Remembering the true nature of our enemy
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Has anyone seen Yusha lately? Maybe he/she (dont know P ) has gotten sick or on vacation.
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Peace LP,
Its just because no one is willing to buy any crap on this forum. So why not try somewhere else. )
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Kind of reminds me of this one philosophy forum I became an administrator on that had a really big spam problem because no one got on. So I was constantly banning people and deleting posts. Then I discovered that there were about 100 IP adresses who used the "Guest" username and thought that this is where all the spam comes from. I banned every single one of the IP adresses. The next day I learned that I accidentally banned myself. I felt so stupid.
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peace rasulhamsa,
In that particular Verse Nikah doesn't refer to marriage but the sexual relations. See Lane for different meanings of Nikah. http//www.studyquran.co.uk/
Thank you for your input, ?marriage or sexual relation??
(As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement. 24 2.
The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. 24 3.
going by your definition of nikah in this verse, I will rephrase my question
If stoning to death is the punishment for the unchaste according to yusha.
Then, how can God forbid the believers from having SEXUAL RELATIONS with those who logically should have been already dead by stoning? it doesn't make any sense.
further in the same sura it is stated
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity these are not affected by what people say for them there is forgiveness and a provision honorable. 2426.according to my understanding this verse supports 243 ?...men of purity are for women of purity and vice versa.... it can't be for sexual relation but marriage.
peace
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Peace Agentxxx,
As for I could understand about the stoning to death is it might have been the practice for the rapist who has also killed the female after raping her. For such an animal stoning to death fits perfectly. Otherwise I agree with you that for adulterer and adulteress Quran only mentions flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes and not a death penalty.
further in the same sura it is stated
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity these are not affected by what people say for them there is forgiveness and a provision honorable. 2426.according to my understanding this verse supports 243 ?...men of purity are for women of purity and vice versa.... it can't be for sexual relation but marriage.
The verse 2426 doesn't refer to marriage but as simple as mentioned in the following verses
971 And the believers, men and women, are friends one of another.
8 74. And those who disbelieve - they are friends one of another.For 243 I would again say that you cannot make a law that an adultere/adulteress would remain the same whole his/her life and cannot repent and come to the right path. God is merciful, He is not unjust, so such a prohibition would end up a bizarre situation in the society, think for a second yourself what situation comes to your mind that if a person have come to the right path after committing zina but still he/she cannot marry anyone but to the adulterer/adulteress.
Peace, Hamsa
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peace rasulhamsa,
For 243 I would again say that you cannot make a law that an adultere/adulteress would remain the same whole his/her life and cannot repent and come to the right path.
Bro I thinks there is a misunderstanding? I never said or suggested that the unchaste can?t repent and come to the right path?
And those WHO WHEN THEY COMMIT AN INDECENCY OR DO INJUSTICE to their souls REMEMBER ALLAH AND ASK FORGIVENESS FOR THEIR FAULTS-- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) DO NOT KNOWINGLY PERSIST IN WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. 3135.
(As for) these-- their reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them, and excellent is the reward of the laborers. 3136.
The only point I was trying to make was, that the verse 243 makes it clear , death by stoning as a punishment for fornication is not supported by quran.
I can?t even remember how many times I have repented through out my life? And I don?t know how many time in the future I will err???I try my best to keep myself on the right path, or stay as close as possible, but I have understood that as an average humane being, greed/temptations/emotions have/will sometimes made me swerve from the right path.
Forgiveness and mercy of the almighty are the attributes that inspire me to mend my ways and immediately get back on the right track after realizing my swerve.
peace
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peace yusha,
how will you explain this verse bro?
24 3. The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.
Wa alaikum assalaam
The punishment for ADULTERY is stoning to death. Fornication is pre-marital relations, whereas adultery is extramarital relations, the latter being far worse obviously, and definitely deserving of execution.
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The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.
Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)
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Question
Peace Yusha
That is not the action to be meted out according to the quran as far as I am aware. If you've derived the punishment from the quran can you show me how?
JoeAnswer
The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.
Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)
Simple, Isn't it?
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what Bukhari has done to Ummah?.............Keep watching!.................. elektro
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
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Peace,
ab?ro?gate /?brget/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?verb (used with object), -gat?ed, -gat?ing. 1. to abolish by formal or official means; annul by an authoritative act; repeal to abrogate a law.
2. to put aside; put an end to.So, the qur'an was abrogated by a Persian some 250 years after it's deliverance. Nice! confused
Thankfully, the qur'an, with God's infinite wisdom, warned us of these claims - to clear any confusion for those who would listen...576 Say, ?Would you worship in place of Allah that which possesses no power of harm or benefit to you?? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.
378 Among them are those who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, ?It is from Allah?, when it is not from Allah. They speak a lie concerning Allah, and they know it.
3150 Remember, only Allah is your MAULA (Master) and He is the Best of helpers.
3138 This is a clarification for the people, and a guidance and enlightenment for the righteous.
53 ...This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life.
638 "We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book."
1689 "We have revealed to you this book to provide EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING."
6114 "Shall I seek OTHER THAN GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?"
2533 And no question do they bring to you but We bring to you the Truth and the best explanation.and the clincher...
316 And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.Peace,
Tay -
Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
Now I hope you can see what it means. Both allegations claim that the quraan is not to be trusted..true verses disappear, false verses appear...What else? Oh, yeh, verses abrogated by hadiths, by actions of the prophet, verses withheld , others tied to some events. Why on earth would I call such an untrustworthy book divine or even study it ?
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You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.
But how brother Yusha?
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Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?
This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life
This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.
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You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?
Because of the suffering of the ummah for more than 1000 years elektro
And for the following reasons as well
621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.
737 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters.
1017 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
6945 We should certainly seize him by right hand, - And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,