Islamic Constitution

A constitution is a legal document created to control and curb the power of the govern mental State mafia, The State mafia is a corporation created by the landlords to mentally dominate the perceptions of the slaves on the land, hence you have rights and duties, only a slave has rights and is forced to comply to duties. A right is a grant from a master (superior) upon a slave (inferior) and exists at the whim of the granter, all rights are slave law without exception, whether that granted right is from a book of religion or from a State mafia. A constitution is a contract, but only constructed legal fictions can be a party to a contract, which is why you as a living soul must be re-presented when in dispute, the logical fallacy of a straw man is needed to turn a free soul into a slave. As a free soul you are ONLY bound by a written and witnessed agreement you have seal directly, if an owner invents a written agreement that you have not directly sealed with a physical imprint, you are not bound by it.

The Straight Path (Natural Law) leads to Allah/Sunnatullah/Way of Allah/LordLaw of Nature Preservation of Natural Order + Nature is always logical/muhkamat/evidences/no fallacies in everything it does, but some that seem like the Straight Path are misled. If He so wished, He would guide you all. (Q169) Deep issue is a fundamental issue or the ultimate, concrete question that is to be decided in ruling on a point of law or life problems. NO EARTH/ENVIRONMENT = NO LIFE = NO ECONOMY = NO RELIGION = NO YOU = NOTHING https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59178074_2333705296846048_8507329387211784192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=1280275b4983fb52ea7cc7f616df3680&oe=5D314E66 On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (Q5030)

What is Law? Matheism Jurisprudence Law is the conditions of natural harmony for all situations/species. ~ Mahdi Ibrahim • IF Law • THEN Obey • ELSE Disobey (or shirk/mushrik) On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? 5030 (Our LordLaw proves that we are Messengers. 3616 IF you have doubts about what We have sent down to Our slave, produce another sura/"definition of Law" equal to it, and call your witnesses, besides Allah/Sunnatullah/Nature, if you are telling the truth. IF you do not do that - and you will not/never do it - THEN fear the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, made ready for the kafirun. 223-24 What is your definition of Law?

Asmaul husna is the most beautiful names, every Muslim should know and learn the 99 names of Allah and their attributes as they are in Quran and Sunnah. https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL666S6JgTI

Salam everyone. I've just come across TMG Charter and am wondering if it may be a good start in my desire to a) spread proper knowledge re Islam and b) provide a space for believers to fight against the enemies of peace. Please forgive me for lacking knowledge in regard to the true state of existence in countries other than my u.s. of a. I would never want to appear callous or intentionally ignorant. I and many others are much thirsty for knowledge and understanding about how things really are abroad. While I may view my/our situation as terrible, I recognize that things could be much worse elsewhere. Please feel comfortable discussing YOUR reality with me so I might learn. I appreciate your time.

https//3.bp.blogspot.com/-AG8KpN19tAo/V26M2NTtRDI/AAAAAAAAD3k/VBG0J9VMgMQxCYe-DDyOQO_OC32LslUGQCLcB/s1600/onenation.png If the logical deduction is sound, how can one be a Muslim without violating the core principle (true disbelievers, 4.151) of Islam? What is the primary pillars of faith for a true Muslim? The Constitution. 2132 Abraham enjoined his sons and Jacob "O my sons, God has selected the system for you, so do not die except as ones who have submitted." 3102 O you who believe, reverence God as He deserves to be reverenced, and do not die except as ones who have submitted.

