fence a person is on concerninh him) so why would he craft another pseudo name when the name he is already using carries enough weight and popluarity? He already has a dedicated following and using another name would mean losing that following in search of a new (and probably different) target market. One last thing; as far as I know there is no free download of this book which let's me know that it isn't Aidid. This isn't his way of spreading his message. Even if the book is for sale, he will still have a free download option available on his website just like how he had it for Arab Conspiracies, Hijacking of Islam and now Mental Bondage.

@ PixelAngelBaby and Mirjanmur my heart truly goes out to you two because of the unfair predicament that you find yourselves in. It is very unfair.

@ PixelAngelBaby, Ahlan Beekee....if YOU are able to access Free-Minds Forum from Al-Qahira then so can others who are ALSO in Al-Qahira. I say this to you because of safety is at all a concern to you and you wish to keep your beliefs/views to yourself, then perhaps you should remove your pic from your profile and replace it with something else? The possibility does exist that someone who knows you can come across this forum, see the content of it, vehemently disagree with this content and just so happen to see that you are a member of this online group. Just my humble suggestion Ya Ukhtee.

Peace PixelAngelBaby,

I don't believe you and I have ever corresponded before but if it is no problem to you I would like to ask two questions

1). Do you live in a So-Called Muslim Country such as Pakistan, Malaysia, Jordan, Egypt, etc.?

2). Are you an Arab OR do you know the Arabic Language?

My reason for asking question one is because I think you and your husband should be very careful about sharing your non-traditional views with others if you are in a Sunni or Shia dominated country like Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Indonesia, etc. If living in such a society one must practice common sense and not try to prove a point due to the dangers that come about when expressing non-traditional, non-hadith based understandings of Islam and The Qur'an. If you do live in a traditional muslim society and there ever comes a time when you can migrate from such a place, then please take it.

Now, if you DO NOT live in such a place, but live either in the U.S., Canada or somewhere in Europe, then you do not have to "bite your tongue" out of fear of the ire of the masses. At worst, you would have to face the possibility of losing the love and friendship of family and friends. My wife and I have lost those connections a long time ago and we have absolutely no regrets. Since certain people have distanced themselves from us that just goes to show that they were no good for us anyway.

As far as my second question is concerned, if you are proficient in Arabic (I am speaking specifically of the Arabic of The Qur'an here), then you can equip yourself to respond to whatever questions or accusations come your way if you decide to come out of the closet. The Qur'an is your BEST weapon to fight against the ignorance that you are describing and if you are armed with proficient enough knowledge of Qur'anic Arabic, then you would be in the best possible position to defend and explain your views and understandings.

Once you show people what The Arabic Qur'an has to say on the issues that you speak of, those who never truly cared for you as a friend or relative will distance themselves from you and those who DO NOT think for themselves will disagree with you and hold on to their traditionalist views even without proof to substantiate those views. Those who DO think for themselves and honor you as their friend and/or relative will hear you out and just might come to see things the way you do. As Malcolm X once said...Time Will Tell.

I wish You PEACE and all the best in whatever decision you make.

Finally, traditionalists have made it one vocative particle meaning ?O?. They are wrong again, why? If it were one particle, why three words here instead of just which also means ?O? ?

I submit these are three words. a vocative particle meaning ?O? followed by noun from root Alif Ya Ya, meaning here ?thou? or ?you?. Finally, is which could also mean a female pronoun which will not make any sense here due to the context. Other use of is as vocative particle , in order to raise attention? and ?to wake up someone from sleep?.

Now let us put together a translation of this part of the verse.

?O you sleepy inattentive, prepare yourself to guard against the state of commotion, for your own advantage.?

That is a very interesting look at "Yaa Ayyuha" Brother Badar. I salute and applaud you for your work.

I would say keep up the good work and keep posting your breakdown and exposition. Only the smart people will get it. The stupid people (cough, cough, Noon and Mazhar, cough, cough) will not be able to approach this subject at all. It is obvious that they are not on our level so they should just sit in their little corners, fold their hands and learn something since they are obviously out of their league here.

I do understand your point dude..... However, You have made your point clear to them, so going in a circle wont help anybody... they can just check up your earlier post

Yeah, you're right. I can't argue with you there. I think this thread started off good but eventually took a turn for the worst as certain unproductive elements started to creep in with the hopes of derailing this thread.

For those who do not agree with my understanding, refuse to try and refute the points that I summarized and wish for this thread to be closed, I have to ask WHY even come to this thread then? If you're not going to show me where in my exposition I am wrong and correct it, then WHY are you here other than to be a distraction for those who are interested in this thread? This is what professional discouragers do. This is the Only Thread on free-minds that I am participating in because I am not interested in any of the other threads. If you're not interested in this thread and my understanding of this topic then why bother to even visit this thread at all? Just stay away and leave be those who really are interested in this topic and what I understand about it.

