General Issues / Questions

when i was growing up, i didn't quite understand why when we had male visitors, my female relatives would go to another room and talk to the male visitors with the walls separating them. when we rode in cars, their was a screen separating the front where the driver/guys sat and the back. that's just how things were. it was a form of 'respect' and 'protection' for women. the principles of the story have been more oppressive. personally, i don't see how the story about the wives of the prophet are relevant to me in my life.

Salaam everyone Just a couple of points i just wanted to leave before i go to sleep. There are too many homosexuals saying they can't help it. Studies have tried to change homosexuals but have just failed. The Quran does not explcitly forbid One man from loving another man (the last time i checked) People who compare the "crime" of homosexuality with crimes such as peadophilia, rape and murder, are Just silly. Rape and murder bring unhappiness upon other people, whereas homosexuality does not affect anyone. (please note, a man raping another man is not homosexuality, it is Rape.)

Another reason it probably shouldn't be understood as a metaphor is 279-12. There was only Moses and God and nobody to "debate" and no reason why Moses would run away in fear of "his argument". "O Moses, it is I God, the Noble, the Wise, and throw down your staff." So when he saw it vibrate as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and did not turn back. "O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me, except one who transgresses, but then he replaces the evil deed with good, then I am Forgiving, Merciful, and place your hand into your pocket; it will come out white with no blemish, one of nine signs to Pharaoh and his people." (279-12)

None of my posts have been deleted. Why would they be? I am simply using the Quran to support my view without insults and what not while fox's last post, especially, was just a juvenile rant of petty insults. No harm done to me of course. That stuff doesn't bother me but maybe he calmed down and thought better of himself and deleted it himself or maybe one of the mods removed it for obvious reasons. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. From the forum rules; 2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member. 3] Respect other users of the forum. Language and/or material of vulgarity, obscenity, harassment, profanity or insulting nature, whether it is direct or suggested, will NOT be tolerated. Any messages containing such language or material will be moved to the trash section or deleted, without notice and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the offending member. There was aheated two posts between you and him that has been deleted. It was right after my post about the Trinity doctrine. Both posts has been deleted. It was a heated. Anyways I think its important that we define what a Koranist is depending on how the adherents of the Koran understand it and not what we think it should be.

Sow what did Noah do? He didn't offer salat? All humans have a form of salat. http//www.howtopracticezen.com/prostrated_monk.jpg http//cdn6.wn.com/pd/e4/89/1fa2eada4b2887c400288c57db54_grande.jpg http//www.indianetzone.com/photos_gallery/44/Sashtanga_17470.jpg http//wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1788/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1788-1584.jpg http//farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4490103713_d8bf1dddf8.jpg http//media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/100115/GAL-10Jan15-3562/media/PHO-10Jan15-199034.jpgimg]http//www.beliefnet.com/~/media/01C8442413F84D1C81AD5A4B27DF5586.ashx?w=400&h=300 https//www.wagner.edu/news/sites/wagner.edu.news/files/101013%20Ganesh%20image%20installed%20in%20Kairos%20House%20chapel.jpg http//www.bible-history.com/ibh/Babylonian+Gods/Sun+God/Worship+of+the+Babylon+Sun+God http//www.beliefnet.com/~/media/01C8442413F84D1C81AD5A4B27DF5586.ashx?w=400&h=300 http//static7.businessinsider.com/image/4c8a724f7f8b9a0435180600-400-300/people-have-literally-worshiped-gold.jpg Please post photos that are actually relevant to salat next time.