Salam All This post is for advanced Quran readers. Writing new constitutions seems to be a new fashion after the so called arabic revolutions. A parallel has been made between theses constitutions and the gold calf. Things fit so well that gold calf nature of the gold calf appears compromised. let's go back to our Quran, taking as base the monotheist translation 2083 ?And what has caused you to rush ahead of your people O Moses?? 2084 He said ?They are coming in my tracks, and I came quickly to you my Lord so you would be pleased.? 2085 He said ?We have tested your people after you left, and the Sumerian (SAMARI) misguided them.? Sumerian in a strange translation fro word SAMIRI. Others traduce SAMIRI by SAMARITAN. see http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer Each translation has his anachronistic and geographic problems. in this post i will point to another possible translation based only on linguistics. Root SMR of Samiri is found in verse 2367 with two possible translation 2367 You were too proud from it, talking evil about it; and you defiantly (Samiran) disregarded it. 23-67 Mustakbireena bihi samiran tahjuroona 23-67"In arrogance talking nonsense about the (Qur?n), like one telling fables by night (samiran)." ( &#1577 . " " . . . . . So SMR, in dictionary, point to staying up during the night. in spiritual meaning, it could mean people in spiritual darkness. Quran uses many times word dhulumat like this 141 ALR, a Book which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness (dhulumat) and into the light with the permission of their Lord, to the path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy. opposition between darkness and light of god is frequent in quran. so SAMIRI seems to be a leader (IMAM) to kofr (covering the truth) 912 And if they break their oaths after making their pledge, and they challenge the authority of your system; then you may fight the IMAMS od KOFR. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease. please note that dictionnary says that Kofr is not rejection but covering truth. That why rejection and shirk (association) are both included in kofr (taht's another subject). 2086 So Moses returned to his people angry and disappointed. He said ?My people, did not your Lord promise you a good promise? Has the waiting for the pledge been too long, or did you want that the wrath of your Lord be upon you? Thus you broke the promise with me.? no problem 2087 They said ?We did not break the promise by our own will, but we were loaded down with the jewelry of the people so we cast them down, and it was such that the Sumerian suggested.? it is a totally corrupted traduction for me. from where "bani israel" brought all the jewelry to make a complete calf of gold ? we know from 26-54 that "bani israel" was a small band. Seems like bani israel were very rich and was so devoted that they gave they gold. 2087 They said ?We did not break the promise by our own POWER (MOLK), but we were asked to carry (HOMMILNA) charges/reponsabilities (AWZAR) BY our elite (ZINATA EL QAOUM) and we rejected them as the SAMIRI suggested.? so no jewelry here. Just demagogy of of an IMAM of KOFR who convinced bani israel to follow him and not to do what "the best of the people" suggested. 2088 He then produced/brought out (AKHRAJA) for them a sculpture (JASSAD) of a calf (IJL) that emitted a cry (who has KHAWAR) . So they said ?This is your GOD (ILAH) and the ILAH of Moses, but he had forgotten!? in Arabic, IJL/AJALA means also precipitation/hastiness. Khawar means something weak ILAH is very delicate word since it leads also to word ALLAH. ILAH can be understood as ILA (to/towards) + H (him). So ILAH is kind of "spiritural" direction. At this point, we have to choose between 1- IMAM of the darkness produced a kind of constitution (a document to organize a community) full of weakness, hastingly. 2- A samaritan produced a gold calf from jewelry given par the small band of poor bani israel. Please note that "SAMIRI" seems to have worked alone "on the calf". 2089 Did they not see that it did not return to then any sayings? Nor did it possess for them any harm or benefit (dharr aw nafaan)? i changed the monotheist translation to put a word to word traduction. the calf/statue theory seems to fit more than the constitution theory here. dharr aw nafaan expression is used in (5-76 to ilah Jesus ?; 10-49 to ilah Muhammad ?, 20-89 to ilah calf ?, 25-3 to any kind anf associates attributed to God). i will go back to this verse after. 