Its the pharos body that was found recently. He found it with very minimal decays.
The lesson is that the quran is divine to prophesize something like that.
A lesson to the non believer. I know a girl in Sri Lanka who became a believer in the Quran after reading about this.
Thats what it seems at glance. If it has any other lesson please enligten us.
Peace
OK brother. Peace.
Asim Iqbal wrote.
Not to offend any one . Just a thought provoking article.
You guys call it God-Alone. But you aren?t doing justice to this claim.
Please read the following thought-provoking article. It is worth the time as it may lead you to adopt a more careful approach. Remember following an entire viewpoint e.g. free-minds?s viewpoint blindly is never the wise decision. One must always keep his mind open for better and better understanding.
I appreciate your posting brother. Please allow me to clear some doubts.
God alone! Could you please explain what you think we call God-Alone? is it another fabricated name like "Sunni"?, a name of a website like www.harunyahya.com or something else?
Blind and open mind. I believe an open mind is being humble enough to accept that we may be wrong and we may be right but given the opportunity we will radically rethink our concepts while truly studying another.
Please forgive me but I cant see that you have studied even the postings on this discussion by Layth and Andya Primanda.
First of all if ALLAH isn?t the name of our Creator then what is it. God is not the name and we can?t justify it from any evidence. Similarly ilaah is different and doesn?t mean god, which is itself a name given by Christuians or Jews and taken up by some Muslims wrongly . As when you say God, this word is not unique. We often hear words like gods, godfather, godliness, godesses etc?. So this is a word some people have manipulated. And this word God has been defined differently by different religions and even different people within the same religion . See Surah Ikhlas for a brief introduction to ALLAH. The word ALLAH is different fro Al-Ilaah .
La ilaha illallah explains it all. On this read what Andya Primanda says here.
God, Gott, Deus, Allah, it's just different languages referring to the same entity.
Allah is not a name , by the way. My understanding is that it is a contraction of 'Al-Ilah' which literally means 'The God'.
You can always replace it with, say, 'Allah-alone' or '4JJI-alone' if you don't like the common term 'God-alone' used here. It's okay as long as we're referring to the same concept.
Is not this clear? Why should we consider gods name when we know there is only one god where ever you are and what ever language you use.
So I will not use this name any more. Suppose you are talking about
ALLAH-Alone.
Then what are the sources of getting information from ALLAH-Alone. Form your posts, looks like you will only take the Qur?an and leave all else. So you say that the Qur?an is the word of ALLAH.
Then I got news for you, the translations aren?t the word of ALLAH, nor their explanations, nor any articles presented on this web site, and none of these is from ALLAH-Alone as another person/persons i.e. translator or interpreter etc.. is involved and there may be bias in his opinion and other underatnding related problems.
The source = Quran
About translators, no one is infallible. But what we can see is that some will go to great extents trying to cover up (Leaving known words like Allah, Ayat as it is and translating other know words like Hadith as statement, Music and arts etc.) while going into history books of human origin and some will use all their power to delve deep into the quran itself to do justice on the translation.
So according to ALLAH-Alone, you should take the entire Qur?an as a whole and not cover up any Ayat. Only the original Arabic Qur?an can be used as this is from ALLAH alone and not the translations . Moreover the Qur?an must be taken as a whole. Don?t bring selected Ayaat from the Qur?an just to support your viewpoint. If you are really looking for ALLAH-Alone then take the Qur?an as a whole.
ALLAH didn?t tell us in the Qur?an to cover up any Ayat. ALLAH didn?t tell us that the instructions given in the Qur?an are not to be followed. And if you believe in ALLAH-Alone then you should also obey everything that is from ALLAH-Alone and if ALLAH orders you to obey some person in the Qur?an then obeying that person is still obeying ALLAH as you are obeying that person because an order to obey that person came from ALLAH Alone and if you disobey that person you disobey ALLAH . You may understand Qur?an better if you understand the situation of Revelation. Also some Ayaat refer to Salat etc? You will have to go to the Sunnah that has been preserved via the practical adherence of the Muslim Ummah to understand it. Hadith require exhaustive research to separate the unauthentic from the authentic and plans are there to separate the unauthentic from the authentic . It is our responsibility to atleast try to find any useful information and this exhaustive research may give some useful results.