Now, FOR THE RECORD, YES I AM ignoring certain people here and there is a reason for that. What nerve do they have to NOT go through my linguistic and grammatical breakdown of 4/1 through 4/3 but insist that I answer their questions???? How much nerve does that take??? I refuse to dance to anyone's tune here. If you're NOT going to address and attempt to refute how I had broke it down point by point then don't ask me to answer anything you would like to ask me. Another thing is I have made it quite clear that my intentions behind this thread is to show how this word DOES NOT and CANNOT mean women in 4/3. If I could prove that it does not mean women here, then it does not mean women at all. Only one or two verses are needed to prove this. If it is proven in that one verse or two then obviously the understanding of this word is incorrect in those other 50 or so verses where this word is used. And if this word is incorrectly understood in those 50 or so verses that means all of the other words in those same 50 or so verses are also incorrect and need re-interpretation. My ignoring you is not a way of getting under your skin or a demonstration that I Can't answer whatever questions or verses you are presenting, it is that you are presenting the traditional translations which have the very interpretation that I am rejecting. This is a use of circular logic, completely flawed assumptions and a complete waste of my time!! This is the very reason I had to terminate my discussion with Wakas. He tapped dance the entire time and expected me to play according to the rules of his agenda. This is what people do when they cannot defend their own position or refute someone else's.

So now you know WHY I am ignoring you and will continue to ignore you UNLESS you are willing to address the things that I have brought up. That is the reason for starting this thread; to raise certain issues I would like to talk about and I'm not going to allow you to come and dictate your own terms of this thread upon me.

So to make it clear (again), I reject the traditional interpretation of the word Nisaa' and I reject the traditional translations of the ayaat that certain people are routinely posting as if that makes a difference on what I am saying in this thread.

To the ignorant ones who have nothing better to do than to be deliberate distractions and discouragers, I have to keep 25/63 in mind and just say peace

=================================================

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

a continuous absurd and hatred assuming a reversal of the party's opinions do not yield fertile ground for intervention by the moderator side nonetheless is the conviction that you learn skills in terms of appreciation for people's opinions. Furthermore, your skills in Arabic are at a minimal level, further confirmed by your Pakistani background.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

Sunnah Hero, I Salute You. handshake

I've done that more than once IDIOT!! Go back and read them. I'm not here to cater to you. I've done that already and I don't need to do it again just because you want me to. You use big words to try and make yourself look intellectual but EVERY TIME I have read something from you, I realize that you're not too bright actually. Continue to use your Harvard Facade to cover up what you lack.

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

Salaam Sunnah Hero and Thanks For Your Posts. It's always a pleasure.

Actually, I don't take either one of those guys seriously. How can I? It always happens in a forum such as this where some people only function as Discouragers and Moles especially when they simply Cannot refute that which challenges their position. I have asked from PAGE 1 of this thread for the defenders of the status quo to answer and refute the points I had reiterated two posts back. They Didn't. They didn't even approach them. Neither did they attempt to answer the questions I asked concerning the logic behind marrying a woman to help her.

So what do we get? We have the Mullah of Free-Minds asking moderators to assist him in burying his head in the sand and we have another person who obviously posts verses from a word-for-word translation and wishes to pass that off as Arabic knowledge. So again, how can I take them seriously? This is the reason that I am not paying either one of them any attention. If what I am saying is absurd and erroneous then why don't they just PROVE IT and get it over with?? I have repeated those same summarized points on more than one occasion in this thread and Wakas and his crew simply WILL NOT touch them. nope

In case this noon guy didn't get it, I'm going to repeat something you said Sunnah Hero

with all sadness my nooniiiii friend your entire argument and logic is based on false assumptions

Which is Exactly why I don't bother with him or that Mazhar guy. I reject the traditional translation of the word Nisaa and they are presenting me that same traditional translation as if I'm supposed to accept it because They are presenting it.

whatever

==================================================================

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

Well, I gave you a chance and you blew it. Congratulations. I now have to continue to ignore you and not take you seriously just like the other two amigos.

