Peace be upon you,

Its been quite some time I visited this forum back. This topic especially interested me because I never quite understood as to why so many Muslims simply hate Jews.

When I first came to the United States from Switzerland, my cousins living here took me to the downtown and I assume there were several Jewish temples and communites in that area because as we rode in the car, all I saw were Jewish men with long beards, nicely dressed and their women in skirts, etc.

My cousins told me look those are Jews, they are our mortal enemies and I asked why and they said because the Jews were the ones who caused Muhammed so much trouble in his lifetime and they were the ones who sold Jesus and of course, the ones who gave God a lot of trouble.

I think it is as absurd as it can get to label a group of people as being "bad" based on no clear assumption. My best friend is a Jew and he is the nicest man I've seen in my life. I work around Jews and every single time they bring something to the office, they share it with me and tell me that it doen't have pork in it because they don't eat it either. God tells us in the Koran that even if an idol worshipper offers us peace, we should not mock him/her and tell them they are not believers. Then, why such ignorance?

edited

Thank you all for that information. However, the only URL I read Koran is this one http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php which as you may have already assumed, belongs to Submission.org

They've removed those two verses from everyone else' translation as well (including the translation done by free-minds.org).

Can you include those verses here or give me the link to a Koran where I can find them?

Thanks

Peace be upon you,

When I told him that we do not need the hadith because the Quran if fully detailed he replied ?Did the Quran teach us how to comb our hair and how to brush our teeth??

glndcp, this is precisely the issue I face when I try to convince people into beilieving that yes, indeed the Koran is complete. I also add to this fact, another fact, which is that the Koran contains no NONSENSE such as telling us how to brush our hair and teeth.

God knows we know how to do these things. The Koran contains things that are necessary for our salvation and brushing hair is not a requirement for a peaceful hereafter.

Peace be upon you,

Thanks again Fatima for that explanation. I did understand some of the points you made, however, I might have to review them a few more times to better understand their underlying meaning.

No, not neccesarily( FYI, the word nis'e is mentioned in 9 37 )

Verse 937 reads

Altering the Sacred Months is a sign of excessive disbelief; it augments the straying of those who have disbelieved. They alternate the Sacred Months and the regular months, while preserving the number of months consecrated by GOD. They thus violate what GOD has consecrated. Their evil works are adorned in their eyes. GOD does not guide the disbelieving people.

I beilieve you meant to say verse 314; is that right? If yes, then I guess this would clear 90% of the problem I am having understanding the concept behind this verse. If the word used in 314 is nis'e and not annisa then, yes, there might be a totally different "ending" to that verse.

So, just so I get it straight annisa in Arabic purely means "women"; whereas, nise might mean woman, but also modern/newer things?

Thank you

Peace be upon you,

I guess mine would be a very naive and "common" answer with its roots from Chrisitianity and so forth as I believe Micheal is an angel just like Gabriel. However, I am not sure, this is what I heard from the Christians and Jews (and even most Muslims).

Peace be upon you,

He says that word nisa'a here doesn't refer to the purlal of woman but to the purlal of nas'e . The word nas'e refers to something that comes later or after ( which could also mean it's newer or more modern).

Fatima, thanks for that link. However, I speak no Arabic and I'd like to ask you a favor, if you do speak Arabic then could you please skim a translation of that article for me? Just the main points. I tried sending you a private message regarding this, but I guess it did not work.

Also, here's my question How would one know in what sense what word is being used? The word used is clearly "nisa'a" which means women. Now eventhough it means modern/new, do you think the case would be the same with all the places in the Koran where the word "nisa'a" is used? Could God use a word that is so close to having two totally different meanings?

For example, a verse says "...for the believing men and believing women...God has prepared Paradise". Now, if we were to use this theory, it'd translate instead to the believing men and believing modern things God has prepared Paradise. How could that be? Even the majority of Arabs 1400 years beilieved the word "nisa'a" to be a woman and the proof is the fact that God used that same word whenever woman was to be used in the Koran. If people had double meanings, then a clearer word would have been used, as God tells us this Book has been made easy to understand with no difficulty. Now, let alone the dilemmas we are having understanding the word now in the 21st century.

I am sorry, I am having a bit difficulty understanding this concept. I came to a differnent conclusion (which you can read above), but I am open to what you have to say as well.

