General Issues / Questions

I pity your South-Asian stupidity. You might as well argue that Nazi Germany was a blessing for Europe especially given the fact that the other European countries were to poor and backward to contribute anything of value and even America too. To justify Israels existance based on its useless technology(Most of it from scientists that grew up in the West and not in Israel but were brought to Israel due to their right to 'return&#039 is like justifying the crimes of Nazi-Germany letalone its existance based on its own technology. Denmark for example could not contribute anything of value and was backward and too moronic country. Britain? The same garbage. Especially the aftermath of WW2 were almost all Europeans were living on American welfare. The Danish for example enjoyed Nazi occupation more than they enjoyed their own garbage Danish leaders because the Germans brought in technology into the 'country'. You obviously come from a third-world country so I don't think you have the right to justify the ethnic-cleansing by Israel. Indeed- Europeans and South-Asians are very good at justifying the existance of Israel while they come from countries.. well let's not even mention it. Point is? They are hypocritical and can not be taken seriously especially their stupidity regarding the military of Israel. Saudi-Arabia has enough oil to annilihate Israel over and over. Due to your arguments being too primitive for me I have decided not to respond to any of them as they are a waiste of time. I will give you some tips though. Firstly the Arab countries have enough manpower to destroy Israel and one Arab country can already do that. The fact that the Arab countries never won was because of Arab leaders that were trying to overthrow each other as one wanted Republicanism and other wanted monarchy. Tribalism and greed is the main cause of this. If I was the leader of the Arab world I can assure you I'd have done a much better job. No more Islamists/ISIS, no more Zionists and no other religious nutjobs. Only Arab countries for their own citizens regardless of gender, religion and nationality. No more European stupidity either. All contracts with the West would have been cancelled under me while I'd absorb the Arab Americans into my nation. And most importantly religion would not be allowed to take over the constitution of the country. If religious people and Westerners do not like it then they are free to screw off anytime. Nobody cares. Today instead of the billions of dollars flowing to Palestinian, Iraqi and Syrian people it flows to religion, religious ideologies/religious extremism, Europe and South-Asia. I do not deny that jewish people have had a terrible time and history testifies to this... but to go out there and commit the same crimes to another people - knowing their own jewish history - is to me detestable. Not the Jewish people but the European Jews. They were getting killed by their own brethren. Some Jews are Europeans others are Arabs etc. They are not the same. The Arab Jews were very happy to live in the Arab countries infact the Arab Muslims have always been the ones who are liberating Jews(They lifted the bann twice) meanwhile Europeans especially under Christianity were known for slaughtering both Jews and Muslims hence the Crusaders. Some European Jews even collabrated with the Nazis and killed their own European Jewish brethren(See http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CategoryJewish_Nazi_collaborators). Why does no 'civilized' European/Westerner mention that? Too afraid of history? Ahh but let's forget those EUROPEAN Jews, let's blame the Palestinians just because one Palestinian(i.e Haj Amin al-Husseini who probaly did it because of the occupation of Palestine by the British empire- 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' played a huge roll) supported Nazis. One could argue that if Britain never colonized Palestine then some Palestinians wouldn't make deals with Hitler. It's a fact that Britain is the reason to why some Palestinians decided to take help from its enemies as British regime was oppressing Palestinians especially nationalists that wanted independance. The Jews aren't exactly a 'people' they are adherents of Judaism. They don't have a common culture, language and traditions. Some are Europeans others are Arabs and all these people carry the culture of their own homelands. It's European propaganda ment to justify the existance of Israel that Jews are somehow an ethnicity. Jew isn't equivalent to Arab and never will be either. If the jewish people want a jewish state it should not be built on the shattered lives of another people... and i dont know how they can dig themselves out of this one which just adds to the tragedy. If the European Jews want a homeland then they should build it in Europe. My grandfather was a Palestinian Jew(Not a European Immigrant) and I'm sick of these European Jews letalone their 'Muslims' that are equally as moronic. Palestine belongs to all Palestinians regardless of religion. The Palestinian Arabs revolted several times meaning that Palestine was going to become an independant nation but thanks to the European Jewish cannonfodder that was never possible. Palestine was colonized by Britain which forced a mass-Immigration of European Jews into Palestine which it could then use to recruit in its armies to later on send them to Europe against the Nazis to die as cannonfodder or to its own colonies to take down rebellions. The fact that European Jews were slaughtered by their own brethren(Both were EUropeans) should be blamed on the Europeans themselves and the European Jews should have a right to build their own country in Europe. Many Europeans oppose a mass-Immigration from Asia but they enjoy supporting a mass-Immigration of European Jews into Palestine. Their hypocrisy is obvious. They also enjoy justifying existance of Israel and they use the same arguments that can be used for Nazi-Germany's existance. Why am I not suprised? This is what I call European stupidity.