Yes, ironically they can be very useful in pointing out the fallacy of hadith etc... but they remain on a level of a 'worldly scholar', so they will only be useful to a certain extent. Their stance on the existence of a creator also results in heavy bias, and mostly it seems, they try to show and prove that there is nothing divine behind the existence of the quran. This is the underlying theme, although it might disguise itself as objective research... but the foundation is not objective... and cannot be since you cannot prove or disprove the creator in the scientific sense of 'proof'. It is all about faith... although atheists would vehemently deny this. They say they would (as people with sound rational minds) believe if they would have been presented with proof, but if they cannot believe after contemplating the world and universe, then no proof in the world will be enough. It is this very crucial dichotomy of creator vs no creator, that is the foundation of the whole reasoning of the source of biblical stories and characters in the quran. If they assume there is no divine informant, of course the info on biblical characters etc must have been borrowed from other religions... how else would it have ended up in the quran? Without the creator who knows all, without and beyond religions, this is the logical conclusion, understandably. Even christians reason this way. They don't believe in the quran strictly due to emotional ego issues and ignorance, and therefore, like atheists, dismiss the quran as a man-made text... even though they claim to believe in a creator. How ironic. So much for objectivity. But seen from another angle, one cannot blame them either, when seeing what the sunnis and shias have turned islam into. I would not be impressed by stoning and hand-cutting either. But the problem is that people always tend to go to one extreme or the other. And frankly speaking, it all starts with your relationship with the creator and truth. If you sincerely want to know the truth, no matter what it is, then you will be guided to it. Persist and you will ascend to better and better understanding. But it seems the vaaaast majority of people believe they have found it, and therefore there is no need for continued search. This, in reality, leads to stagnation and in a way spiritual and intellectual death. Death is when the is no growth. But then again we have things like the 5 namazes that most likely indeed are taken from zoroastrians... so it becomes mixed up. Outsiders, that is people who research the history of islam and quran without believing in its divine dimension, will not see the distinction very clearly between original message and added fabrications. It seems they generally takes islam as one thing and then research it. If they don't believe in the divinity of the quran, they have no reason to work hard to purify the understanding of the quran and see what the text actually says, and thereby being able to see what things are actually not islam. They just see islam as a phenomenon/religion like any other object of study. It's funny to see how people either take the quran as a historical, man-made text, or they start growing beards and other sect-like attributes.

I guess faith is also about accepting the limitations of our predicament on Earth... unlike religion which seeks to give answers and structure to everything... Correct... All souls at the beginning are muslims.. all babies are muslims... They know nothing of religions They never heard of Allah, YHVH, God, Bog, Brahman.. They don't understand any language.. let alone read the Quran or Bible.. They know nothing except their Rabb.. They're all muslims.. "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children." -- Matt 1914 sometimes my thoughts are why do we cling to things if we are aware that we will not keep them with us when we move on? the Egyptian Rulers used to have their precious belongings buried with them - we are all insecure - accepting this and declaring it is a significant advancement in wisdom... "The fear of a loss is a path to the dark side" -- Master Yoda and Allah says ... My commandments are a protection to the Faithful, for Mankind has been made weak... See above... Salam / Peace

I guess the best is when you do good deed just because you know it is the right thing, or best thing, to do. And when you know it is the right thing to do, and you do it, without expecting anything back, when you do it purely for the good of it, unconditionally, when you help, spread goodness, you consequently feel very good in yourself, and so receive it back. yes

Thanks for sharing, I knew about this from T.V Personally, about 3 times, when i saw a full orange moon, i went back home a couple of days later... I hope this one isn't a full orange moon.

Following is the answer I got from somewhere else. I pasted it and here it is. So what do you think of the following answer to the same question? The Prophet of Allah taught us about Shirk, however he warned us to stay away from it. Does this mean that the Prophet promoted Shirk? No! We seek refuge in Allah from this. These 2 Angels (Harut and Marut) taught about magic but clearly stated "We are a test for you, so do not disbelieve in Allah", meaning, do not practice this magic because it will cause you to disbelieve in Allah. The reality is that they taught about magic so the people could be aware of it and avoid it. In the same way today shuyukh need to clarify what magic is so people do not fall into it. For example they will tell you about writing on amulets, causing Jinn possesion etc. so that we know what it is we are to stay away from. At the time of Prophet Sulayman people were using magic, and you could imagine like today they claimed it was not magic but only trickery, or even c;aiming it is from Islam. The Angels came and taught what magic was so the people could clearly know what is Kufr. Like at the time of Musa the magicians claimed to have magical powers, and then Musa came and showed his miracles which caused them to realise he is a Prophet of Allah and his miracles are from Allah. So too Sulayman was granted miracles by Allah however these were NOT magic, rather they were miracles from the Almighty. One of these miracles and blessings was that Sulayman was granted a kingdom like no other, he had control/use of the Jinn as well as humans. Normally Muslim Jinn are commanded not to have contact with humans, however in the time of Sulayman they were allowed to assist him. Magic is when someone uses the shayateen (non-Muslim Jinn) to assist them by means of Sihr. Sulayman did not use Sihr, rather Allah commanded the Jinn to assist him. Normally for a Shaytan to assist someone they will ask them to commit kufr (eg. worship an idol or disrespect a book of Allah) however Sulayman did NOT do any of these, he did not commit kufr as Allah says, rather he received this blessing of a kingdom like no other human from Allah. In terms of teaching magic so people may use it, this is Haram. However informing people of what magic is to allow them to recognise it and stay away is permissible. Further to this, the shari'ah of the Angels is not like the Shari'ah for mankind. What is Haram for us can be halal for them if Allah grants it, so even the teaching of magic may be Halal for them whilst it may be Haram for us. However it must be emphasised, they said "We are a test (fitnah) so do not disbelieve!" As with anything in life it is a test. Money is a test, it can be used for good or bad. Knoweldge is a test, it can be used for us or against us depending on how we use it. The knowledge given to Prophet Sulayman was a test and he did NOT disbelieve, meaning he did not use this knowledge to commit kufr at all. A careful reading of scriptures though tells us that the world of jinns and angels are from another dimension or what scientist call parallel universe. So we can only know a very small aspect of it. Looking at some of Solomon's legends and stories we can see its a very complex world. The Koran tells us that the devils can see us from an angle where we can not see them. Like the day of judgement it can only be imagined. Some Quranic interpreters distinguished between "ma yudreeka" and " ma adraka". The Quran uses "ma adraka" meaning what will make you know, when discussing metaphysical issues like judgement day. Things we can never know. While it uses "ma yudreka" meaning the same thing but on issues we can come to know in this life. Like the story in the Koran of the blind man who the prophet turned away from, it uses wa ma adraka when talking about the blind man's guidance. We can know from the future or in time whether a person will come to God's way, but we can never know what the day of judgement day is unless we see it in the after life. And what can make you know what is the Striking Calamity? And what would give you any clue as to what the deafening loud calamity is? Here it uses ma adraka when talking about a day of judgement description, here uses the analogy of a loud colliding noice that startles.

