Remembering the true nature of our enemy

agentxxx

peace rasulhamsa,

For 243 I would again say that you cannot make a law that an adultere/adulteress would remain the same whole his/her life and cannot repent and come to the right path.

Bro I thinks there is a misunderstanding? I never said or suggested that the unchaste can?t repent and come to the right path?

And those WHO WHEN THEY COMMIT AN INDECENCY OR DO INJUSTICE to their souls REMEMBER ALLAH AND ASK FORGIVENESS FOR THEIR FAULTS-- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) DO NOT KNOWINGLY PERSIST IN WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. 3135.

(As for) these-- their reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them, and excellent is the reward of the laborers. 3136.

The only point I was trying to make was, that the verse 243 makes it clear , death by stoning as a punishment for fornication is not supported by quran.

I can?t even remember how many times I have repented through out my life? And I don?t know how many time in the future I will err???I try my best to keep myself on the right path, or stay as close as possible, but I have understood that as an average humane being, greed/temptations/emotions have/will sometimes made me swerve from the right path.

Forgiveness and mercy of the almighty are the attributes that inspire me to mend my ways and immediately get back on the right track after realizing my swerve.

peace

Ghulam_Rasool

peace yusha,

how will you explain this verse bro?

24 3. The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.

Wa alaikum assalaam

The punishment for ADULTERY is stoning to death. Fornication is pre-marital relations, whereas adultery is extramarital relations, the latter being far worse obviously, and definitely deserving of execution.

TheNabi

Peace Yusha

That is not the action to be meted out according to the quran as far as I am aware. If you've derived the punishment from the quran can you show me how?

Joe

Ghulam_Rasool

The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.

Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)

unknownuser

Question

Peace Yusha
That is not the action to be meted out according to the quran as far as I am aware. If you've derived the punishment from the quran can you show me how?
Joe

Answer

The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.

Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)

Simple, Isn't it?

Samia

The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.

voodoo

Says who?

( Bukhari)

I see. confused

unknownuser

what Bukhari has done to Ummah?.............Keep watching!.................. elektro

Ghulam_Rasool

And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)

unknownuser

And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)

Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.

Tay

Peace,

ab?ro?gate /?brget/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?verb (used with object), -gat?ed, -gat?ing. 1. to abolish by formal or official means; annul by an authoritative act; repeal to abrogate a law.
2. to put aside; put an end to.

So, the qur'an was abrogated by a Persian some 250 years after it's deliverance. Nice! confused
Thankfully, the qur'an, with God's infinite wisdom, warned us of these claims - to clear any confusion for those who would listen...

576 Say, ?Would you worship in place of Allah that which possesses no power of harm or benefit to you?? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.

378 Among them are those who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, ?It is from Allah?, when it is not from Allah. They speak a lie concerning Allah, and they know it.

3150 Remember, only Allah is your MAULA (Master) and He is the Best of helpers.
3138 This is a clarification for the people, and a guidance and enlightenment for the righteous.
53 ...This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life.
638 "We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book."
1689 "We have revealed to you this book to provide EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING."
6114 "Shall I seek OTHER THAN GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?"
2533 And no question do they bring to you but We bring to you the Truth and the best explanation.

and the clincher...
316 And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.

Peace,
Tay

Ghulam_Rasool

Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.

You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.

Samia

And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)

Now I hope you can see what it means. Both allegations claim that the quraan is not to be trusted..true verses disappear, false verses appear...What else? Oh, yeh, verses abrogated by hadiths, by actions of the prophet, verses withheld , others tied to some events. Why on earth would I call such an untrustworthy book divine or even study it ?

unknownuser

You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.

But how brother Yusha?

Ghulam_Rasool

Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.

You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?

This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life

This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.

unknownuser

You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?

Because of the suffering of the ummah for more than 1000 years elektro

And for the following reasons as well

621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.

737 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters.

1017 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.

And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
6945 We should certainly seize him by right hand,
And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart

Tay

Peace,

abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on

Says Yusha. I'm sorry, but your word holds no weight in comparison to that of God. Nor was Bukhari given any authority to do such a thing. I'd be weary of this if I were you.

Peace,
Tay

Tay

Peace,

For those who still have doubt

Complete

having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; whole; entire; full a complete set of Mark Twain's writings.
finished; ended; concluded a complete orbit.

Perfect

conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman.
excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect.
exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting out keyholes.
entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings a perfect apple; the perfect crime.
accurate, exact, or correct in every detail a perfect copy.
thorough; complete; utter perfect strangers.
pure or unmixed perfect yellow.
unqualified; absolute He has perfect control over his followers.

This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life(53)

Can it be any more clear?

Peace,
Tay

*edited to add verse

Samia

This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.

Am I understanding you correctly? You do not believe in abrogation?

Doesn't the same "missing verse" abrogate the verse we have for the punishment of adultrers? Speak of contradictions!!

Ghulam_Rasool

Am I understanding you correctly? You do not believe in abrogation?

Let me clarify Allah revealed the injunctions of Islam to humanity in stages. The law which he gave to Prophet Noah (alaihi salaam), known as the Seven Noachide Laws, were abrogated when He revealed the Torah to Moses (alaihi salaam), at least for the Israelites it was abrogated. Then when Allah sent the Last and Final Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) He revealed the final law, which is the Holy Quran.

But the revelation of the Holy Quran was very unique. All the previous scriptures were revealed at once, but the Holy Quran was revealed in stages

It is We Who have sent down the Qur'an to thee by stages (7623)

The laws of Islam were revealed gradually in stages. For example, Islam first forbade approaching salaat while in a state of intoxication. Then, the revelation came which unconditionally forbade any intoxication under any circumstances. Then when the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to convey Islam and the final covenant for humanity was completed, Allah revealed the verse that He has perfected the deen and completed it. Then after that, there is no more need for abrogation, everything has been completed and perfected.

Elke

Then when the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to convey Islam and the final covenant for humanity was completed, Allah revealed the verse that He has perfected the deen and completed it. Then after that, there is no more need for abrogation, everything has been completed and perfected.

so where does sunna and hadith fit in ?