Probably, he won't be alive too long.

Indeed, the word Muhammad means "of goodly posture/caliber. Quran an instruction for a person who understand it is one. It was created to help in preaching and likely for a cleric or other prophet. Its say commands testify on that. It helps to give a reply based on verbal arguments and to explain the dynamics of the realm of GOD. Unfortunately a huge amount of passages in Quran do not really represent what they are in truth meant to say. Salaam

Salaam Hizbullah, I implied that our differences in opinion matters little in a temporary world with temporary lore. Okay. It may matter concerning Quran when it comes to teachings which are inferred and clearly unrighteous, but I do not think you are one of those believing that "disbelievers" should be violently slaughtered. Our input makes a difference on perception, but perception is a contant project for oneself. Hypothetically, if you observe a version of traditional salat whereas it is a falsehood based on forced inference, then it will yet not matter anything in the end. It was your encounters and conduct with other people that mattered. This what is or is not is actually fairly irrelevant. Although if it comes to clearly unrighteous teahings that are forced out of an innocent context then it is more severe. And if I claim that spirituality is the way and one should control the instincts strictly, i.e. avoid worldliness, and this was right, then following what I said would have been an advantage albeit not necessarily mandatory. Personally, I think that Quran falsely teaches people to be worldly in an erroneous interpretation. Salaam

I hate pop but I am sure this song will go on continuesly on judgement day I'm tired of rumors starting I'm sick of being followed I'm tired of people lying Saying what they want about me Why can't they back up off me Why can't they let me live I'm gonna do it my way Take this for just what it is https//youtu.be/ODTRrT-ONxA

Many thanks to all of you who replied to my questions and I can say that it has comforted me to some extent. The fact that am not arabic and rely on translated Quran, is perhaps the cause of my discomfort. In essence, God is talking to Muhammad, the prophet and those strong worded statements were actually his displeasure with only those who after been given and made to understood clear signs of his existence, still chose to deny him. And I must say that some where in those verses, the context must have been those people wo were present during the prophet time and yet opted to deny the prophet and God, else I see no point in sending down the verse which mentions abu lahab by name. So in a way Quranic verses (some of them) do have a clear context with the time it was revealed and with the people living then. To the question of Angles and Jinns, I do understand that God needs a medium to talk to his prophets but then he chose to speak to Moses with no angel in between and then we do not know what kind of talks happened with God and Moses (on the mountains for 40 days) and then between God and Muhammad during Miraj. I think it is not a must that God really needs angel to talk to a human-prophet, or we just cannot create such a rule.. There are people whom God has given wisdom (story of moses and khidir), how did Khidir got enlightenment? But after reading your replies, Angels and Jinns have become a non issue for me, as with the most logical explanation given by Almighty in Quran, yet there are verses which ask believes to believe in Ghaib. I need to know from an arabic person what does Ghaib means? In the opening chapter of Quran we are asked to believe in Ghaib; does this means things which cant be explained by the human logical mind? like angels? I would like to ask a few new questions here. There are many verses ; at least the translated english meaning, where it appears to me that God is saying that He has put people to TEST (different events mentioned throughout Quran) so He will be able to KNOW who is on the right path (or who believes in HIM or not). This gives me an indication that God also do not know the future? else why would he say such a saying? IF GOD is not time bound, then it should be irrelevant for him to have past, present or future and the only explanation is that those verses actually meant for us;humans not to blame the Almighty for punishing us because HE would say that HE puts us to TEST and some have passed and some failed. Again the interpretation may have the fault. Please clarify. Some folks told me that there are certain prophets or wise chosen people from GOD that are still alive today (Khidir is on exception). Is this True? any mentioning of such n example in Quran? Is it possible that God may grant some one his special wish even though he is not a prophet? For example if I pray to be alive until day of Judgement, is this Pray a valid one or its kufr to ask for such a prayer (believe me the background to this pray is not for the love of Dunya). Yes I do believe that every soul has to taste the death but it does not say , that soul will not be transformed or given life again immediately? else why would GOD ask us not to say Dead to those who DIE in his cause? Strange isnt it? Those who die (qatal) not to be called dead? So how are those kept alive? I do not think it is soul because God told us that those folks are given the food .... again the translation may be my issue. Cheers