Do you know The Qur?an was not revealed as a Book, but revealed via Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH?s Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him). ALLAH could have sent the Qur?an as a Book but HE Chose to reveal it to us through Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH?s Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him) . Like it or not we verbally received it from Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH?s Mercy, Blessings and Peace be upon him) . The Qur?an has been preserved via verbal adherence of the Muslim ummah to it. Similarly the Sunnah has been preserved via practical adherence of the Ummah to it . Note there is a big difference between Sunnah and Hadith.
Human made methods used on human made documents. These arguments have been dealt with and maybe we must read them and understand them and then counter with logical arguments with Quranic proof. Think a little, What minute part of the religion have been given to you from the Quran. Ever wondered why that in the hadith itself the prophet Muhammad tells you not to write down anything he utters other than the Quran?
Please read a little more from this site. OPEN MINDEDLY.
One more thing
Just ask what is a persons religion is. Sunni, Shia??? if they say I am not sunni or Shia but Muslim please ask why they follow Sunni Hadith, Sunni calendar, Sunni Five pillars, Sunni Kaleema etc?
(Ayat = A unit of the Qur?an, (Lit.) Sign, revelation etc.., wrongly translated as verse as some Ayaat are very long and some are like Alif-Laam-Miim ).
where did the free-minds view came from ! From ALLAH-Alone ?NO.
There is only one god. The only message we have with no contradiction (Kul Helna Araaithum min kana indallah), Infallibility promised by god himself is the Quran. Lets do our best to understand it. What better thing can any one think of doing?
Do not pursue what you have no knowledge of. Hearing, sight and hearts will all be questioned. (1736)
Those who listen well to what is said and follow the best of it, they are the ones whom Allah has guided, they are the people of intelligence.
Well said.
I prefer refering to the source. Don't take the web referral as a marketing excuse.
From the source you refer to please enghten us brother. We are all learning or trying to learn. The almighty, is the teacher of the Quran.
Peace
Thank you loads Ayman. This should do it. One big problem I have is my family and friends who look at me as if I am satans disciple. I need answers.
It's a shame I have been misguided for so many years. You are doing a great service and keep going.
Peace
Shohorab
Dear Ayman
I need understanding.
Your questions
1 Salat is not mentioned. Does that mean Salat does not have anything to with a physical direction so said in mecca?
2& 3 I think I get what you are saying. But we have only guessed and have been taught from hadith.
4 Compass, again to find the direction of mecca. If you don?t have one you are lost.
5 If he said QIbla the game is up? Same as leaving words like Ayat & Allah as it is and translating Hadith as tales etc.
Is it that the qibla as most believe is not a physical direction to mecca while Qibla does not have anything to do with Salat.
At Salat morning and evening are there restrictions in direction?
Thank you and peace
Shohorab
Dearest shamsul-arefin
The Quran says Islam is the only religion since creation. Do we think Arabic was created at the time the first atom was created? Or the single cell ameba was created?
Then what do you think Abraham would have called Islam. How about Moses, Aaron, Hud, Saleh, Shuaib & Noah. If you think that while speaking Aramaic Prophet Jesus called it Islam it is nonsense. Islam means Submission. What ever language you say it in it still is submission.
Think about the things people do to separate from others. Idolize their community, family, prophet, region, country, Color, race, money, power, clothes even religion itself. They idolize these things they can name. My community is X and we are special people descendants of Y. this is because they can give a name to their idol. Everything above can be given a name. Color ? Tan, Clothes ? rich, prophet-Jesus, family-Caesar, region-north etc. these names can be given a definition. Rich clothed people are affluent in society, Jesus is the son of god, Caesar is a royal family, etc.