Again, thanks for sharing, before the meaning was kind of controversial as both terms were referring to maybe the outside universe Two other points are the universe/sky of THIS world is anointed with the beauty of the planets as per 376 *There would be also 7 layers of earth as per 6512 Thus would it not be 7 layers of atmosphere 7 layers of Earth 7 layers of sky/universes

Salaam Bender I was not sure whether the your post was for me, Abdul-Hadi or both of us, so I thought I would reply to your post. Those verses you posted are proving the points I made to Abdul-Hadi that GOD is a just GOD when I said, "So why then would a just GOD (which GOD is )....", when I said that I agreed with the verse 6164 and also the questions I asked him about why would GOD kill a whole city of people all because of a few "male rapists" It was to say no to him talking about "male rape" as the reason why GOD destroyed the city and not to say that GOD punishes everyone for what some do. Other than that your post was very good. (If your post was not for me than I apologise.) Salaam George, It was actually for both. But I believe (after reading this) that I misunderstood you ) Salaam, Bender

Freedom will never be compromised and that is our biggest weapon. We have freedom while they don't. And if many here differ in their interpretation that is because of the enormous freedom this persuasion has. No matter what they say, its always always always better to have too much freedom than no freedom. That is why the future is ours. Wow! this speech rings bell any one for a guess? -X

Peace be with you as well i think believing is believing in God Almighty Angels Scriptures etc Thus if you would disbelieve in them, you might be deemed an unbeliever

Thank you guys for your input.Mr Taqi usmanis book The Authority of the sunnah is a hugely popular and authoritative book in sunni forums.It builds up its arguements from selected verses of the quran(rarely,if ever quoting from the hadith) in a legalistic and for the unwary,in a rather effective manner. I feel that an article should be written by the seniors in which a point by point rejoinder is given for the points raised in the entire book. Iwill give one example of his intelligent arguementation.We tell the hadithists that Atiur Rasool has to be from the quran since there are instances where the messenger received reprimands from Allah tala and that is proof that he cannot be followed in any personal capacity.He has written that the messenger is under watchfull guidance of Almighty God at all times.Any slight error will invite correction.Since God has commented and (corrected) his behavior a few times it follows that the rest of the aspects of the prophets life has divine approval(since he is closely watched) and so no distinction can be made between his quranic life and private life.A very powerfull arguement indeed. Yeah.. as 'powerful' as the argument of Jewish Rabbis.. which employ the same scheme... The refutation is simple.. let's follow their 'argument' for the time being... If that's the case why not the Sunnis follow the Mishna and Jewish Oral Law?? (Although they do and they just don't realize it) Given the same logic can be applied to Moses.. I've tried, and some of them came back with the argumentation of "Muhammad has abrogated the law of Moses with newer / latest version or patch to Moses Commandment". Which is a ripoff from the 'christians' argument.... And I ask again where's the "Muhammad has abrogated the law of Moses with newer / latest version or patch to Moses Commandment" can be found in the Quran ??? If they want to follow the logic of X, they need to stay consistent...... Another variant of refutation is perhaps Recommending them to put all of Muhammad "Rulings" (read Hadiths) and the Quran inside one bundle of book. And declare to their follower they need to follow all of the things contained in this bundle otherwise they shall be condemned to hell for all eternity.. Which they didn't do either, up until now... Salam / Peace