And you confirmed what I had already suspected. You Obviously don't possess sufficient grammar knowledge to refute them or else you would have made an attempt to do so. ;D ;D

As per 25/63 I will only say peace

==================================================

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

I'm going to post my points again for everyone to look over

*someone is being addressed and given instructions in 4/3. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

*We go BACKWARDS to 4/1 to find out WHO that someone is. It is An-Naas and An-Naas is People!! This includes men AND women. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

*By going back to 4/1 we know that it is NOT men alone who are being addressed in 4/3, but it is men AND women being addressed (and commanded) in 4/3. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

*4/3 has a masculine verb (Taaba) that is performed by An-Nisaa. How do we know? Here's how

A). It cannot be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is a 3rd Person Verb and I have yet to hear an explanation as to HOW a 3rd Person Verb can be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

B). The traditional Musafeer and translations say this verb (Taaba) means what is good or what seems good to you all, but I think this is incorrect as this would give the 3rd person masculine verb Taaba a PASSIVE meaning which is wrong. Tayyib means good. So something that would be or seem good to the 2nd person addressee would be Tayyib. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

C). Another word that is overlooked is the word Lakum which means To/For You all. Having ascertained that Taaba is in it's 3rd Person basic form, we see that it cannot be done by the addressee since Lakum is pointing to the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is 3rd person and Lakum is 2nd person. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

D). In spite of what some people may wish to think or how vehemently they wish to reject it, Ma Taaba Lakum Min An-Nisaa IS constructed in the Ma...Min Clause/Construct. I have yet to come across an Arabic grammar book that says this is bogus or does not exist. Studying the links to the grammar books I have given and carefully studying the sentence in question in 4/3 would reveal this in my humble opinion. Is all of this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please Linguistically/Grammatically Refute This.

*To believe that the word Nisaa means women but DOES NOT have a singular form (even though the words WOMAN and WOMEN are two of the most COMMON EVERY DAY WORDS in EVERY LANGUAGE) would suggest that the species that this word is applied to were not always familiar to the 7th Century Arabs just like the Arctic Fox, the Arctic Hare and the Walrus. New words had to be made up and coined for these three Northern Climatic animals since the 7th Century Arabs were not always familiar with them and we see how the Singular and Plural of each word are using two different sets of roots. Since this anomaly supposedly exists for Woman (Imraa'a) and Women (Nisaa&#039, this suggests to me that (just like the three aforementioned Arctic animals) that the 7th Century Arabs were not always aware of and familiar with Women and when they finally learned of the existence of women, they had to coin new terms for them in both their singular and plural form. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please explain how this so-called anomaly exists for a COMMON EVERYDAY word.

• Lastly, some questions were asked which were never answered. I'll repeat here a few of them. Since the defenders of the status quo cannot even answer just this one question, logically I cannot expect them to answer any of the rest of them. BUT...WHY must I marry a woman in order to financially help her? What road block exists that would prevent me for helping her financially if I do not marry her? Answer Please?

And if anyone here does wish to make an attempt at answering this question please keep this in mind The Monetary Contribution DOES NOT change at all. If I'm paying her rent or mortgage for her, groceries, utility bills, transportation, clothing, education and giving her spending money, the monetary output does not change if I marry her. So there's no change in the monetary contribution I am making if I marry her or not. Is this TRUE or FALSE? If it's false please explain why I cannot financially assist a woman unless I am married to her.

===============================================

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

LOL...Just As I Thought!! laugh laugh

Instead of addressing and trying to refute the points that I made this is how you get out of doing so

No you made no points!

If/when you are ready to tackle those issues let me know. Until then........

peace

====================================================

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

No, I admit that you are clueless about the word Nisaa' which is why I continue to post on the subject.

If you are able to address the points I summarized in This Post then give it a go. If you come back without addressing them then it's just more loud barking with nothing behind it in which case I'll not waste my time.

I have been reading this interesting thread off and on. Dammon has done a wonderful job of proving the point that word "Nisa? linguistically does not and could not mean "Woman".

Thank You Brother Badar.

However, nay sayers keep bringing other verses from same wrong translation that is cause of the entire problem. This is the point that is being high lighted. It is not a mater of one concept or one word wrong. It is all of it. It needs fresh start needs to be retranslated, letter by letter and word by word. Until this is done there is no understanding.

Yes, this is exactly what I have been saying as well in this thread. The nay sayers keep asking to explore this verse and that verse, what about the word here and what about there, etc. without realizing that EVERY WORD (including the word Nisaa) in those 50 or so verses also need to be reinterpreted. It's like they refuse to get it. But this is what preconceived notions and conceptual barriers will do. It impedes rational thinking and makes a person forfeit honesty.

FOR THE RECORD, I would like to make it known that I endorse and support Brother Badar's Translation efforts just like I support and endorse Dr. Qamar Zaman's translation project, and for the same reasons one of which Brother Badar just mentioned

It needs fresh start needs to be retranslated, letter by letter and word by word. Until this is done there is no understanding

Agreed. I came to realize the need for a total re-understanding of The Quran while I was still a traditional Muslim myself. And it is this bravery and taking up of the mantle that Brother Badar and Dr. Qamar have gained my respect and admiration.