If our religions name is Islam then we can give definitions. Islam = X+Y+100 multiplied by 1192 as most people do. But Islam is not a name. It is something we have to do.
Do you think that Abraham called God Allah? Ilohim was a jewish word in which they referred to god. Obviously Abraham would have called Allah by that name. Definitely not Allah. There is a reference in the Hebrew bible to god as Alah which is very close. Allah is an Arabic word for god and Muhammad was born an Arab. Jesus was a jew. Can both be Muslims? Jesus calls god ilahim and we call him Allah. Are we talking about separate gods? His gods name is ilahim and my gods name is Allah.
Allah is not something like Krishna, Shiva, Atlas or Zeus. These are names that you can name a man with if you want. When a person says my gods name is Allah it is like saying my fathers name is dad. In psychological studies there is a story of a toddler who was asked his name and the child said ?No mikey?. The name was mikey and the mother always says no mikey don?t do that, No mikey dont do this and child has heard it so many times that he has decided to himself that his name is 'no Mikey'.
God, Baghwan, Kadawul, Deviyo, Adonai, Ilohim, Teos all these are translations of the word god. Of course if you really want we can use one of these as a name.
Peace Mini Wati,
It is uelogistic praise unless the person is worthy of it. My brother, You are.
We must study historic documents to study Islam, its evolution & Islamic civilization, there?s nothing wrong with that. But if we associate any of this with our religion as law, way or method of going to heaven then we are committing idolatry. Besides, what ever is man made cannot be enjoined with the quran as religious law or teaching.
I wish to prove to you brother that if you read the volumes called hadith with the intention of associating parts or all of it to the religion only taught by god then you are commiting idolatry (shirk).
On what basis can we trust anything that does not come from Allah? They say A Hadith is accepted only when its authenticity has been established on the basis of both Fann-i-Riwaayat and Fann-i-Daraayat. Any document that claims to be from God, but in actuality is not would contain some form of error according to the Quran
"Do they not consider the Quran with care, If it had been from anyone other than Allah, it would contain many discrepancies (482)."
Who gave us the authority to judge by anything other than Allah?s revelations? Well, we have been doing so for over a millennium. Who are we any way? God?
Lo! WE DID REVEAL THE Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the Prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And barter not My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed such are disbelievers. (544)
AND WE PRESCRIBED FOR them therein The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed such are wrong doers. (545)
LET THE PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed; such are evil livers. (547)
AND THE MESSENGER SAITH O my Lord! Lo! Mine own folk make this Quran of no account.
Think logically. There is history but it is logical to think only a person who speaks to Allah can decide whether this history can become a document authentic as the Quran to associate as religious law & methods. To make a decision on religion other than what the Quran says you have be No 1. you have to be ilah (Divine) 2. Speak to Allah 3. Know a person who for sure speaks to allah. As the Quran is the Criterion (Furqan) none of these 3 could come true.
Most of us at least a lot of people that i know take both Al-qur'an and Haditz. From my point of view they seem take Al-qur'an as the guidance of life and treat Haditz as the supplementary guidance.
See brother, many people say what you have said above though through out the history of Islam (Since the first revelation Taurat) men have adopted The revelation (Written Tradition or word of god Torah, Quran) and stories (Oral traditions, Mishna & Gemara, Gospels according to st X, other books in new testament, Hadith etc) and this is the only reason why people are strayed. When you submit to someone you must listen to him and yourself only. It?s like a syllabus and the day of examination. You can study or read or do anything you want. On the examination day you will be judged by the syllabus only.
Think deep. YOu will realise that when we take oral tradition which is man made we always end up making it the basis of our religion. Would you believe it if I told you that by the time I was 17 I have read the Quran at least 15 times fully in Arabic and yet never knew what it was saying. None of us took the Quran even close to hadith. We had the idea or rather we were taught by our elders that Reciting the Quran in arabic is like mantra. It will bring good fortune and so on. Thats all. The way of life is totally based on Hadith.
