Peace.
I do not know if all who frequent free-minds.org are in the first category, but I can definitely see your point...I can see the different types of views.
There are those who are all literal and then those who are allegorical.
I am beginning to see what you are saying even clearer than before.
I will no longer be coming here...
Peace to all the believers.
last time as YTV
Peace.
Layth I can see where you are coming from....
Question
Isn't there a verse that says something along the lines of the blood doesn't reach me but the piety of the heart, or something to that effect?
YTV
Peace.
I appreciate your prompt reply to my post. I am wondering what is the root I should be looking up?
Any assistance would be highly appreciated.
YTV
Peace.
Fact 1. The units of daily Salat prayers consist of 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4 units, a total of 17 units. The number 24434 is a multi-ple of 19
2 4 4 3 4 = 19 x 1286
The digits of 1286 add up to 17, the total number of units prayed each day (1+2+8+6 = 17).
Furthermore, the units of daily Salat prayers followed by the sequence number of the prayer is also a multiple of 19
2 1 4 2 4 3 3 4 4 5 = 19 x 112759655
I have taken this information and verified it as being valid.
My question is where did you get the numbers 24434 from? hadith? I do not understand where you got the orignal number from? or did you just verify the hadith's number of rakat from the code 19?
Please define where you intially got this number from? I know you stated it was from Abraham..but where quranically did you pull the rakat number from?
YTV
Peace.
I previously read the articles about salat from layth and wakas....now I have come across the submitter perspective....now I am even more confused.....
they say 7431 over it is nineteen.....etc etc and I have checked and rechecked the numbers for salat and it does add up right...
24434 is a multiple of 19 (1286x19)
so I wonder if anyone layth or wakas has come across that information....
and if so how did they disregard it as false and on what basis...
I am a bit perplexed.....
seems once a person gets a firm handle on what they belive a new twist comes along.....
YTV
Peace.
After viewing this movie I will attach.... it may not be any object can harm or benefit you, but any person can not harm or benefit you..Allhu Ellem
http//www.quranalone.com/media.htm
click on the real one movie entitled "King of Chaos"
YTV
Peace.
What is all qamoos?
IS that a person or a book?
YTV
Salaam IQO
From the ten dictionaries you cited, only three could be considered classical Arabic dictionaries Lisaanul 3arab, Al Muheet and Tajul 3aroos (Lane's is a translation of Tajul 3aroos, that's why I did not count it though it is classical). Hans Wehr is what it calls itself Dictionary of Modern written Arabic. Others copy from, mostly, Tajul 3aroos (if it does say khimaar is headscarf. I am taking your word), since other dictionaries do not go into details as what khimaar is definitely.
Here are two classical dictionaries, out of the three, which you cited as proving that khimaar is head scaf. It seems that those who mentioned a plural for it had (khumur) as a third choice; the first being "akhmira"
Al Muheet
.
Translation
Khimar is naseef; like the khimirr; and anything that covers something is its khimaar. Plural akhmira; khumr and khumur
Lisaanul 3arab .
.
Khimar for the woman is the naseef, and it is said khimaar is what the woman covers her head with.Plural akhmira, khumr and khumur. takhammarat and ikhtamarat bilkhimaar wore the khimaar; khammarat ra'sahaa blkhimaar covered her head with it.(so just wering a khimaar does not mean she covered her head, unless explicitly mentioned, as underlined. Therefor, khimaar is just a cover, as is already explained in these dictionaries).
As for the third, Tajul 3aroos, I did not check it. I'll leave it for those who are following this thread to check Lane's under Kha Meem Raa
Peace Sister Samia,
Again I appreciate you putting this information up. This information was useful to me. I do not know why someone would call you a leader, but I think you are calm level headed person who uses facts and doesn't display alot of emotion, but uses logic and reason with supporting evidence , and this is why I enjoy to hear your side as well, not because I think you are our leader(how ridiculous..if anyone knows what we beelive in here the idea of having a leader is absurd), for God's sake you know how some men feel about women leaders obvious from yesterday's assassination.
I also wanted to post a snipet from an article that I read, and get some feedback on this, since it is relevant to this issue
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments ... that they should draw their KHIMAR over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands.." Y. Ali's translation, with the word khimar put back in place.
"Khimar" is an Arabic word that means, cover, any cover, a curtain is a Khimar, a dress is a Khimar, a table cloth that covers the top of a table is a Khimar, a blanket can be used as a Khimar..etc. The word KHAMRA used for intoxicant in Arabic has the same root with Khimar, because both covers, the Khimar covers (a window, a body, a table . etc.) while KHAMRA covers the state of mind. Most of the translators, obviously influenced by Hadith (fabrications) translate the word as VEIL and thus mislead most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head.