By the way, the person who wrote that article (whose link you posted) Dr. Muhammed Shahrour is he an Arab? Is Arabic his native language? Through my experience, I think it is best to ask such questions to those who speak that language and are fluent in it, instead of asking those who can only understand is so-much.

Also, now that I further investigated, some translations use "O men..." instead of "O people" for that verse. You can read them here
http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php

Thanks for your help.

Peace be upon you,

That's a very sane and intelligent post savage_carrot. I agree.

After reading that verse several times, I've come to the following conclusion

1.) It is addressed to all "people" - men and women included.
2.) Since its addressed to both, God choose things that appeal to both.
3.) Women appeal to men
4.) Children appeal to men and women
5.) Piles and piles of Gold and silver appeal to women
6.) Trained horses appeal to men
7.) Livestock and crops which were equivalent to money, I guess appeal to those who are hungry for more money and are thus stingy which I can say will full confidence include both men and women.

The hypocrite men and the hypocrite women belong with each other - they advocate evil and prohibit righteousness, and they are stingy. They forgot GOD, so He forgot them. The hypocrites are truly wicked.

Of course there are exceptions as we all have different wants and needs. Some women might want horses, while some men might want gold and silver. But these are what the majority have known to do.

That's my understanding. Women don't drive anyone away from God.

The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense.

There, God has equated both to have exactly the same capactityand capability to do what is expected of them by God. And whose testimony is greatest than God's? The rest is all nonsense.

Peace be upon you,

i dont see this verse as "not dating". But maybe i am wrong. I see "not letting couples be alone". But i see no evidenec of couples not be together period.

Oh yeah, you are right. I meant not IF it involves sleeping or kissing which is what the devil wants us do when alone.

But is kissing and "cuddling" sex or taboos, I dont know nor do i think they are.

Well, I am not going to debate with you. But imagine if sleeping in a bed with someone you are not married to, cuddling them or kissing them would have been okay; then go as far back to the prophet and his wives.

Would it have been okay if he or his wives kissed, laid in the bed with someone else or cuddled those who they were not married to? Of course not. Then, the same applies to us to since just like them we are believers as well.

Personally, I would never even let anyone touch me who I am not married to. And if I did, then even God might forgive me, but I'd feel dirty, shameful and never forgive myself.

God knows the truth, but I'd like to be as pure as I can.

"women" are driving the righteous men AND the righteous women, away from God!

How so?

Peace be upon you,

Yankee Doodle and Roshan, my point exactly. Why wasn't the word "spouses" used? I checked out all seven different transaltions of the Koran I can find and they all said "women". It seems as if "women" are driving the righteous away from God! Besides, it feels like the entire Book is addressed to the men.

Elena, I am doing the exact same project, which is finding out the percentage of times the Koran addresses the men. I have only two more chapters of the Koran to go, which God Willing I'll get done by next week. Once compiled, I'll let you know.

Thanks all,
*

Peace be upon you,

Although I am no scholar on this subject matter; based on my understanding of the Koran I'd say dating is a no-no in Islam IF it invloves unmarried couples kissing and lying in the bed with each other.

2235

You commit no sin by announcing your engagement to the women, or keeping it secret. GOD knows that you will think about them. Do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to discuss. Do not consummate the marriage until their interim is fulfilled. You should know that GOD knows your innermost thoughts, and observe Him. You should know that GOD is Forgiver, Clement.

God is very upright and if God does not want an engaged couple to even meet with each other secretly, then those who have no relationship with each other (and are basically having a good time) lying in each others bed would be wrong.

This is my understanding. Hope someone else has any better ideas to help you out.

Peace be upon you savage_carrot,

Thanks for that reply.

Just a question, which objects in life are commonly known to lead, er, let's say, men astray from the righteous principles?

Money? Children? Power? Lust for life/women??

You are right, power, children, money and women are all things men lust over.

But my question was why were women included among material things on this earthly life? (Not mine actually a person asked me this who is studying the Koran).

Thank you,
*

I just twisted your question according to the verse. I guess we all see what we want to see.

I believe I did a pretty good job explaining my question. I am not sure what you did by twisting? I am not blaming ANYTHING ON GOD. This was a question I was posed by a non Muslim.

