General Issues / Questions

Peace be upon you all, Yes, this is the same conclusion I think we all must come to at some point. This is why I stopped using arabic terms a long time ago (since we are all conversating in english). I greet with "Peace be upon you" because that is what I want to convey. I want you to achieve a state where all of your responses to life's events are peaceful, not stressful. People where I am from say "salaamu alaikum" in a way as if it is some slang word....they would be embarrassed to say "Peace be upon you" because they wouldn't sound "cool". Also, be mindful of capitalizing these words as well. One is a person of peace(muslim) by actions, not chosen title. Brother Ayman wrote a good article many years ago that would be good to share now if anyone has he link Peace

Are you hapy with the idea of having freedom of choice? If you do not have problem with the IF statement above, then can you suggest an alternative method that would not run into theodicy problem? Peace, Edip Hi Edip, In response Sometimes. Sometimes the idea of God giving us free will feels like giving a loaded weapon to a two-year old. ( I understand the trade-off between free will and forced conformity to God's will, and I would much rather have the choice to do right, but the issues created by this are a hard struggle for all of us, I think. But maybe that existential struggle is part of God's plan. The few people I've met in my life that I would consider to be ontologically evil have no such struggle at all. They suffer no internal conflicts, they do not anguish over the moral choices of themselves or others. I do not believe there is a way to test humans without giving them the choice to do evil. But why must innocents suffer because of this? Then these innocents begin life almost completely hard-wired for bad choices and a rejection of faith? As a side note, the only question I struggle to comprehend is why create anything in the first place. I have pondered on this question for years. The best way I can begin to understand it is to ponder over why, for example, a sculptor creates a sculpture. To me, it is done, to express one's inner being. When I look at the universe and ponder over it, I cannot help but think God is expressing His attributes through His creation (the universe), or at least partially so, and it is only those who "connect the dots", so to speak, and recognise this, and thus give over or make peace and become in harmony with it are the ones who will return to the source. Wakas, That, my friend, is the ten million dollar question, and your answer certainly is reasonable. I struggle with what to do about those who are preconditioned to not see God in the universe due to abuse/neglect, etc. ( Thanks guys, Joel

Is Ramadhan supposed to change every year? I have noticed each year it moves forward. one time was in the winter than it fell in the spring, than these past 2 years its been in the summer.. Quiet confusing. Is ramadhan supposed to move based on the moon? Or is it a fixed month that does not alternate? Im wondering if the changing by days weeks or month each year is supposed to happen or if this is hadith. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602533.msg280391#msg280391 Peace, Khalil

A society inflicted with superstitions, misigony, intolerence, bigotry, will not benefit much from charity or other good deeds. Good quote.. Bey Edip... and it's very true... Individual freedom to choose, critical thinking, standing for justice, and tolerance are necessary components of a good society. Thus, discussing principles and issues is crucial to attain such a society. Individual freedom, critical thinking, tolerance and justice.. Myriad of dictators and oppressors always have suppressed those throughout the history.. I do not think that it is the lack of charitable people in Pakistan, Iran or Saudi Arabia that has doomed those countries to backwardness and misery. Perhaps there are more charitable and nice people in those countries than in Switzerland or Holland. Again very true.. I'm starting to build a hypothesis that 'sectarianism' / 'religion' functioned the same way as 'political party' in today's world. Or in other words; religion/sect IS the political party of the ancient world. There are lot of similarities between those two, some of those are Convertion ritual (from one party/religion to another) Punishment for abandoning the party / religion (murtad, apostate, act of disloyalty) Competition to attain masses (convertion) as thus every religion tried very hard to prove that they are better than the other competing religions. Hatred and dissent towards members of other parties / religions. (Sunni vs Shiites, Sunni vs Judaism, Sunni vs Christianity, Democrats vs Republics) Mass hypnotizing through repetitive propaganda. (that's why critical thinking need to be oppressed as it stands against the objective of propaganda) The existence of "Single Religion Country" which in many ways bears many resemblance with "Single Political Party Country" as we know today (i.e. compare China, Soviet Union with Saudi Arabia). The 'authorized sect/religion/political party' shall try to demonize, oppress their competitors and/or eliminate them in entirely. Salam / Peace

Inshallah by the end of this year. The producing team is meticulous. I hope they will come up with a few good videos. Peace, Edip