Both replies to this important question are incorrect. First, as another astute commenter pointed out, the word abouweh does NOT imply man-man parenting (complete with adoption no less), but can apply to either man-man or man-woman. And in this case, clearly and unequivocally refers to the father and mother of the child. The Qur'an does not deal with an important subject such as this by a mere word in an aya whose subject is something else entirely. Plus, the case of the boy whom al-Khidr killed is entirely separate from the case of the two orphans whose wall he reinforced. Nor does the Qur'an ignore this important subject entirely. Instead, let's examine the ayat where this subject is discussed openly and directly. These ayat occur mainly in the case of the people of Lot. The people of Lot, referred to as disbelievers and criminals, were not your "ordinary" homosexuals. Note that this was an entire community of homosexuals. Note the way in which they replied to Lot, who felt under attack by them, "you know what we want." Shockingly, they wanted to take the angels of Allah who had taken the form of men. Those angels were not men, certainly not homosexual men. This means that this was a homosexual cult who most certainly raped and abused innocent men and boys. The extreme punishment fits the oppression and abuse their behavior involved. Note this specific reference in 2928-30 'And Lot, when he said to his people ?You commit a lewdness that no others in the world have done before!? 2929 ?You sexually approach men, and you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society.? But the only response from his people was to say ?Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!? 2930 He said ?My Lord, grant me victory over the wicked people."' You injected 'sexually' into the translation of 2929 please check your sources. Also 'highway robbery' isn't a very good translation of what Quran is describing.

Salamun Alaikum. I have discussed my understanding of riba in detail in other threads. Just to give a summary of how I define riba? per my understanding riba is any form of excess return from any kind of transaction made through exploitation of the vulnerabilities of the counterparty. In other words riba is any excess return above the ?fair? price. Note that this definition DOES NOT restrict riba to lending-borrowing transactions only. However, lending-borrowing transactions quite often give rise to circumstances where a riba can arise. Applying my general definition on a lending-borrowing transaction, riba arises in any kind of interest charged over the principle amount in excess of a fair market rate exploiting the vulnerabilities of the counterparty. Now coming to the topic of this thread, per above definition, peer-to-peer lending by definition is not necessarily riba, but it has a much higher potential for leading to riba simply because it happens outside the supervision of regulatory body. A peer-to-peer transaction will lead to riba when the borrower is in a financially difficulty that (s)he cannot borrow from the official chain and hence the lender is misusing this opportunity to charge him a rate of interest above fair interest rate. The ultimate goal of such lending is usually to grab some property of the borrower (independent of this transaction) which may have been tagged as collateral to lending. 2278 O! Those who have put faith - be conscious of Allah, and leave what remained of riba if you happen to be the faithful! 2279 Then if you don?t - so be called for a war from Allah and His messenger; but if you repent then the capital is for you. Do not wrong and you will not be wronged. 2280 And if it happens to be one in difficulty then postponement until ease. But that you (perform) charity, it is better for you ? if you happen to know. (My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.) So, on the other hand, if the purpose of a p2p lending is to help a person in financial difficulty who cannot borrow from the official chain and hence the lender is simply providing him access to credit at fair interest rate OR subsidized interest rate and is willing to wait for repayment as long as it takes the borrower?s financial condition to improve ? then, rather than giving rise to riba, this transaction will be an act of sadaquah (charity) from the lender. If there is a situation to suspect the borrower to be an intentional defaulter, the lender can claim back the principal amount only, which now may be in the form of some productive resource or asset purchased with the original fund lent. My earlier discussions on riba http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606569.msg350924#msg350924 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606569.msg351778#msg351778 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605358.msg352195#msg352195 May Allah guide us all to the straight route. Regards, Arman

Salaam reel, Probably because the same person with an account on both forums posted here and there. Salaam