2090 And Aaron said to them before ?My people, you are being tested with it. Your Lord is the Almighty, so follow me and obey my command!? 2091 They said ?We will remain devoted to it until Moses comes back to us.? 2092 He said ?O Aaron, what prevented you when you saw them being astray?? 2093 ?Do you not follow me? Have you disobeyed my command?? no particular remarks. just that Aaron asked people to follow him (not Allah ?) people answered that they want to follow moses. (not Allah ?) Moses command seems to was be only "not let them go astray!". 2094 He said ?O son of my mother, do not grab me by my beard nor by my head. I was concerned that you would say that I separated between the Children of Israel, and that I did not follow your orders.? interesting to note the "son of my mother" expression. it is clearly a biological reference of brotherhood (see my provoking post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606235.msg347421#msg347421) Funny to note the apparition also of the only "prophetic" beard in quran. it is from where Moses choose to grab his biological brother. Interesting finally to note the "AARON" argument to not divide children of Israel. AARON is for root HARRA. Like abu Horeira ( &#1577 . . " ". so root points to ability to speaks to lifestock. It is the moment to recall that Aaron was just a nabi (informed one) on demand of Moses Himself who asked for a vizir (minister someone who carry charges with him). AARON clearly made a great mistake. He disn't acts like a nabi who has a task to do, that is a messenger. I will not focus on the "beard" symbol. 2095 He said ?So what do you have to say O SAMIRI?? 2096 He said ?I noticed what they did not notice, so I took a handful from where the messenger was standing, and I cast it in. This is what my soul inspired me to do.? 2096 is an horrible traduction for me. Samiri just said that he took some snippets of what have said the Messenger (Moses). Expresion is traces of Rassol. With theses snippets, SAMIRI made his own interpretations. That is what we call nowadays IJTIHAD. 2097 He said ?Then be gone, for you will have it in this life to say ?I am not to be touched? And you will have an appointed time which you will not forsake. And look to your god that you remained devoted to, we will burn him, then we will destroy him in the sea completely.? 2098 Surely your god is God; for which there is no god except He. His knowledge encompasses all things. burning the calf and dispersing gold in fusion in the sea ??? strange! a document burned and ashes dispersed in the sea seems more reasonable. Seems also that followers of SAMIRI will have to says "don't touch us". Is it the announce of "persecution" on earth for who follows IMAM of DARKNESS. SAMIRI is in fact the representative of spirit of Israel (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606235.0). The scholarship of ignorance and stupidity who use snippets of what "Messengers" of Allah, mix them with what "their soul" suggests him and use that mixture to astray people. That mixture is called "science", "GOD path" and chariaa. But that stupid science don't answer any questtion, never make any discovery, and give no harm or benefit (20-89 ?). Again, Bani Israel reversed the expulsion. In the "quranic" story, according to this post, Israel (symbolized by Samiri) , the messiah of the taghut, was expulsed again. And again, his "childs" rewrote history and said that true Messiah (that is Yeshua BIN NUN), who they rejected as Messiah, worked for the "kingdom of Israel". Conclusion if we throw away the "calf" explanation, i think that the story of the gold calf is a very interesting beginning for thinking about "constitutional" and human society organization. Clearly, the "calf" story came after a liberation from dictatorship of Firaoun and before the "true" liberation, that is the spiritual liberation (always the same duality insan/djinn). Liberated people from darkness have to be aware from Samiri and charlatanism while intellectual (the Aarons) have not to exchange hikma (wisdom) with the delusional "national cohesion" on stupidities. As member of Ismael, it is obvious for me that "muslims" countries are now in a similar situation of bani Israel at era of Moses. New constitutions are made, and Samiris made people believe that IJL will protect them to return in the darkness. Festivities of the calf can be seen in direct in Arabic countries. Just hope that "islamic" Ismael will awake and fight the "islamic" Israel and his samiris. Peace