The sopposed fact that the book Moby Dick is structured and can be altered to fit the 19 code shows its baseless numerology. Unless of course God revealed moby dick lol. Which would be silly. Regardless as an earlier poster noted whether it be true or not it has no essential base for a believer. I dont need numbers to believe in the Quran, and applying reason and logic, you can understand and see the valifity and truth to the Quran. whether it is structured mathematically or not Allah knows, as I am horrible in math and would never want to rely on another to explain that to me. So w.e the case Quran is perfect, and if someone needs a number to believe its message. They are deluded. Peace be unto you all

Salam, I am totally left confused due to so many different interpretations. I do not eat of anything on which the name of Allah was not mentioned that is before they were killed and at the time I am eating it). For me, the matter of halal/haram meat goes much more deeper. I personally dont like many methods of killing the animal that are practiced in the industry. If I eat randomly from any store in town, I wouldnt know the source of the meat, hence the way the animal is likely to be treated till death. This is the reason I stick to some suppliers with certain certificates for animal welfare and traditional mentioning of Allah's name. This is the least I can do from my part to not support insane amount of animal cruelty. The rest I leave upto Allah. As for the interpretation of the verses in a way to adapt to mentioning Allah's name just at the point of eating it, I am having serious problems. Pray for me, that Allah shows me the right way, if He wills, non can misguide me PEACE ----------------- Student of Allah

Peace, Ilyusha ! I shall check these books out, thank you. Do either have an index of sorts for locating ayahs regarding specific topics? Also, I have respect for Yuksel's extensive knowledge, but do not agree with the Code 19 belief. Is there any notable influence of it in his translation? Peace. Peace Eikonoklastes, The Natural Republic is downloadable on this site, I don't remember about the Index as I saw it some time ago. Yuksel's translation has a comprehensive index at the end, and cross references are generously provided in the footnotes for not only other verses of related topics but also from the Bible !! It makes research more interesting and convenient, alhamdolillah. The references to 19 are there at few places in the notes, but not too prominent. Otherwise it is an objective and very analytical work, and the only thing it seems influenced by is "monotheism" !! -)

Peace, lol Reading my earlier post, I realized that I wasn't particularly clear in expressing my point. My intention was to indicate being able to meet a potential spouse from any other faith, and being able to convince them of Quran-alone, ie. converting them. ) Once they are a Quran-alone Muslim, then you would marry them and live a prosperous life together, God willing. ) May peace be with you. Peace. ) It's all good. Do not worry. I understood what you meant by it before. But, that is not my thing though, it would take lots of work to do that (lol)! Allah is indeed the Guider over people. May Peace be with You too.

Greetings and Peace, all group Can't say that I'm experienced (yet, ISA)...but I did want to share one thing. 4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to GOD, and does good works, and says I am one of those who have submitted. May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers. /Happy Ramadan! peace ~Abdul-Hadi

Well obviously your mind is set in your beliefs. Insha'Allah. ) "Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord, and follow no friends other than He; little do you remember." Surah 73

Peace Verse 381 is a verse that is often wrongly interpreted by the acceptors of extra messengers. Verse 381 - And when God accepted the covenant of the prophets, verily the scripture and the wisdom which I have given you, hereafter shall a messenger come to you, confirming the truth of that which is with you, you shall surely believe in him, and you shall assist him. He said, are you firmly resolved, and do you accept My covenant on this? They answered, we are firmly resolved. He said, be therefore witnesses; and I also bear witness with you. - This verse states that God made a covenant with the prophets and that these prophets had to believe in and to support a messenger who would confirm their scriptures. Some people say that the discoverer of code 19 is predicted by verse 381. This is a wrong vision, since code 19 refers only to the Koran. Over it (allegorically this can refer to the Koran) is nineteen according to an interpretation of verse 7430, not over them. Code 19 did not confirm the scriptures of the several prophets in any way as referred to in verse 381. There is no evidence that the discoverer of code 19 did confirm for instance the prophet Solomon. So the claim of being the confirmer of the prophets can not be true. Furthermore the Koran does not suggest anywhere that code 19 is a confirmation of its Godly origin. According to a possible interpretation of verse 7431 code 19 is there to test, convince and strengthen different groups of people in the faith or absence of it, this is different from confirming the Koran. The proof of the Divine origin according to the Koran is the absence of contradictions - verse 482. Verses 981-3 relate also to the Koran as a clear evidence itself. According to verses 384, 241, 291, 297 amongst others, the Koran is a confirmation of the previous prophetic scriptures. But the prophet-messenger Mohammad himself is not the confirming messenger of verse 381. This is because it would be unexplainable how the prophets could believe in and support the prophet-messenger Mohammad, while they were not on earth at the same time with him. Since the departed souls including the prophets are behind a -barzakh-, according to verse 2399-100, nobody including the prophets could believe in and support a messenger while being behind this barrier. The Koran has no contradictions, verse 482. The following explanation of verse 381 has no contradictions at all. The messenger of the covenant is the messenger Gabriel. Verse 297 - Say, anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Koran) into your heart, in accordance with God's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers. - The Koran and the other prophetic scriptures were brought to mankind in a special way. The first stage is that the prophets received the scripture in a primal form. The Koran uses the word -inzal- for this downloading-process. Verse 2213 - The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He sent down with them the book ... - The next stage is the transformation of the message into materialized written verses, this is a gradual process that can last a longer period. The Koran uses the word -tanzal- in verse 297, this verse refers to Gabriel as the messenger who is active in this transformation-process. This system of the coming into being of the message in two phases, is fully compatible with the wording of verse 381. The prophets have to promise that they will believe in and support the messenger that will come to them to confirm and transform the message that is already with them. According to verses 26192-193,1917-19 and 297 together, that non-human messenger is the spirit Gabriel. The prophets have an assisting role in this system of transforming the primal message, that is already with them into a definitive message, by accepting the guidance of Gabriel in this process. Truthseeker Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.