Salaam, "These are the people..." refers to the type of character described previously, not that prophethood is limited to them. Prophethood means that one is enlightened about something and has no idolatrous meaning to refer to specifically chosen but it is a condition one obtains through spiritual ascension. And GOD responds to individual prayers of other people as well. Abraham prayed that his progeny would be prophets and he got granted his wish, for as long as they are doers of good. But that does not say there may not be a prophet ascending from elsewhere due to personal development of character. Salaam ARE YOU SAYING YOU ARE A PROPHET??? What are these verses to you??? 0333 - Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds - 1958 - Those were the ones upon whom Allah bestowed favor of the Prophets of the descendants of Adam and of those We carried with Noah, that is, of the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the verses of the Most Merciful were recited to them, they fell in prostration and weeping. 2927 - And We gave to him Isaac and Jacob and placed in his descendants prophethood and scripture. And We gave him his reward in this world, and indeed, he is in the Hereafter among the righteous. 5726 - And We have already sent Noah and Abraham and placed in their descendants prophethood and scripture; and among them is he who is guided, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe? You think your words are more superior than the ALMIGHTY Creator?

Peace, truthseeker11. Thank you and may God grant you a better understanding of Islam and perfect your path in Islam. Peace be on you.

Salaam huruf, That was also my earlier interpretation before I progressed further. But you can be calm that this is also something which can indirectly be implied from the context. The Christian communion is derived from this practice and a musalla is a guiding session as to when a preacher like a cleric such as a priest or imam as it is called in the sect islam helps people on spiritual matters. It is thus not a ritual but more a useful session of gaining inspiration and thus perception which is the innate meaning of the letter called saad . This is why in chapter 38 it begins with the sole letter saad and a conjunction and then continues with al-quraan because it implies that if one is perceptive then Quran will regard them (as to make sense). Salateh is thus the perception you gain from musalla and you are told by Quran to keep that as your intention/qum (&#1605. Quran is a book of spiritual guidance and not a book teaching religion, and it is particularly a guide for a person intending to preach faith. All the 'say' (qul) commands are a testament to that. The one who wrote it intended for it to be a guide on how to be a righteous cleric, who is truly possessing the grace of God. But it is so widespread and easy to access anyone can benefit from it, if they manage to interpret it properly, which the majority of earlier wannabees have failed at, because they did not have a clean heart but a rather tainted one. Bias is bad, especially when you seek to fit it into an innocent text. Salaam

Salam Lena In Quran in many verses God makes it clear that payment of zakat is compulsory. Could you please quote some verses that make payment of zakat compulsory? God also tells us it is to be paid on the day of harvest (i.e. When income is received) I guess if you are referring to 6141 then I do not see the word zakat in this verse. it is to be paid to the parents/relatives, orphans, travelling alien and the poor. If you are referring to 2177 then it says Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but righteousness is one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask , and for freeing slaves; establishes prayer and gives zakah; fulfill their promise when they promise; and are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous. The red part says gives wealth not zakat. The amount is given in sura 2219 they also ask you what to give to charity, say, "the excess". There is no amount given in this verse. It says keep open (spend) whatever can be spared. In Sura 1726-29 God tells us not to be excessive or extravagant. The word used here is tubazzir which gives sense of wasting and not of spending on good cause. Peace

I understand what you are saying Zulf. I think it even gets clearer if you consider not one of us can judge who's with faith at any given point. It's even harder to make this call about ourselves. With an extreme example, people claiming rationally they are atheists could be by their condition of the heart and righteous behaviour be totally with faith. Those certain to be with faith, may be the worst sinners from Gods perspective by acts and condition of the heart. In this logic, having the right condition of the heart does not automatically lead you to Quran. It's not even a necessity to find Quran to achieve this spiritual condition. But for those not in such a blissful state of spirit and heart, there is only one thing to hold onto Quran. To me Quran is still a catalyst and a magnet/shining clear beacon in this dynamic. A catalyst because it will result in contradiction for the reader not being in the right state of heart and expose the lie living in the heart/mind of the reader. A magnet because it can reach even those who are committing the gravest sins. Even those who don't understand arabic and who are not religious can be moved when hearing the verses in Quran recited. I'm one of those who needs the Reminder. I often act fearless and it's a bad way.