Did you read my post?

Yeah, did you read it yourself? roll

I guess I'll just wait for others to respond wink

Who's 'objectifying' women here?

Did you read the verse?

Peace be upon you,

I am just curious as to what any of you would do in such a situation as I am currently facing it.

Each year, I donate a certain sum of money to our neigborhood mosque for expansion and other construction purposes. Its been about 7 years, I believe, that me and several other visitors to the mosque have been donating (and of course, no mosque yet!)

So far I believe I've donated thousands of USD and each year in mail right before Ramadan I get an inviation to donate even more. I was very well aware that this mosque was/is/and always will be a Sunni mosque. However, not until recently, I stared to dislike every aspect of this "construction".

They lauched their website recently (based on donated money) and on it, they've got things included that I don't believe and won't support. For instance, as soon as you enter the site, the first thing you see is the Hadith of the moment - were each time a new statement from the hadith is posted. No Koranic verses anywhere!

Next, as always I was interested to see what they had under women in Islam cateogry and of course they claim that a woman must obey her husband to the limits to ensure a safe hereafter. A woman can't fast without her husband's permission, she doesn't have the right to choose her kids name's, she can't leave her home without husband's permission, etc.

Inside the mosque, there are wooden art works - one says Muhammed in Arabic and the other Allah in arabic, side by side and they are held high up on the wall. Every time we bow, those art works are above our heads.

The day at the mosque begins each day with "Dars-E-Hadeeth" which I believe is reciting and explaining the hadith. Right after prayers, the glorify Muhammed and start humiliating the visitors by asking them to donate huge sums of money for the construction. How absurd do they have to be to ask one person to donate 25 thousand?

I clearly can see people in front rows being humiliated as the man points fingers and says, how much will you give, etc.?

I don't stand up for what they believe in, but I feel guilty if I don't support the construction because, to be fair, they do recite the Koran as well. Its not like they've compltely abandoned it, but their ideas are very paganistic.

What would any of you do keep donating or no?

edited

Peace be upon you,

I started studying the Koran using Rashad Khalifa's translation, as it was the only one that made more sense to me when compared with Yusuf Ali, Sher Ali, Picktahall etc.

However, my question is, I know Submission.org claims (and have removed) two Koranic verses from their translation. Since I am using their's I am not sure which two verses, they've removed. Could any of you be kind enough to let me know?

Thank you,
*

Peace be upon you,

Please read the verse I've included below (especially the underlined portion) and tell me if you think God is objectifying women.

Adorned for the people are the worldly pleasures, such as the women, having children, piles upon piles of gold and silver, trained horses, livestock, and crops. These are the materials of this world. A far better abode is reserved at GOD.

So, women = materials of this world which are pushing men away from God and therefore towards hell?

Also, women = materials similar to gold, silver, horses and crops?

Any comments welcome.

Thank you,
*

Peace be upon you,

After reading Chapter ?Joseph? of the Koran, I came to the following conclusion (based completely on what the Koran told us; no implied or assumed guesses being made here) about him.

I request any/all of you to tell me what you think and correct what I?ve included below, if it seems incorrect.

First, let me start of by saying that at the very beginning of Chapter ?Joseph? God tell us

We narrate to you the most accurate history through the revelation of this Quran. Before this, you were totally unaware.

In chapter ?Joseph? (12), God tells us nowhere that Joseph was given a scripture like Moses, Jesus, David or Muhammad. Neither do we have any instances were we see Joseph fighting the pagan Egyptian kings/queens or people by asking them to convert to the path of God alone by leaving their paganism like Moses, Solomon, Lot, Shuaib, Jesus or Abraham did. There is only instance where we see Joseph preach monotheism (to the prison inmates).

Other than this Joseph seems like an ?average Joe? who is fighting to remain righteous in this world and trying hard to make a living by working as the treasurer for the king.

In fact, Joseph himself says this

They said, "You must be Joseph." He said, "I am Joseph, and here is my brother. GOD has blessed us. That is because if one leads a righteous life, and steadfastly perseveres, GOD never fails to reward the righteous."

Thus, according to Joseph himself, he was blessed because he simply lead a righteous life and was patient. So, what exactly did Joseph do for God?

What do you think?

Thank you,
*