In accordance with Kukumber's wishes, reply given here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602536.msg281864#msg281864 I won't be responding further on this thread. Peace.

Which one do you See Hell or Miracle? I personally see miracle... but I definitely do not see a code but pieces of 19-phenomena instead..and this is the real problem. If God's intention is to increase faiths i.e. to prove His existence and the divine origin of Quran (and to give various info such as major distortions in Quran or in salat etc,, as secondary purposes), these pieces of 19-phenomena I witnessed are sufficient..but when it comes to "authenticating the whole Quran" then we need much much more but if you dont agree with me on this code issue, then plz answer the famous question of SEID below Tell us what is nineteen about the shortest chapter 108 and what prevents flipping it with chapter 103? chv ltrs words 1031 6 1 1032 14 4 1033 51 9 1081 15 3 1082 12 3 1083 15 4 ;D ;D ;D ;D yay yay yay

Peace, Bigmo ! Awesome post, thank you, sir. Would you happen to have the ayah on hand in regards to, "We are told to pray for our parents even after they are dead."? That would be great to add to my notes. I'll check to see if I can find it myself in the mean time. ) May peace be with you. Probably the best one I can find is this one 9.83-84 If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind." Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion. This shows that the custom of visiting a grave and praying was done by the prophet. But here the Koran says do not do it for the hypocrites. It never said that the prophet should not do it for any theological reason. Here we see who we pray for matters. 40.7-9. Those who sustain the Throne (of Allah. and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire! "And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom. "And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement". Even the angels pray for others. But for the believers. Not the disbelievers. Also Abraham and Ismael praying for a future generation of people presumable their offsprings 2.127. And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing. "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. "Our Lord! send amongst them an Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise." If you can pray for people who yet exist why can't you pray for people who existed and died? Anyways once a person is created and born he never dies. This was Jesus's answer to the Sadducees who rejected the after life. God is the God of the LIVING Abraham and Moses, Jesus said. Anotherwords, all both these prophets are alive and not dead. They just left this world. Praying for the dead is not disputed here, but ASKING the dead to pray for us is. This is called Tawassul and some have equated with shirk. I do not believe that this is the shirk the Quran is talking about. The Koran is talking about those who ask other DEITIES and gods. Thats is how I define shirk. Also from the Gospel when Jesus attacked the Pharisees Mathew 23.29-30 ?Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ?If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.? 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started! This was confirmed by the Koran which accused the Pharisees of killing the very prophets they claim to honor. Jesus never attacked the acts they were doing but their hypocrisy and mafia character of killing a man and being the first in his funeral with their alligator tears. 2.91. When it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, "they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us" yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say "Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?"