If you think islam has only 74 sects and Christianity has another 75 sects you are wrong. Christianity itself is a sect of Islam. That is of course only if you believe in the authenticity of the Quran. Throughout our history you will notice that Allah delivered only written traditions. Scriptures perfected by Allah himself. We have always idolized the prophet, innovated with oral traditions and added it to religion by saying oral & and written traditions. Hadith or Sunna.& Quran. The quran kept on saying that it has been sent down through Muhammad to confirm the previous scriptures. We ignored them. It says not to adopt any other document as religious teachings. We ignored them. We want more. We want to look different. Feel big. Make our ego our ilah. Everything is more important than our creator?s word. The revelations.
See how we have split and kept on splitting. Written & Oral Traditions, idolatry & imams have always been part of our religion. Beyond Written revelation from Allah there are no other communications between us and Allah. Thus if we had only stuck to what Allah had said in his revelations we would all be united. Also, we will be upholding the pillar La ilaha illallah.
The people used to be one community when GOD sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes. Ironically, those who received the scripture were the ones who rejected any new scripture, despite clear proofs given to them. This is due to jealousy on their part. GOD guides those who believe to the truth that is disputed by all others, in accordance with His will. GOD guides whoever wills in a straight path. (2213)
Have you read this hadith brother. Prophet Muhammad said ?Do not write down any thing I utter other than the Quran? which is ironically mentioned in Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Muslim & that he maintained his anti hadith stand until his death Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 192.
When we watch the Bruce lee movie fist of fury we get enraged to see a board saying ?Dogs and Chinese not allowed?. Do you even dream that Islam would be worse than that? According to the books of Hadith, a woman is compared to a black dog or a monkey Bukhari 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86. if a woman or a monkey crosses your prayers are not supposed to be accepted by god. This is pure male chauvinism. The Quran on the other hand honors women and lifts up their status contrary to what is contained in the Hadith. A woman is called bad luck in the haidth (Bukhari 76/53). Also, according to the collection of Muslim (Sahih Muslim), most of the people in hell were of the feminine gender! According to Bukhari, "Women are naturally, morally and religiously defective." Therefore, by the standard of the Quran, no Muslim should accept such prejudiced Hadith as issued from the lips of the prophet of God.
Note what the Quran says about hadith.
Which Hadith, other than God and His revelations, do they uphold? In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe. Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution. GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God?s message. Such is God?s guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by GOD, nothing can guide them. (3923) YOu realise when you read a normal Quranic translation they have left the familiar arabic phrases like Ayat, Allah left in arabic text since we know what it means. But they will translate (Distort) the word Hadith as Speech, idle talks (Music & Singing), Statement etc. In the Quran you can very clearly see the arabic word Hadith and that translators are sending you astray since they believe in some thing and they will not let even the Quran prove them wrong.
The Almighty. Teacher of the Quran. (551-2) Praise be with god.
Peace
Shohorab
Thank you for your posts. See, the question who has the right to decide was embedded in my mind after this conversation.
Yes I thank god for not letting me follow what he was preaching me. The agony is to see so many people in Sri Lanka believe the same way he believes. I have seen many guys who have beards and arabic kind of clothes and are extremely religeous by the looks of it but are actually nasty. I am saddened to see that they are hated by Christians, BUddhists and Hindu's and Vise Versa.
So called muslims in my country totally believe in distancing themselves from the so called non muslims. Even if they believe in hadith they must still know that we must love all humanity. Since I have been with the Muslim community in Sri Lanka I regret to say that they are badly disciplined, un smiling, unkind and the young crowds behave so badly in public. Not all but the majority.
Wish god will show us the right path.
Shohorab
Hi
I have read many of his posts and I agree with all but are we going the right way friends.
DEar Albion. Why is this happening. I am sure you must be reading this. Give us something. Why??
I am sure we could discuss this.
Your brother
Shohorab
And can present a man without a wife, a woman without a husband or even children without a parent.
