I forgot to say the quickest way to refute such argument is say bring your top 3 strongest difference it makes to the meaning of the text. Most will run away and not answer as they know the examples of differences they have are inconsequential.

OK.I dont understand arabian,so I can not write something I dont know.
I found this video post it because subject is Sana Manuscript.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNdvsLh128Q&feature=player_detailpage
It says that the oldest quran is not same we have nowday.

It is ridiculous to relate the following of the Prophet with violence. Followers of the Prophet experienced violence against them for a long time. So it was not the Prophet who needed or wanted violence in order to gain adepts. They came to him without bieng pushed, quite the opposite, and of their own will in spite of tremendous odds. Violence was on the part of those who opposed the Prohphet with the intent of preventing people following what he was ordered by God to transmit.

Salaam

Yea, and prey they shared after battles was in fact not in killing battles with swords no...
It was something else and I do not understand very wall.

But how Mohamed was spread faith?
Is there any violence at all?

I never sad anything about terorism suicide an killing innocent people.I know that it is not jihad.
I say about killing in general,what hapens,acording the Quran.When you kill some pagan,in the name of God for example.
And that someone who do such a thing is better in God eyes than someone who is afraid of battle.
And that are we are not equal in eyes of God with brave believers ready to die.It is what it writes in Quran,dont tell me it is not a true.

May be this help you.

http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/the_concept_of_jihad_(P1360).html
sun

O.K,now I am going to read.... sun

86,7...they was just...doing what?
And what you think you are equal with people killing in the name of God?

Maybe vicious to you,but did I wrote any lie?
Is to kill someone in the name of Allah part of jihad or it is not?
I dont wont to be a liar to say that it is not true,when it is true?
Can someone say that it is not a true?
What is one of the comand acording ti Tora?
Do not kill!

Just one my conclusion,and you give me proof if I am wrong.
God loves more people who died on his way.
It way is not just war,it is also charitable,forgiving...
Someone can die in way of way that it is not in battle.
But...it can be way in battle and war.Just tell me,when Muhamed start with his calling in islam,first it was calling without war,and after?Does someone kill ever somebody in the name of Allah...ever?
And who suffer after?Sister,women,daughter of that unbeliever who did not recognize Gods prophet?
God sad"You must love more me than your sister,your wife,your father".I must tell you sincerely,I love more my kids my,mother and sisters than God.And because of that,God loves more other people than me.I am not good muslim in his eyes,I could not kill never,never in his name.Mohamed could,but I am not such a good believer...
In fact he could have sex with kids,but we are not all perfect...

Peace Stone,

Maybe an example will demonstrate what some here have been trying to say regarding 3169.

If an old person was struggling to cross the road and you help them. While doing this, a car hits and kills you.

In this case, you were serving God by assisting someone. Would you not qualify in terms of 3169?

Imraan

Peace to you,I understand your example.

Stone, i don't know why you associate "killed in the cause of GOD" and "killing and go in war" (your original question).

I just want to open up your eyes to the possibility of getting "killed in the cause of GOD" while at the same time, NOT trying (not even intending) to "kill" anyone with just one example out of so many http//rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Yes, by being CHARITABLE. And yes, by FIGHTING AGAINST OPPRESSION.

Peace bro san,
Associate kill in cause of God with killed in cause of God...I dont know why.
Maybe because I did not have idea in my had how you can die on Allah way and that not be war.So I made link between this two things.Example you give me with this link help me a little to realize that it is possible ti die on Gods way and that is not necessarily in war.

Stone, I prefer logical discussion.

In any case, let me summarise

Yes, those who strive in the cause of God, are better than those who do not, and striving takes many forms, as can blatantly be seen in The Quran. In some contexts it is striving with the message, it is doing the right thing, it is being charitable, it is fighting against oppression, it is forgiving, it is being just etc. Those closest to God is not exclusively linked with the phrase "striving in the cause of God".

I agree Wakas,logical discussion,I prefer it also.
I go slowly...with patience...First,I type word "strive"in my google translate.O.K...I understand...
Now,reading again your post,striving with the message,charitable,forgiving...it is logical...
And there is 4;169 now.How this go with "strive"?I read it again"Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of GOD are dead; they are alive at their Lord, enjoying His provisions."They are killed cause they been charitable?They was fighting against oppression?They are not just closest to God,they are directly with God.Without any trial.

So we have now established "jihad" is not exclusively about war/fighting/killing etc.