http//www.deenresearch.com/Blogs/tabid/73/EntryId/155/Is-Islam-compatible-with-Socialism.aspx

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/wisdom.htm

Salam, I would rather not create a constitution for an Islamic State?there is a distinct possibility of the constitution being revered (some time in the distant future) as the document that initiated and propelled the renaissance of the Muslim Ummah. If so, it would acquire a sacred place in the minds of most ignorant men (the majority) and become a rigid and defining (irreplaceable) part of the system. But there are other reasons?which are irrelevant since the first question is Do we need a man-made constitution? Or do we already have one? What if we consider the Quran as constitution, and its application in our lives as ?the laws? we make, which are subject to perpetual change. As long as our decisions (by judges, consultative bodies, individuals) are in accordance with the Book of God, I feel comfortable in them being not exactly the same from time to time and from place to place. After all, the problems and circumstances we face are also not exactly the same every where and every time. Let us consider that the Quran is the constitution. And it contains all we need to know about running ?organized society?. Then the state (or organized society) exists to provide justice not by its own laws, but by the laws contained in the Book of God. It exists not as a necessity to Islam?but as something we humans need as a society to organize ourselves as a collective. The states reason for existence therefore is not to enforce, but to facilitate. The state is not an end in itself. it is a means to an end. The end goal, obviously, is to ?Submit to the will of the Lord of the Worlds?. To put in points, the Islamic State exists To facilitate the acceptance and practice of ?submission/surrender?. To ensure that justice is done according to the laws given in the Book of God. To protect from physical threat posed by external and internal forces to the freedom of belief and expression. To act as the ?collective conscious? towards the needs of the deserving. The co-ordinate the ?collective imagination? for humanity?s discovery of the universe and the laws that govern it. (i.e to co-ordinate the progress of technology and rationality.) If we accept the role of the state as facilitator then it must be curtailed to a minimum to stop it from becoming an interruption to us serving God alone. We submit to God and not to the state, or its laws. The state must not replace God in any way. It must not become an entity apart and away from the citizens that make it. It should be subservient to the laws given in the Book of God, and the needs of the men who co-ordinate it. Just like any collective body. Notes The man-made constitution would become sacred just like hadith books. We?ll repeat the same mistake, but we?ll do it differently (constitution vs. hadith). Just like we didn?t call Muhammad the Son of God (a Christian mistake), but we made him ?too loved?? more then God at times, and equal to God most of the times. A similar mistake, repeated with a semantic difference. The application of the Quran (rules/decisions) might seem to be different from time to time and place to place. That?s not a shortcoming of the Quran but the beauty of it. Only the God-given Book of Law can transform itself and reflect even the minor differences in circumstance and time. Replacing it by ?uniform man-made laws? stagnates society even though seemingly serving the need for ?standardization? and ?justice?. This is the same mistake Imam Shafi made ? believing that he could save the Muslim Ummah by ?freezing laws?. (Kasim Ahmed in ?Hadith ? A Re-evaluation?). The flexibility the Quran provides and the perfection of its guidelines negate the need for any other law-book. Sha

Salam All, after discussing anwar and me only about the subject of "constitution", I wonder if the rest of members are afraid about discussing this matter, and if you are afraid, I just want to know why? After discussing about Ummah concept, is there any body who want to discuss about "territory concept". I would like to remind every body, that constitution, if you mean constitution for a state, is the juridical mean to organise governing power and seperate this power in three powers, executive power, legislative power, and judicial power. it is also the mean to guaranty poeple freedom and human rights and solidarity between poeple, and it is the mean to express the principle on which a state is raised. I wonder if it was accurate to put the matter of "constitution" here, and if it is accurate to consider any political concern. I am very skeptic about it! Salam Zoubeir