See Page 625 quranic dictionary, and lanes page 137-for a lot more clarification.
To see what Allah has said who he is referring to you have to look at the context whether children or women are the prime people Allah is referring to
2?S DOES MEAN TWO?S WHEN DID I SAY IT DOESN?T?
Twos means two at time brother. Not upto 2.
I was just being sarcastic back as you were to me.
I apologise.
Jazzak Allah. Wassalam.
Dear Mz357
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
On what basis do you say this says Widows. Dont just say this says widows but tell us on what basis.
Tanveer said
The ayat in question does not say "alyatama alnisa" but says "alyatama", meaning orphans (male or female), not widows.
mz357 wrote
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
Again, this ayat does not say "alyatama alnisa", but says "alyatama...........min alnisa", meaning orphans from the women, not widows. Here Allah is describing only those orphans who are women.
If you are disputing what Tanweer said above please give logical answers and facts rather than saying "SOrry but".
You asked
Either Marry off the women or what your Right hands posseses, Why marry off what you posses? So it isn?t marry off women neither.
I said
"Right hand possess" does not just mean what you possess. Then it will just say "Possess". Why??? Right hand possess means within your strong hands grasp. What you have a hold of. What you have control of. What you can manage. People working under you.
Prove me wrong please but tell me on what basis.
YOu said
you said
2. It does not say maximum four in that sense. It says 2's 3's and 4's not 2, 3 or 4 which gives a total different meaning. 2's means two at a time. 4's means 4 at a time. It does not limit you to four.
This is what the quran is saying
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
If and when you speak to a number of people ,in this case by the way Allah is speaking to the mankind it makes perfect sense to say
"O people you may marry women 2's ,3's 4's --e.t.c"
Check it with an english Grammer person.
You say we must pick widows of our choice and marry them as we please. Then why would god stress that women and men are equal in many places in the Quran. The verse does not say "You may".
And I did take your godly advice and asked "English grammer person". My wife who is an english graduate and is trinity qualified in Speach and drama and also Mrs. Holsinger who is a world renown english speach and drama "Person" included.
YOU ARE WRONG. 2's means two's. Not two.
or better still change it to the following to prevent prejudice by the monogomists and ask whether it makes any sense.
Thus you accept that you are a prejudiced poligamyst.
But last word please don't mistranslate the parts of the quran to your own believes or Allah will punish those who do that
It was not me who translated it brother. I am only a believer. And about Allahs punishment to me, If you can convince me properly I will repent my mistakes. I am sure Allah will forgive me.
You said
Sorry but you do need schooling again
And brother every body needs schooling.
God is the teacher of the Quran .
?The Most Beneficent. Has taught the Qur'?n. (551-2))
Have you (O Muhammad) seen him who has taken as his il?h his own ego (desire or lust)? Would you then be a Wak?l (guardian) over him? (2543).
Dear Albion
An Islamic scholar in our country also said the exact same thing. But he also argues that its not final and it could have some authenticity. Zoroasters teachings have been innovated and the religion Zoroastrianism or parsism is not what he preached.
1400 BCE was the year Zarathustra was visited by the angel Vohu Manah (Good Thought). He was told of the one god (Ahura Mazda = Wise Wise Lord) who created the the universe and worship him and none other than god and Zarathustra was his Messenger. Zarathustra or Zoroaster preached Monotheism.
See similarities.
Before Zoroaster there were many deities including Ahura Mazda. The day he claims to have seen an angel of Ahura Mazda who has sole prominence eliminated all beliefs in other deities.
Before Prophet Muhammad, arabs believed in many deities and Allah was one of them.
Ahura Mazda. The creator and uncreated.
The Holy Spirit ? Gods active agent or angel who god created.
Evil spirit ? ?Angra Mainhu? is the one foe of god. He is the creator of evil on earth and leads people astray against god.
My question is could he have been a messenger of god whos teachings were distorted??