In 2431 God is asking the women to use their cover (khimar)( being a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a tie, a scarf . . . etc.) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hairs. If God so willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, nothing would have prevented Him from doing so. GOD does not run out of words. GOD does not forget.
God did not order the women to cover their heads or their hair. He was not waiting for a Scholar to put the words for Him.
The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (2431), but the Arabic words for HEAD, (RAAS) or HAIR, (SHAAR) are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.
The last part of the verse (2431) translates as, "They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies." The details of the body can be revealed or not revealed by the dress you wear, not by your head cover.
Notice also the expression in 2431, "They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary." This expression may sound vague to many because they have not understood the mercy of God.
The word KHAMRA used for intoxicant in Arabic has the same root with Khimar, because both covers. How does this root make a difference? Also, I believe somewhere there is another article that talks about the things that should be covered are the private parts and he definition of private parts in arabic showed that it was things that had openings and closings then went on to show how it said except those that protrude should not be covered which alter went on to show that the things that protrude are on the head, does anyone recall ever reading that article I cant seem to recall where I read it. But anyways it was highly insightful and full of good information. Showing that the things that had openings like the buttocks, vaginal area, under the arms etc should be covered but not those that protrude such as the nose eyes ears head etc.....
Can someone recall this article? or has the information I am referring to?
Appreciate it!
YTV
Peace.
From my understanding, marrying more than one wife is in the context that it is for the intention of taking care of the orphans. If someone marries a second or third or fourth wife and they do not have children I do not see the justification or if they marry someone with children and the children have living fathers... I do not see the quranic justification.
God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and mary and jenny and stacy.
YTV
Allahu Ellem
Where is the quranic justification to marry more than one wife if the wife doesn't have kids, or the wives kids have a living father?
Peace.
I do not feel that answer effectively answered my question. Can you please provide some linguistic terminology that supports your claim that
"headscarf is obligatory"?
YTV
Peace.
My question for Wakas Have you read Layth's new article on Salat?
If so, how does your view differ from his?
What parts if any do you think are missing from Layth's article?
My question for Layth Have you read Wakas' article on Salat?
If so, how does your view differ from his?
What parts if any do you think are missing from Wakas' article?
Thoughts......
I have read both articles and I am wondering.....what is the real difference between the two thoughts processes?
I understand from Wakas' article that salat is not prayer, but I also understand from Layth's article what salat is... and how to... on a practical basis...implement that in my life.
But is there someway that we can combine both articles to give a more clear picture? Is there someway we can come together as brothers and sisters in the deen? We need to unite...I am asking in the name of God, The Almighty, The Merciful...for uniting on the parts of Layth and Wakas in regards to the salat issue, and come up with a unified article on the issue.
Wakas tells you what Salat isn't and Layth tells you what Salat is...why couldn't we combine them and perhaps expand on it, and maybe come up with a unifed article that could be produced, God willing, down the road... as a small salat leaflet or booklet?
I have the technological ability and software needed to be involved in that if needed. I am also willing to contribute financially if need be as much as I can afford, God willing.
I have been here under many names for the past three years or more, and have gone through the learning process with both brothers, and now is the time I stand up and say we need to unite our understanding of salat. I feel we are so close, yet we need some sort of document that is the standard. I will not accept the comments that drag the process down. We WILL God willing, have a central unified understanding on salat, God willing. Then this when done needs to be the only article on the article section and if people want to debate it or come up with other ideas that is why we have the forum section where people could debate it. Make sense?
Please comment.
YTV
P.S. I love you ALL....for the sake of God and whatever it is you need feel free to ask anytime..and God willing whatever I can contribute I will, God willing.
YTV
Peace.
How many other times is this word or variation of this word used?
If we go with IQO and say it means headscarf, then where do we get the justification that it means also cover the chest with the headscarf or does the verse imply that the headscarf is now to be used over the chest? Or does it say take your headscarf and also cover the chest with it? or does it simply say now take your headcover and cover the chest?
Knowing which Arabic words are used would be highly beneficial, since if it says take the headcover and cover your chest this implies that way they used the cover was wrong and they should now place it over there chests and not on the head.
But if it says take your headscarf and ALSO cover the chest then this would imply ??? that they covered both. even if they said also cover the chest does that somehow imply we are supposed to cover our head? Where is the clear command to cover the head? how can we imply? from my understanding when God gives orders it is direct. like do not eat the flesh or blood of pig. It is clearly stated it isn't something that is implied, correct? Why would commandments be ambiguous? and who was this verse talking about..tell your women...what women? wives? believers? all women? who?