People Pro-God An Organized Body of People Submissive to and for God The below is an unofficial contract of membership. As of now Idol free and I seem to be in agreement about it. We plan to sign it and to make its content available to all. We hope that you guys find yourselves in agreement with it and allow us to mail it to you so that you can sign it and mail it back to us to be put on record. In few paydays I will be filing for the status of non-profit. How many people can I count in as it concerns this fledgling non-profit of People Pro-God, an organized body of people submissive to and for God. I hereby pledge my membership and support to the organized community of People Pro-God on the conditions that this organized body remains loyal and submissive to and for God. I testify to the realization that this organization is not Muslim, Christian, Jewish or of any religion or culture other than the religion and culture of being Pro-God in everyway, that is the religion and culture of submission to and for God. I vow to submit myself to and for the lord God, the lord of all classes of things, types, nations and races. Furthermore, I vow to never take any entity or thing as God?s equal. I hereby acknowledge that I will remain loyal to what I logically, using all the faculties of intelligence available to me, discern to be God?s message or messages. I hereby pledge to support all of those men, women and children that also have taken this same pledge and who have vowed to be submissive to and for God. That is, to be pro-God in every way. I testify to God?s indivisible unity. I do not believe God to be or consist of any trinity, duality or plurality. I pledge to be loyal to the intelligently founded belief that God is a unity. Furthermore, I pledge to be loyal to the intelligently founded belief that God is neither male nor female, man nor woman. I am loyal to the intelligently founded belief that God has no gender, although God creates the genders. I hereby pledge my loyalty to the belief that men and women are of equal merit, recognizing that men and women are apart of the same family of God?s human creation. Those men and women who are submissive to and for God I believe to be one, upstanding family, and more specifically, the family of Abraham. This family is a family to which I am hereby pledging my loyalty and never-waning support, for the sole reason that this family vows to submit itself to and for God, takes God as its sole lord and superior, and makes no equals with its sole superior, being God alone. I accept both men and woman as members of equal merit within this family. I hereby pledge to defend and protect myself, and those I have within this document pledged to support. I, from the signing of this document on, have become integrated under the common umbrella of submission to and for God with the aforementioned family. I hereby promise to never fall into disunion with the aforementioned family. I will never partake in any disunion, faction, sect or party that wishes to separate or segregate itself from the aforementioned family. That is, the family of people loyal to God and submissive to and for God. I hereby promise to uphold always the virtue of self-protection, also known as ????? (ataqwaa, in its Early Islamic/Pre-Islamic Classical Arabic sense), detailed in God?s message, popularly known as the Koran. I also pledge to never fight or kill except in defense from my being condemned, battered or oppressed, in the defense of other people also submissive to and for God from being condemned, battered or oppressed, or in defense of any people friendly to those who are submissive to and for God wishing to be liberated from oppression. I agree to the definition of Oppression offered here being any one?s ability to prosper being impeded. I hereby pledge to be of the godly, making known God?s writings and decrees and studying these with intelligence and logic. I hereby pledge to never uphold any one as a superior other than God and to always, intelligently, resort to mutual, and never exclusive, consultation with the members of the aforementioned community to resolve any problem or to make any decision that will affect or involve this community. I pledge to never proceed with this mutual consultation or implement any decisions made therein independent of what I discern to be God?s message. I hereby testify that the book popularly known as the Koran, having been revealed to the prophet Muhammad, may God bless him, is God?s message. If I have not read the Koran or heard enough of it to so testify then I at least testify to have knowledge of the promotions of the organized community of People Pro-God, and have found myself