Assalam-o-Alaikum! guys, concerning your discussion on Dr. Shabbir Ahmed. I have also read tons of his books, but if one checks all the references(not like a blind-follower) he has given he will find that only 60-70 percent are true. The others are fake or twisted-translated. Although he uses Quraish Dialect of Arabic to translate Holy Quran (His translation is worth reading) but he also translates other things which are non-Quranic in the same dialect knowingly. The books he refers were not in Quraish dialect. Secondly as we all know that if Quran was any book coming from other than God it had contradictions and error, concerning this I must say that every book in this world has mistakes except Quran. Even if the book is written by Shabbir Ahmed, it will contain errors, even if it is Tafseer ibn-e-Kathir, even if is something written by Razi. The above poem is a spiritual poem and you can find this type of words in Mathnavi also, so it is a way of saints when they are seeing this world and humankind in their spiritual sense, Shabbir's translation is twisted. Regarding all he says in his books I can only say to my brothers that please do not follow ANY one blindly on the basis of references, what Shabbir says has also got truths but they are only two-third, the remaining is false. And our Imams and the others (May Allah bless them) they also did errors but their errors were also One-third of their total work. They quote 10 errors of a person from his 100000 lines then it doesn't mean all lines are false. You should go and start the discussion on Dr. Shabbir's own website so he will be obliged to answer you or otherwise he will delete it. www.ourbeacon.com

Thanks for your reply BA I kind of see now, I had gotten on a one track state of mind. Of course it is more than just a chemical make-up. Of course, environment, past experiences etc play a role. But at the same time, hitting on the environment, we do have an unfair or unjust society (which can lead to a whole debate on how to define justice and fairness). I really don't know where I am going with this, but we definitely as a society marginalize people, and if the people not in the norm or "centre", but in the periphery internalize the marginalization, well then how do we ever solve the problem. And there is not just one aspect that causes the marginalization, there's ethnicity, sex, gender, faith, education level, financial status, marital status, body weight, the way you look, your own perception of how "cool' you are, or how much others will enjoy your company, your past experiences, and how they define the decisions you make today etc etc etc. I remember reading in school about a concept called triple jeopardy, where a person experiences minority stress in three ways, namely sexual orientation, gender, and ethnicity. But really minority stress can be ten fold or more. And if its internalized that's a huge burden to carry. That's a massive burden to overcome if happiness truly is a state of mind. It makes me sad just thinking about it, and makes me wonder if faith and prayer can really break all these barriers. Kukumber

Salam Alaikum everybody and thank you for your time. My Name is Jonas. I'm 26 old and I'm studing politics, history and religion of the Middle East at the university in Copenhagen. This semester i've chosen a course called "Lived Islam" which is a course about different types of Islam. I've long been lurking on your great page here and wanted to make my exam assignment on the Quranist ( to put it under one name). I've read the books by Rashid Khalifa, Edip Yuksel, Kassim Ahmad ect and now I wanted to hear from the believers if you would be so kind answering some short questions about yourself it would be greatly appreciated. Here we go ;D Male/ Female Male Age 16 Nationality British Pakistani Parents background ( if different from nationality) Same Born as a Muslim? ( in a muslim family) Yes, a Sunni Level of education Currently in college Are you from a city or from the country? City How did you first come to learn about Quranism ( for a lack of a better word)? I always wondered about the rules within Sunni Islam and I didn't agree with the majority of them (e.g. stoning adulterers, killing gays, killing apostates). Although I questioned my faith, in the end, I would say that there was knowledge I didn't posses and God knows something that I do not. At the age of 15, I wanted to read an english translation of the Quran so I picked up a copy of Yusuf Ali's translation (because it was popular) and once I got half way through, I was surprised to notice that none of the Sunni rules were mentioned inside. I got to know that these rules are located within Hadith and after studying Hadith, I started finding it hard to believe in them and was relieved to find that there were others that had similar thoughts to me on the net. And at what age? 17 Do you personaly know fellow Quranist or are you alone with your view in your social network? Unfortunately, alone. Do you primarily reject Hadith on the basis of authority or authenticity? Both Thank you for your time.. bravo

Hi ccamurad, Please respond to your other threads in which some replies have been made, and often met with silence from you. This will help us determine if you are a Troll or not. Thanks. Salam Brother, I am trying to understand Quran. But my native language is not Arabic. So I found some wrong translations. I like this forum as all questions are done by Quran. When I do not understand or I have confusion, I try to comment. See the last post... http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602610.0

you are applying logic and reasoning when well faith is not based on that. Salam, My understanding of faith is vastly different from BLIND BELIEF. The reason I feel comfortable lending money to my friends, and they are comfortable lending money to me is not based on BLIND BELIEF, even though non of us can see the future. Faith is the by product of the personal relationship that we shared over time, which strengthens the idea that the money will be returned. Whereas Blind Belief is like going and lending people on the street money and awaiting return of that money. Allah gives you plenty of things to wonder about and then demands faith. Whereas these people ask you to follow them just because this is what they have been taught to do. No place for reason or rational thought, just follow the herd and do not question !! Peace be on you --------------- Student of Allah