YTV
Salaams Wakas,
You asked one basic question. "Where does it say that "khumur" means "headscarves".
Don't confuse me not giving a response to each line you wrote as not being able to answer the ONLY one question that you asked during that post. It just wasn't necessary since the answer is so obvious...but to help you
Khimaar means headscarf. Khumur is the plural of khimaar, which by the definition of PLURAL means that it means "headscarves". This is not rocket science.
If you want to claim that Khumur is also the plural of another word, whatever the case...you CAN NOT say that it is not the plural of khimaar, which means headscarf; therefore headscarves.
Peace.
Okay..if there are two different meanings for a word, which one makes more sense in its usage? If we have one meaning headscarf and one meaning any covering, if we take IQO and we say we will use the headscarf definition and the word is the plural, how is it logical for women to take their headscarves plural and cover their chest? why would a woman wear more than one headscarf at a time? Is that really logical?
YTV
So as I said before, the rest of what you said was meaningless jiborish.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
peace
umm... about this associating partners with Allah, they guy says that associating partners with Allah means that if a person believes that the created object has the power to benefit or harm him/her.
but wait a minute, does that mean we're all commoting shirk all the time when, lets say, eating food, putting on clothes, showering... ? because we all think those things benefit us, right?
or am i commoting shirk when i think to myself' hmm, i'm hungry and eating this food would sure benefit me, i wouldn't be hungry anymore', is that shirk, does that mean that i'm associating food as a partner to God?
Peace.
This is a very good question and one I have been debating myself actually. I will attempt to answer using my logic and understanding.
When a person eats food...this is a created object.
The food is created.
The food does not actually have the power to benefit us, what has the power is God allowing this food to benefit us.
So if I think that the power of the benefit is from the food. Then I am negating that God has all power, right?
So I guess it is in your intention and how you think.
I know that the food can not benefit me unless God wills.
For example if I have diarrhea and the food is excreted before the benefit is given to my body, thus highlighting the food has no benefit, but the benefit of the food only comes with God's will.
If that makes sense.
I could plug vomit instead of diarrhea and the same applies.
Hope that isn't too graphic or disgusting.
YTV
Peace.
I appreciate your response to my question. AHA ( a light bulb went on! lol) I completely see what you are talking about, so thus carry it to the next step and show how this definition is used in the verse in question, and how can we deduce its' meaning.
YTV
P.S. Samia...I do not mean to cause you hardship by this request, I just appreciate the support of the beleivers in assisting in this issue, due to the fact of my lack of knowledge in the arabic language.
Thank God the Lord of all the Worlds for having believers around who are willing to assist and suppport others.
Peace.
I did not find the root you listed. Please can someone give me the correct root or copy and paste the information since I can not seem it find it.
YTV
Peace.
Pornography would I belive fall under the category of lowering ones eyes, and the command that the private parts be covered. So, on this logic we can assume the following
If God said to lower the eyes even when the private parts are covered.
What do you think about if they are uncovered?
seems pretty clear.
Perhaps the better question to ask is
Is masterbation forbidden (as a way to regulate ones sexual desires), as long as there is no other commandments being broken?
I am not sure if they have a masterbation thread anywhere else?
YTv
Salaam
about envy. I see a dude bought a PSP, i envy him because he has one and i want one but i can't get one. It does not mean i will go and destroy his PSP. Right? ???
Peace..
Doesn't God say that we should not envy those that given more than us to test them?
Why would you envy their test?
YTV
Peace.
As I said before I would try to get the video about code 19 in quran and creation.
So here it goes. which by the way is made by a SUNNI. Interestng indeed.
Here is the link God willing it will work.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=neQMzSCvP_4
YTV
Peace.
If anyone can please post God willing the answer to my question previously stated and listed below, this would be beneficial... God willing.
"almaheedi" what does this mean exactly? menstruation or any type of female bleeding? I think to define this would be more beneficial to the understanding.
I see this has been translated as menstruation, but does it refer only to monthly menstruation or does it refer to any type of physical blood?
Clarification and evidence would be beneficial, God willing.
line of thinking associated with this
If it is referring to blood coming specifically from the vaginal area? then this would make sense as being menstrual and post delivery, BUT if it is referring only to menstrual blood from females this would mean something different thus creating a perplexing dilemma....it just wouldn't seem logical that menstrual blood is unpure... BUT the post delivery blood is pure. This wouldn't seem logical, now would it?
So if someone can give the meaning of the arabic term used please.
YTV