in agreement with them. I also pledge to learn the language of the Koran and to analyze and study both this language and the Koran to increase my knowledge of whatever God may want from me. I pledge to uphold, think on and respect the works of God and to align myself with the wisdom that these works imply and decree. I pledge to uphold prayer to God, to follow God closely, to uphold promotions of Good and Well being, to be in compliance with and to offer all that betters, and to follow the religion of Abraham, which is submission to and for God. That is, to be pro-God in every way. I also pledge to call people towards all beneficial things, to command what is honorable and to prohibit what is dishonorable, extracting the exemplar(s) of honor and dishonor from God?s message. I pledge to never disregard God?s message and hereby pledge loyalty to the whole of what I discern, using all of the faculties of intelligence available to me, as God?s message. I also testify that as long as I am a part of this organization of People Pro-God that I will submit to the entirety of the Law of God?s message, discerned through a consideration that has only stopped a the boundary of available, consistent intelligence. I will always take God?s message into account in any decision or judgment that I may make. I testify to the truth of all that God has revealed to all of his prophets, provided that what God has given them can be logically and intelligently discerned and recognized. I will also be faithful to all that God has revealed to his prophets through the following peoples mentioned in the Koran Isaac, Ishmael, the tribes of Jacob, Moses and Jesus, the son of Miriam (She is also known as Mary). May God bless them all. I pledge to uphold God?s message no matter what the medium of communication or the formula of words used to accurately express it. I testify to the realization that if at any time any one would wish to dissolve his or her membership with this community, he or she can do so freely without any threat or tactics of coercion being implemented, nor any penalty for dissolution of membership being enacted. I also testify to the realization that at the moment of any member?s dissolution of membership he or she also willfully forfeits all duties that the members of People Pro-God have had to him or her as a member of this organization. He or she also forfeits all of the duties particular to this organization that he or she had to the members of this particular organization of people submissive to and for God. I agree that every thing, whatever it may be, that has somehow become the common property of the organization of People Pro-God, despite my involvement with the thing?s procurement or maintenance, will remain in the common possession of the organization of People Pro-God in spite of my membership or the dissolution of my membership. I agree that as long as I am apart of the aforementioned organization that I will uphold and keep true and pure its most essential and ultimate principle. This principle is submission to and for God. I pledge to never prefer any party, nor any certain formula of words over any other party or formula of words that uphold the abovementioned principle. I denounce any creed, belief, philosophy, culture, concept, law or custom that is in conflict with my submission to and for God. Godlessness is an excess/transgression of this organization?s most essential and ultimate principle mentioned above. Taking this into account, I acknowledge that any person(s) may turn to godlessness. However, I pledge to keep to godliness to the best of my discernment, using all of the faculties of intelligence available to me. If at anytime I am convinced of godlessness, again using all of my available faculties of intelligence, within this organization I pledge to expose such godlessness in the most excellent and beneficial way(s). Additionally, I pledge to denounce such godlessness and to separate myself from it in whatever way that I see fit if this godlessness proves persistent, pervasive and unyielding within this particular organization of People Pro-God. I testify that God is my lord. That is, my superior. I pledge to make nothing God?s equal. I pledge that God is my only god, being the only entity that I view as supreme. Furthermore, I devote myself to God, Indivisible and Unique, the Supreme Being, Creator and Superior of all, Uncontained and Omnipresent. In God?s name I have testified to be in agreement with and have pledged my fidelity to all of the abovementioned. I, furthermore, vow to keep my promise of fidelity to all of the above testimonies, agreements, acknowledgements, pledges, vows and promises. Gobless, Anwar