I say no. It's worshipping God regardless and there is no harm in doing it the traditional style either. I do it shia style even though I know the extras aren't needed.

Also ExplorerSeeker86, sorry to have derailed the topic like this. Just to wrap up the topic of yours I guess We have free will and free choice at 100% as we can choose how bad or good we get and what things we want to do and enjoy in life but regardless of the fact our destiny is either heaven or hell. God could see the future as he is beyond time itself (which is a christian concept itself as well I believe) but doesn't control us as he has stated we are free to choose and do what we wish and would contradict Gods justice and mercy. He guides us here and there especially when asking for help, but he doesn't take over our bodies and moves us to do actions.

Greetings and Peace, all group The contents of this link may be germane to the topic at hand http//www.islam101.com/religions/TenCommandments/tcQuran.htm peace ~Abdul-Hadi

I'll quote this essay from servantofthelight website Written by Abdun Nur J. The lie, an outside force. A being who?s consciousness is all pervasive, it interferes within the lives of all humans and is the root cause of all woes. A powerful beast filled with malevolence, hate, debasement and cruelty, crushing free will and dominating the willing, called many things, viewed as a personification, Satan, the Devil, Beelzebub, Iblis, etc. this is the Christianised view held as true by so many across the world, promoted by the media and held with a far stronger belief than any concept of the truth of Allah. Do not believe in Iblis, Allah tells you. Why would Allah tell you this? The ignorant will tell you he means do not worship Iblis as your God, and so do not believe what he tells you, or some such non-sense. The truth is Iblis is your base desire, you feel thirsty, hungry, this is a base desire, the need to quench your thirst or satisfy your hunger, and no matter your course, ultimately you will have to bow to these desires, or perish. You feel sexual attraction to your partner or the opposite sex in general, this is a base desire, no matter your course, ultimately you will have to bow to your desires, or become sick. You feel fear at the risk of your life, this fear is a base desire, you will bow to this base desire, or you will face death bravely. You feel hate for your enemy, this hate is a base desire, you will bow to your desire, or you will rise above your hate. It is possible to conquer Iblis on many fronts but not on every front, therefore you can never conquer Iblis, and so Iblis will never bow to the will of the family of Adam. You should not believe in Iblis as a personification, as that Iblis is a fiction, a Christianisation of the concept, this is the belief Allah refers to, do not believe in the personification of Iblis. The base is the point you start and build upon, as we are nothing but emotional energy, so we can if we chose, exist purely in base emotional energy, engulfed in the basest of thoughts, feelings and actions; obsessed with personal sexual gratification; or the pointless accumulation of personal wealth; or the attainment of power and control over our fellow human beings for your own personal dominance, it can manifest in many ways. The truth. Iblis is a pervasive force it is integral and essential for every human being, it is the root cause of all woes in the world, it is malevolent, vindictive, hate filled, grows strong and powerful through self debasement, cruelty, fear, it dominates the free will of any who remain wilfully ignorant, a person who refuses truth (non-believer in truth). Its only power beyond any you imbibe within yourself is through the results of the actions you commit. If you devolve into Iblis it is the removal of free will, as it is a driving force of instinctive lusts, free will is derived from the elevation of your emotional state which creates choice and so free will, it is still your will, but shackled to your overwhelming lusts. Islam is based on the values and development of the emotional energies within your essence, it is not a system that is based on change happening externally, it is totally focused on internal change, this is a foundation of Islam.

Not 100% sure if it was actually said by him because I could only find one source but it does make you think overall so I thought I would share... "I went to the West and saw Islam, but no Muslims; I got back to the East and saw Muslims, but not Islam." -Muhammad Abduh Now I am not trying to criticize anyone or anything. I think it is just a good reminder for all of us. We may call ourselves Muslims but are we truly practicing Islam? Just something to think about... Whether it was said by him or not, it is a great quote. Many people tend to forget that one becomes "muslim" through his actions and not by simply stating it.