The only religion approved by GOD is "Submission." Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejecters of God?s revelations, GOD is most strict in reckoning. (319)
We have sent a messenger to every community, saying, "You shall worship GOD, and avoid idolatry." Subsequently, some were guided by GOD, while others were committed to straying. Roam the earth and note the consequences for the rejecters. 16.36
Hinduism
In Purana (a holy book of Hindus) it is stated that Kalki Avatar would be the last messenger (prophet) of God in this world for the Guidance of the whole world and all human beings.
According to a Hindu religion prediction, the birth of Kalki Avatar, would take place in an isle which is Arab Region.
In books of Hindus, the names of the father and the mother of Kalki Avatar are given as VISHNUBHAGAT and SUMAANI respectively. If we examine the meanings of these names we shall come to a very interesting conclusion Take VISHNUBHAGAT= VISHNU (meaning God) + BHAGAT(meaning slave) = ALLAH + ABD (in Arabic) = Slave of God = ABDULLAH (in Arabic) SUMAANI= PEACE or Calmness = Aamenah (in Arabic)
In religious books of Hindus, it is mentioned that the staple food of Kalki Avatar would be dates and olives and he would be the most honest and truthful person in the region.
It is stated in Vedas (holy book of Hindu Religion) that the birth of Kalki Avatar would take place in an honorable clan. This perfectly fits the Quraish.
God would teach Kalki Avatar through His messenger (angel) in a cave.
God would avail Kalki Avatar with a very speedy horse to ride and travel the whole world and the seven skies. Indication of Buraaque (horse) and Me'raaj (the night when prophet travelled the seven skies).
God would also avail Kalki Avatar with divine help. This was particularly proved in the Battle of Uhud.
Another dazzling account given about Kalki Avatar was that he would be born on the 12th of a month. Whereas the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.S) was born on the 12th of the Rabiul Awwal (Islamic Calendar).
Kalki Avatar would be an excellent horse rider and a swordsman. The author here draws the attention of Hindus that the real days of horses and swords have gone and the present time is of guns and missiles. So it would be foolish on the part of those who still expect Kalki Avatar, who should be an excellent rider and swordsman to come.
Peace
http//img192.echo.cx/img192/8852/zoroaster6gq.jpg
Does any one know about this?
Shohorab
Andya wrote
Maybe it's because you come from a different background, but your treatment of Islam's sects still lack detail. You know, the four schools of Sunni, the Mu'tazilah, the Salafi, etc.
Yes you are correct. I am from Sri Lanka and largely Sunni's here follow Imam Shafis teachings. I am trying to understand the reasons for Islams sects where Christianity, Judaism included are Islamic sects.
If you could contribute I would be greatful.
Daniyar
Whoa! Well done. Great chart showing how divided we are.
I am doing home work brother. Be kind. There are two things that has been there in religion. Written and oral traditions. Since we believed in these did we divide. ANd when I say we I mean all of us.
Thank you
Shohorab
O ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals, with the exceptions named But animals of the chase are forbidden while ye are in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb for Allah doth command according to His will and plan.
This ayah says all but named exceptions (1. Carrion, Running blood, Pigs meat, meat blasphemously dedicated to other than God) are legal for us to eat.
Cool man. Its belief about poligamy. What I have realised is that we have been like this for a long time and are not willing to change the view point. I may be wrong but I still do not have enough as your explation is good but does not argue my point.
Peace brother. Lets take it as a learning session.
Shohorab
Sorry but the ayat is talking about the widows in this case who have lost the support (husband).
004.001
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.
Here The God is telling us something how important ,and the relationship between a man and a woman.
The arguments here are Does it say Marry or Marry off. Even if it is a Widow???
004.003
(O mankind) If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly/fairly with the ALYATAMA/widows then Marry women of your choice, Two?s , three?s , four?s; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or ma malakat aimanakum that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
Now he is showing us the way so the women arn't taken advantage of.But if we arn't capable of this method then don' try this.
(If you may recall in those times a lot of widows after wars!)