United Nations Declaration of Human rights http//www.un.org/Overview/rights.html versus Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights http//www.alhewar.com/ISLAMDECL.html

Peace As regards your children's (inheritance), to each male a share equal to that of two females, i.e. one girl = 1/3 and one boy = 2/3. Why is this like this? Why is the female bieng given less than the male? Are they not equal? ? Peace=

are you refering to the islamic constitution department? i dont think its balanced simply because that society still upholds islam (by using the quran as source of law) above any other religion which means that non-muslims would still eventually become dominated secand rate citizens. in such a theocratic society you cannot prevent rampant discriminations against the non-believers. So if we make laws based on a mix of ideas from Plato, Machiavelli, Marx and others that would make it a balanced constitution? Please Doctor...I expected much better from you. You cannot question the 'balance' nature of a law because it comes from the wrong source! You tell me whats wrong with the law...how does it mistreat people? discriminate against people? ignore them? with-hold their rights? deny them freedoms? The following laws were taken from common sense rather than from any specific religion. American constitution Canadian constitution Japanese constitution Australian constitution Philippine constitution And does any of these law mistreat people or discriminate against people? I dont think so. Like my home, Canada. Such a lovely state of multiculturalism. Everybody is happy. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Athiests, Black, White, Asian, Male, Female, Gay. Dude, I LOVE IT HERE!!! When it comes to politics common sense is more valuable than religious ideas. Come forward and question the laws, not the source of the law. And with sound reasoning...real-world reasoning and see if we still don't make sense to you. Relax. Cool down. We are humans like you; not just submitters to God. Of course. I am merely against attributing common sense laws to a specific religious text. Like ?thou shalt not steal?. This is plain common sense that even isolated pagan tribes implement and it would be very wrong to credit this to.. lets say... the bible. Because by doing so the state would be patronizing one religion over the others which guarantees discrimination among its citizens by which the non-adherents of this state-patronized-religion automatically becomes 2nd or 3rd class citizens. It would not be fair. Agree? in such a theocratic society you cannot prevent rampant discriminations against the non-believers. A society that allows complete freedom of belief is a theocratic society? A society that promotes one religion over the rest is a theocratic society. Right? i dont know about that yet. i kept asking Layth what he meant by "israeli occupation" but he just ignores me so i cant help thinking that he wants to drive the jews to the sea unless they give in to Layth's proposed solution. Forget the word 'Israel'. There is a government in Jerusalem that uses copters to kill humans. According to rights granted to every human in our society, which you find theocratic & unacceptable, this government violates their fundamental right to live. these copters kill terrorist commanders who hide behind women and children. although the killing of civilians were unintentional the colateral casualties had to be risked because the choice was ?them or us?. The palestinians are just pawns here. The power and mover behind them are the arabs manipulators. But hey everyone of them are to blame for this crisis. I just think the arabs are the greater sinners. If only. Unfortunately its not realistic to the current events. So you think we are idealists. Well yes we are. We believe that a just, pluralistic, tolerant, peaceful, prosperous world society is possible. Are you going to loathe us for being idealists? twisted Not me, buddy. Dear Doctor...you place us in a very difficult position. You criticize the same people we criticize and then you want us to defend them. roll Please wake up. You said before we are 'liberal muslims'. We are not liberal. We are muslims. Muslims to God. Period. And the majority that you call muslims are worshippers of dogma; believing they are doing the right thing by beating up women, murdering apostates, cutting off hands, and so on. See...we agree with you. They are wrong. Is that difficult to comprehend? Hmmm this is a bit complicated. You criticize them for using the sunnahs and hadiths. You think that is the problem. I think the problem goes all the way to the quran. A not so ?clear? message which is why you have a problem with this too because your radical translation is quite...questionable. The root of many islamic problems lie with the verses i posted above. The beatings and unjust treatment of women. Even Rashad Khalifa understands the quran the way it was translated above. So what I see is that you guys are unwittingly or unconsciously sugarcoating Islam, thus prolonging a very wrong religion. But we put a condition the fundamental rights guaranteed by the Quran cannot be abrogated even by a majority vote. Even you should agree that no matter how advanced the society, and no matter what its demands, there are some fundamental rights which are eternal in their essense. And that is why you are heading for another theocratic state. I wonder whos translation you would be using because according to the ones i posted above it is a fundamental right to do scourge disloyal wives. It is a fundamental right for sons to have double the inheritance given to daughters (which is probably ok in the dark age scenario, but not today when both parents are required to work to make ends meet). When it comes to morality I adhere to the christian teaching of love and "non-violent resistance". It is comforting to know that you believe in God. Err I dont actually believe in God. I am just an agnostic who holds to some christianic values. Can I explain one thing although you should have noticed it in your study of religions already most religions profess belief in God in some way, and they talk about every person being judged for his works in life. I believe in the old saying...?IF THERE IS NO GOD THERE WOULD BE A NEED TO INVENT HIM?. It is an error to say ?most religions profess belief in God in some way?. No they dont believe in God, each believes in A GOD. And each religion?s ?God? is unique from each other. You think by becoming a muslim you are following the God of judaism and christianity? no. Your god is different and their god is different. Well...surprise surprise...what we are trying to practise is NOT a new religion with NECESSARILY the Quran as guide and Muhammad as prophet. It is the 'original' moral code given to Adam, the same was given to Moses, to Christ, to Muhammad. I believe that Hinduism also emerges from the same 'original' belief in one God, the day of judgement and doing good deeds. And probably Buddha and Confuscious too were Prophets of God preaching this same message. It is only by faith that you can say that the quran was the ?original moral code? given to adam & moses. You cannot prove otherwise. Joseph Smith prophet of the Mormons also made such a claim and they also cannot prove it. So factually Islam was only born in the 7th century. So yes...if you too believe in God, if you believe you will one day be judged and you do good deeds (do unto others what you would like to be done to you); you have a very good chance of successfully surviving the shock of death and entering jannah. P It is fruitful for ME in striving to live a just and compassionate life. If there is a god I hope he credits me for these. What I would really want to know is what values are there in the quran that are not already being taught in schools and other religions? You are right. You can learn them from outside the Quran too. Go ahead. We are not stopping you. uh you wont give any examples of uniquely quranic values? If you really want to know the 'straight path' to God...the Quran gives you a shortcut. But if you like the longcut and want the uncertainty of life to be your guide...its your choice. And why the quran, not the bible, or the book of mormons, or the talmud, or the book of dianetics? Where is the evidence for the authority of this book? I can say for myself...I like this shortcut. It suits me. what if your ?shortcut? is just an illusion? an illusion that is dark from angles you refuse to see.