I second what MoF said.

iamop I agree with the topic you entered into, but I would not say I agree with every fact given. It does not matter though because overall this is exactly how the realm of Allah works. Good realization there, IAMOP. Quran reinterpreted supports much of the philosophy behind Kundalini. Salaam

Salaam. What is the theological position of Quranists ? Follow only Quran. 6112 - We have permitted the enemies of every prophet?human and jinn devils?to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications. Is Quran created or not ? I would follow what Allah said and that's Quran was "revealed". 456 - These are Gods revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe? 3923 - God has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God?s message. Such is God?s guidance; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God nothing can guide them. How's the attributes of Allah is taken by Quranists ? Is there any 'literalist athari' Quranist ? Or all Quranists are in mu'tazila approach ? What is mean by 'Jahmiyya' denied the names of Allah ? what's the difference between mu'tazila and jahmiyya ? Attributes of Allah? 2435 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly star lit from a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things. All Muslims are free to choose whatever approach they like. I follow none. When I am in doubt I ask members to help me. Which one is the stance of Quranists about a grave sinner ? a) A grave sinner without repentance is kaffir. A person doing a grave sin has no belief in his heart, he should be considered as a kaffir (stance of khawarijs) b) A grave sinner without repentance is in hell forever(same as kaffirs). A person doing a grave sin cannot be considered as a muslim. But he cannot be considered as a kaffir too. So he is in between them, neither muslim nor kaffir. (stance of mutazilas) c) A grave sinner is a sinner but still a muslim. ( stance of murjias) Whoa! Who are we to declare someone's belief? Say I call you kafir. Does that take Allah out of your heart? It is your own duty to declare yourself so. Not ours. I suppose grave sinning to us are killing, torturing, stealing poor people's money, etc. Denying the 'magics' and 'miracles' in Islam and Quran. Some Quranists i know denies all kind of magic stories. They say that all are in allegorical/metaphors. Such as Prophet Musa did not speak with Allah directly, Ibrahim didnt give life back to birds, Jesus has father, Jesus did not speak in craddle, etc etc etc. They deny all 'miraculous' stories. Their main argument is "There is no change in the sunna of Allah". Elephants will not fly, Ice is cold and fire is hot. Fire will not be cold because there is no change in the sunna of Allah. I don't fully deny the miracles and magics, for anything is possible by Allah. The only thing is that back then "scientists" did not have the tools to explain such phenomena. To me, not everything is metaphor and allegorical. Many weird things still happen. Probably, back in the days, they would have been tagged as miracle and magic. Would you believe me if I say that a man ate a plane? It happened. Here are some examples of super humans where he is mentioned. http//www.cracked.com/article_16449_7-people-from-around-world-with-real-mutant-superpowers.html and here are some super human senses http//www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/photos/7-superhuman-senses/what-are-you-capable-of Note It takes a lot of power to see a thing from multi lenses. Some people can do it because of their personality, environment or experiences. But for some others, its a little difficult. Hence not all of us believe in a thing in the same way. Its actually good this way because it gives us a variety of ideas and opinions. This is how rationality works better. Group think is dangerous. But at the end of the day, we all are interested in Allah. By the way, despite calling themselves as fully in flow and organized, both Sunnies and Shias still have many unresolved issues. Examples include hijab, tombs, magic, Night of Qadr, fictional novels, etc. peace

Forgot to say that a prophet is a scholar as well. There is just a difference in what different scholars are teaching. Nonsense/conjecture or enlightening knowledge. Salaam

Salaam, We are not the ones who forcefully apply the laws of Allah as per alQuraan on others. In fact it is of no use because Allah is going to see what is in the hearts. And we should not forget that every individual has to answer for their deeds. Jihad is to fight within oneself not with others. May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr mmKhan

According to the scripture there cannot be a nation as a whole like a "Muslim Nation". The messengers were raised amidst the fallen communities and in the almost spoilt nations with His Signs to guide its people into the straight path as a last opportunity for the people to fall in line with the command of the Almighty. If we are to follow the messengers we shall have to live amidst the evil people to guide them with the God endowed wisdom. We 3/110 have to create an equitable nation around us. While to deliver the justice upon one's own self as muslim is unlawful for Allah guides whom He will, how wrongful it is to pronounce the whole nation as muslim nation? And we are witness to the decimation of all Islamic countries by those whom we pronounce as un Islamic. Salam. Just as a clarification - when I mentioned "Muslims" in my post earlier, I tried to use the quotation mark (" &quot every time. These marks imply "the so called Muslim"... i.e. nations who themselves call them "Muslims". I am aware that the generic term "muslim" as used in Qur'an is not the hallmark for any particular nationality or religious group. May Allah guide us all to the straight route. Regards, Arman