Are saying again that the Furqan was given to specifically "Those Times"?And also tell me what is the kind thing to do. Marry four widows or give them in marriage. What do you think the Furqan is advicing us to do here.
004.004
And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.
If chose this method give them their rights.
Look at the context of the ayah to see who is Allah talking about and what hardship Allah is talking about please.Its simple if you cannot handle more then one wife ? if its going to be hard then stick to one only.
And the maximum number is 4 ,and not a 100, but if it was the other way around marrying off then indeed a 100 or 200 wouldn?t make a difference as it is being done in the world where 100 or 200 people get married in many countries .
Did you read this part
Some may even argue that "It does not say 1, 2, 3 or 4. Quran says 2's 3's and 4's. Imagine if this is not marry off and really means marry then you can marry four at a time???
Did you read this part brother. Please read it and give me logical explanations. I am grateful for your arguments.
There are two extremes a human can do with his free will.
Eat all kinds of meat (Incl. roaches, rodents, swine, etc) and the other is not eat any at all. I agree with you brother MM khan. You are right. I am just trying to point out that God gives us room to decide with four exeptions. Rest of it you decide. The quran also does not say that you are allowed to be a vegetarian. Does that mean we cant?
Please also research this and tell me.
"So eat from that on which Allah's name has been mentioned, if you indeed believe in His revelations" 6118
"And do not eat from that which Allah's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile. And the devils they inspire their supporters to argue with you; and if you obey them, then you have set up partners" 6121
I do not believe this means you have to mention Gods name at the time of slaughter. It is at the time of eating. It could also mean that you have mention gods name at some point before eating it.
See. God has clearly given what is prohibited but has not really defined what is allowed as a list. Does this mean that you cannot eat anything that is not mentioned as you say in the Quran? Like Chicken for example?
mz357 wrote
we have to look at this from the point of of some 1400 years ago what was this ayah about then - by looking at the position of the ladies of that time -i think.
But obviously lessons of that time must be aplicable now too.
Peace be upon you my friend. We are discussing the Furqan here. Not some story according to Tom, Dick and harry where it will relate only to a specific time. No worries brother but Quran is absolute & Final.
I just dont understand one thing, why on earth a man has to marry a girl just to help ??? Cant we help in any other way...??? Did we come to this world with the purpose to get married ?? Why does we always create a scene as women always need a husband as support ?? OR else what ? Are girls helpless without a man ?
Correct.
Men and women, Men and Women over and over again. We are equal. The quran says men and women are Auliya of each other (9.71).
Lets look at these a little clearly shall we. Just forget everything you have ever known about this subject for a moment. They say "You must empty the tea cup before you pour". La ilaha Illallah.
No deity but god. No divinity. Only god himself. Quran is our only trusted source protected by the teacher himself. God.
(43) And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
Some may even argue that "It does not say 1, 2, 3 or 4. Quran says 2's 3's and 4's. Imagine if this is not marry off and really means marry then you can marry four at a time???
Marry off. What does it mean. Is it just organize a meeting between a male and a female and say "you are married. Now off with you". in this case as many say, 2's, 4's or 100's do not matter. its no big deal.
Quran is telling you to take care of the orphans. Marry off is organize their marriage. Its not easy. You have to find right partners. It costs you. maybe you might have to build something for them to live in. It depends on situation. In the case of a Tsunami that affected our country and you take some orphans to live with you? This is how you take care of them. If it is too much of a burden marry the women off.
But you have to be fair. All must be treated equally. You organize a marriage for four but in your heart you have a favourite who you love more than the rest. we are human! If you do not have what it takes (Money, resources) you must still be impartial. If you think you cannot then marry off one by one. Is not that fair.
These orphans could be any ones man. It could be your brothers.
"Right hand possess" does not just mean what you possess. Then it will just say "Possess". Why??? Right hand possess means within your strong hands grasp. What you have a hold of. What you have control of. What you can manage. People working under you.
You decide.
Please teach me.
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Thank you.