Now, all we need to do is compile the verses that talk about who is closest to God etc. Then see what it says.

Have you done that?

I never say that jihad is exclusively about war.But war is part of jihad.And God likes more when we are in jihad,so we are not equal with people are not kiiling in war for Allah.This is what I say.
Tell me if you must to go in war for God what you will say?It is not in jihad?It is not writen in Quran?

MUHAMMAD ASAD Such of the believers as remain passive? -.other than the disabled -cannot be deemed equal to those who strive hard in God?s cause with their possessions and their lives? God has exalted those who strive hard with their possessions and their lives far above those who remain passive. Although God has promised the ultimate good unto all , yet has God exalted those who strive hard above those who remain passive by a mighty reward

USAGE There doesn?t seem to be a pressing need for this English-friendly form since the Arabic term for a holy warrior, mujahid, has already made it into English in plural forms (mujahideen, mujahedin), along with jihadi, a form more in keeping with Arabic morphology. Jihadist, however, is the preferred form for all writers who are vehemently anti-Arab or anti-Islam.

A quote from M Asad.

Having defined Jihad in the previous article, we can describe a Mujahid as someone who strives to uphold justice, perhaps risking his life in the process. So what do these verses say? They are elevating the status of those who are brave to stand up for truth and justice in the face of oppression. The verses elevate their status over that of those who cowardly hide from defending the rights of others, unless they have a disability, which prevents them from doing so. So the Islam-hater finds no support (for their distorted presentation of Islam) in these verses either. Moreover, the verse supports the interpretation of Jihad as any struggle for the sake of God because it has mentioned those who perform Jihad with their wealth by donating it for a good cause, such as humanitarian organizations. As Muhammad Asad writes about this verse

The term mujahid is derived from the verb jahada, which means ?he struggled? or ?strove hard? or ?exerted himself?, namely, in a good cause and against evil. Consequently, jihad denotes ?striving in the cause of God? in the widest sense of this expression that is to say, it applies not merely to physical warfare (qital) but to any righteous struggle in the moral sense as well (Asad, The Message of the Qur?an)

O.K Thank you for this post.
I understand term "Jihad".It is not just war,I know.
But,we must agree,it is and war.What I want to say,jihad is not just a war,but "inter alia"it is and war also.
Or if you dont understand me,is jihad possible without a war?
And finaly,the subject of topic,people in jihad are not equal with people not in jihad,and if jihad is and war it means that are man who is not in war is not equal with man in war.This not complicate to understand.

I gave you a simple way to determine if "fighting in God's way" means in war and killing etc.

I said "Thinking it is may be different to what it actually is. A simple concordance check will do."

You have not provided any evidence you actually looked into the usage of the phrase, which underpins your opening statement.

I recommend www.StudyQuran.org

Look bro,I believe in God.I dont want to ignore anything,just want to make clear some things...
What I looked in the phrase is maybe what unbelievers say about Quran,but I have problem with this.
When somebody read 495 and you say"It is not about war"O.K I understand but then we have 3169 and what to think?How they die on Allah way?There was no war,there was not killing but they are die.
Was they just talking...calling people in islam?

Did 494 completely go over your head or are you deliberately ignoring it?

Your world view seems to be directly influenced by what the propagandists imagine 'jihad' to be. I recommend reading the Quran with an open-mind, and stop taking verses out of context.

No.

Interesting thing is that every time when someone say "war"and "Quran"he is propagandist and jihad is not that"what they think".It seems there is no word such kill,war,in Quran.

So,you want to tell me that 495 is not about war,about killing other people and that God more like people which killing in his name?

I assume you have read The Quran?

Sure,that is why I am asking.I understand that Allah more likes people ready to die on Allah way.
This is no corect?

Thinking it is may be different to what it actually is.

A simple concordance check will do.

If the word JHD is used, then to my surprise when I studied it, there is only one occurrence that talks of a great striving

And if We wish, We could send to every town a warner. So do not obey those who deny the truth, and strive against them with it (The Quran) in a great striving.

Does it mean that Quran did not call to die and kill for Allah?
My understanding is that people are not equal on the face of God and that they are split between people who are ready to die and kill on Gods way and the others not ready to doo that.Am I wrong?

Is "striving in the cause of God", about killing and war?

Yes,I think it is.That is why my question.We must be ready ti kill in the Gods name?
We are not quite good like others people ready to die and kill.