Peace to you all, I am posting the 'Quranic Bill of Rights' if anyone wishes to add add, or comment (personally, I do not think that # 8 is relevant or approriate and would like to delete it) Rights of Citizens. ?And We have honoured the Children of Adam and carried them in the land and the sea, and We have provided for them of the good things, and We have preferred them over many of those We created in a marked preference.? (1770) The rights that are outlined in this section of the constitution are granted to every man, woman, and child who is a citizen of the Republic. These rights are only subject to the limitation of the laws outlined in section 6 of this constitution. Otherwise, these rights cannot be undermined, diluted, suspended, or taken away by the republic under any circumstances or under any emergency. 1? Freedom of Speech. ?And his people debated with him. He said ?Do you debate with me regarding God, when He Has guided me? I do not fear that which you have set-up except if my Lord wishes it so; my Lord encompasses all things with knowledge; will you not remember?? (680) The right of free speech is granted to all citizens as well as the right to assemble, publicly protest, debate, establish unions, and establish political parties. 2? Freedom of Faith. ?And say ?The truth is from your Lord, so let whomever desires believe, and whomever desires reject.? We have prepared for the wicked a fire whose walls will be surrounding them. And if they cry out, they are given a water like boiling oil which burns their faces. What a miserable place!? (1829) The Republic acknowledges the right of its citizens to believe, or not believe, in any faith or religion they may see fit. This right to worship includes the establishment of temples, mosques, synagogue, churches and any other constructs used for such purpose. No person may be discriminated against or harmed because of his/her faith. 3? Freedom of Movement. ?And recall that He made you successors after ?Aad, and He established you in the land so that you make palaces on its plains, and you carve homes in the mountains. So recall God?s grace, and do not roam the earth as corrupters? (774) There is no restriction on the movement of people or goods within the borders of the Republic or to any other nation outside the Republic. However, the movement of people or goods into the Republic will be subject to the immigration department laws as well as the trade department laws. 4? Right to Public Services. ?And Abraham said ?My Lord, make this town a sanctuary, and provide for its inhabitants of the fruits for whoever believes in God and the last day?. He said ?As for he who rejects, I will let him enjoy for a while, then I will force him to the retribution of the Fire, what a miserable destiny!? (2126) All citizens of the Republic have the right to public utilities and services to made available by the Republic provided that such money is available and budgeted for such purpose. Utilities to be provided includes, but is not limited to roads, paths, railways, airports, electricity, water, sewage systems, telephone, communication, hospitals, schools. 5? Right to Seek Justice. ?And those who, when gross injustice befalls them, they seek justice? (4239) All citizens, residents, and travellers within the Republic have the right to seek justice against any wrongdoing or crime that befalls them. Such right shall be executed through the Department of Justice without undue delay. 6? Right to Possess Wealth. ?It has been adorned for people to love the desire of the most modern things, and buildings, and ornaments made from gold and silver, and trained horses, and the livestock, and fields; they are the enjoyment of the world, and with God are the best goods.? (314) The Republic allows its citizens to possess wealth and to engage in trade, development, and commerce according to the skills and talents of each individual. There are no restrictions placed on the right of the citizen to posses wealth as long as the accumulation of such wealth is not done illegally. Right to Equal Opportunity. ?O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honourable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.? (4913) Citizens of the Republic have the right to equal opportunity in employment and treatment irrespective of gender, race, colour, or ethnic background. 8? Suggested Moral/Ethical Values of Citizen. ?And serve God and do not set-up anything with Him, and be kind to the parents, and the relatives, and the needy, and the neighbour who is of kin, and the neighbour next door, and the friend far away, and the traveller, and those you are bound to by your oath. God does not like the arrogant, the boastful.? (436) ?And if you are greeted with any greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. God is Reckoning over all things.? (486) ?Have you not seen how God cites the example of a good word like a good tree, whose root is firm and its branches in the sky. It bears its fruit every so often my its Lord?s leave. And God cites the example for mankind, perhaps they will remember.? (1424-25) ?And do not turn your cheek arrogantly from people, nor shall you roam the earth insolently. For God does not like the arrogant show offs. And be humble in how you walk and lower your voice. For the harshest of all voices is the donkey's voice? (3118-19) ?Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them with that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.? (16125) ?And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except Him, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reaches old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor shout at them, but say to them a kind saying. And lower for them the wing of humility through mercy, and say ?My Lord, have mercy upon them as they have raised me when I was small? (1723-24) ?And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width is as the width of the heavens and earth, it has been prepared for the righteous. The ones who spend in prosperity and adversity, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers. And those who, if they commit any evil, or wrong themselves, they remember God and seek forgiveness for their sins. And who forgives the sins except God? And they do not persist in what they have done while they know.? (3133-135) ?Not equal is the good and the bad response. You shall resort to one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend.? (4134) ?And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say ?Peace? (2563) ?O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.? (4911) The above is a list of ?values? that have been highlighted from the teachings of the Quran. These values are in no way enforceable by law and are merely placed in this constitution as a reflection and reminder for citizens.