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."

Released,

I can tell you from experience that this topic can really show a person's true colors. This thread alone is a testament to that considering how a few people who participated are not positive contributors but more like intentional discouragers (complete with rants and insults instead of tackling the issue). If you REALLY want to test the intellectual honesty of any male who claims to be a follower of The Quran, simply bring up this topic and the points that were raised against the beliefs that Nisaa=women and that 4/3 is mandating polygamy and watch the fireworks. I swear it is totally amazing.

A very small recap

*someone is being addressed and given in instructions in 4/3.

*We go BACKWARDS to 4/1 to find out WHO that someone is. It is An-Naas and An-Naas is People!! This includes men AND women.

*By going back to 4/1 we know that it is NOT men alone who are being addressed in 4/3, but it is men AND women being addressed (and commanded) in 4/3.

*4/3 has a masculine verb (Taaba) that is performed by An-Nisaa. How do we know? Here's how

A). It cannot be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is a 3rd Person Verb and I have yet to hear an explanation as to HOW a 3rd Person Verb can be performed by the 2nd Person Addressee.

B). The traditional Musafeer and translations say this verb (Taaba) means what is good or what seems good to you all, but I think this is incorrect as this would give the 3rd person masculine verb Taaba a PASSIVE meaning which is wrong. Tayyib means good. So something that would be or seem good to the 2nd person addressee would be Tayyib.

C). Another word that is overlooked is the word Lakum which means To/For You all. Having ascertained that Taaba is in it's 3rd Person basic form, we see that it cannot be done by the addressee since Lakum is pointing to the 2nd Person Addressee. Taaba is 3rd person and Lakum is 2nd person.

D). In spite of what some people may wish to think or how vehemently they wish to reject it, Ma Taaba Lakum Min An-Nisaa IS constructed in the Ma...Min Clause/Construct. I have yet to come across an Arabic grammar book that says this is bogus or does not exist. Studying the links to the grammar books I have given and carefully studying the sentence in question in 4/3 would reveal this in my humble opinion.

*To believe that the word Nisaa means women but DOES NOT have a singular form (even though the words WOMAN and WOMEN are two of the most COMMON EVERY DAY WORDS in EVERY LANGUAGE) would suggest that the species that this word is applied to were not always familiar to the 7th Century Arabs just like the Arctic Fox, the Arctic Hare and the Walrus. New words had to be made up and coined for these three Northern Climatic animals since the 7th Century Arabs were not always familiar with them and we see how the Singular and Plural of each word are using two different sets of roots. Since this anomaly supposedly exists for Woman (Imraa'a) and Women (Nisaa&#039, this suggests to me that (just like the three aforementioned Arctic animals) that the 7th Century Arabs were not always aware of and familiar with Women and when they finally learned of the existence of women, they had to coin new terms for them in both their singular and plural form.

• Lastly, some questions were asked which were never answered. I'll repeat here ONLY ONE of them. Since the defenders of the status quo cannot even answer just this one question, logically I cannot expect them to answer any of the rest of them. BUT...WHY must I marry a woman in order to financially help her? What road block exists that would prevent me for helping her financially if I do not marry her? (sorry, that's actually two questions P ).

And if anyone here does wish to make an attempt at answering this question please keep this in mind The Monetary Contribution DOES NOT change at all. If I'm paying her rent or mortgage for her, groceries, utility bills, transportation, clothing, education and giving her spending money, the monetary output does not change if I marry her. So there's no change in the monetary contribution I am making if I marry her or not. The only thing I can think of as to WHY a man should marry a woman that he's assisting is to get something in return from her. Stop hiding behind your false sense of duty to justify your sexual lusts you creeps. >(

Basically what Dr. QZ and the Aastana members are doing is something I realized must be done even when I was still a sunni, and that is we are Starting All Over From Scratch!! The people who altered and defaced the message did so by starting from scratch and they were very methodical about it. WE have to do the same thing IF we want to perform the correct surgery in order to repair The Quran's message and image.

"The Quran is NOT a Religious book geared towards men alone. It is a book of Social Justice geared towards women and men equally.The Quran is a document outlining the implementation of JUSTICE. It is NOT only upon males to implement justice it is upon males and females alike. Because of this, a document concerned with JUSTICE FOR ALL must also ADDRESS ALL!! That is why you find 41 - 43 being addressed to ALL PEOPLE (An-Nas). It is addressing all people and the system of justice it recommends is for the benefit of all people - 6/90, 12/104, 38/87, 43/44.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when The Quran is no longer viewed as a sexist, chauvinist, male centric religious book."