Remembering the true nature of our enemy
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Question
Peace Yusha
That is not the action to be meted out according to the quran as far as I am aware. If you've derived the punishment from the quran can you show me how?
JoeAnswer
The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.
Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)
Simple, Isn't it?
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what Bukhari has done to Ummah?.............Keep watching!.................. elektro
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
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Peace,
ab?ro?gate /?brget/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?verb (used with object), -gat?ed, -gat?ing. 1. to abolish by formal or official means; annul by an authoritative act; repeal to abrogate a law.
2. to put aside; put an end to.So, the qur'an was abrogated by a Persian some 250 years after it's deliverance. Nice! confused
Thankfully, the qur'an, with God's infinite wisdom, warned us of these claims - to clear any confusion for those who would listen...576 Say, ?Would you worship in place of Allah that which possesses no power of harm or benefit to you?? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.
378 Among them are those who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, ?It is from Allah?, when it is not from Allah. They speak a lie concerning Allah, and they know it.
3150 Remember, only Allah is your MAULA (Master) and He is the Best of helpers.
3138 This is a clarification for the people, and a guidance and enlightenment for the righteous.
53 ...This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life.
638 "We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book."
1689 "We have revealed to you this book to provide EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING."
6114 "Shall I seek OTHER THAN GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?"
2533 And no question do they bring to you but We bring to you the Truth and the best explanation.and the clincher...
316 And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.Peace,
Tay -
Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
Now I hope you can see what it means. Both allegations claim that the quraan is not to be trusted..true verses disappear, false verses appear...What else? Oh, yeh, verses abrogated by hadiths, by actions of the prophet, verses withheld , others tied to some events. Why on earth would I call such an untrustworthy book divine or even study it ?
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You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.
But how brother Yusha?
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Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?
This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life
This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.
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You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?
Because of the suffering of the ummah for more than 1000 years elektro
And for the following reasons as well
621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.
737 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters.
1017 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
6945 We should certainly seize him by right hand, - And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
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Peace,
abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on
Says Yusha. I'm sorry, but your word holds no weight in comparison to that of God. Nor was Bukhari given any authority to do such a thing. I'd be weary of this if I were you.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
For those who still have doubt
Complete
- having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; whole; entire; full a complete set of Mark Twain's writings.
- finished; ended; concluded a complete orbit.
Perfect
- conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman.
- excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect.
- exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting out keyholes.
- entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings a perfect apple; the perfect crime.
- accurate, exact, or correct in every detail a perfect copy.
- thorough; complete; utter perfect strangers.
- pure or unmixed perfect yellow.
- unqualified; absolute He has perfect control over his followers.
This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life(53)
Can it be any more clear?
Peace,
Tay*edited to add verse
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This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.
Am I understanding you correctly? You do not believe in abrogation?
Doesn't the same "missing verse" abrogate the verse we have for the punishment of adultrers? Speak of contradictions!!
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Am I understanding you correctly? You do not believe in abrogation?
Let me clarify Allah revealed the injunctions of Islam to humanity in stages. The law which he gave to Prophet Noah (alaihi salaam), known as the Seven Noachide Laws, were abrogated when He revealed the Torah to Moses (alaihi salaam), at least for the Israelites it was abrogated. Then when Allah sent the Last and Final Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) He revealed the final law, which is the Holy Quran.
But the revelation of the Holy Quran was very unique. All the previous scriptures were revealed at once, but the Holy Quran was revealed in stages
It is We Who have sent down the Qur'an to thee by stages (7623)
The laws of Islam were revealed gradually in stages. For example, Islam first forbade approaching salaat while in a state of intoxication. Then, the revelation came which unconditionally forbade any intoxication under any circumstances. Then when the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to convey Islam and the final covenant for humanity was completed, Allah revealed the verse that He has perfected the deen and completed it. Then after that, there is no more need for abrogation, everything has been completed and perfected.
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Then when the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to convey Islam and the final covenant for humanity was completed, Allah revealed the verse that He has perfected the deen and completed it. Then after that, there is no more need for abrogation, everything has been completed and perfected.
so where does sunna and hadith fit in ?
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Peace to all,
Jankren, I watched the videos you posted and your comment about how these pwople are commiting evil in the name of Islam, so I did a little research. The video you posted is not of traditional Muslims killing a girl for dating a person of another religion, it is actually a 17 year old Kurdish girl that was a Yazidi, who started dating a Sunni Muslim, it was her parents and people of her former religion the Yazidi who attacked her and stoned her to death for dating a Muslim, so your whole argument is backwards. The Yazidi are a pre Islamic religion of mixed Jewish, Zoroastrianism, and other beliefs. It was the Yazidi who killed their own 17 year old girl by stoning her to death, and they did it because she converted to Islam and started dating a Sunni Muslim. Notice in the article how a group of Sunni Muslims retaliated against the Yazidi by stopping a bus and letting all the christians go, then they shot the Yazidis.
Oh well, the damage is already done, this video is posted everywhere and everyone says its proof of how evil the muslims are.
Ps, sister Honor, I can understand how upset this has made you as a woman seeing such sickening violence being committed against a woman, I couldnt even watch the whole video, violence literally makes me sick to witness. Lets just remember who it is that committed this act of evil, it wasnt the traditional Muslims.
http//news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2519070.ece
Kurt
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Peace Ironsky,
Thanks for posting that. It's interesting how the reactions were on these videos. I mean, for sure, it's sickening, it doesn't matter if it's religious, political or just thuggery that instigated the situation, it's just horrible. But... having said that, most here instantly believed believed both videos, both atrocities were committed by traditional muslims, that wasn't even a question. While I wasn't sure about the first one, if you saw my post earlier I had pointed out a correction on the second one without the need to go into too much research. They weren't traditional muslims either.
Again, I'm glad you posted that. I think it gives insight to how we think. Not to change the subject, but it reminded me of how as soon as soon as the second plane hit the second tower on 9/11, most people (including myself) believed it was OBL/Al Qaeda... mainly because we had been conditioned for a few years before that, that it was OBL's signature to conduct mulitple attacks at the same time.
peace
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peace yusha,
The punishment for ADULTERY is stoning to death. Fornication is pre-marital relations, whereas adultery is extramarital relations, the latter being far worse obviously, and definitely deserving of execution.
That?s your opinion bro and you are entitled to it, but according to my personal judgment this idea of ?stoning to death? may have been the innovation of Sultans/Nawabs, who wanted to control their harems of beautiful women through terror?And God knows how many time people in power have used such punishment to get rid of their political and other rivals, or for some other personal gain.
This is not the punishment prescribe in Quran for adultery.
According to my understanding, Killing is permissible under two conditions only
On that account We ordained for the Children of Israel THAT IF ANY ONE SLEW A PERSON - unless it be for MURDER or for SPREADING MISCHIEF in the land - IT WOULD BE AS IF HE SLEW THE WHOLE PEOPLE and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. 532.
peace
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SHARI'AH LAWS ARE PLAGIARIZED FROM THE BIBLE!
Sheikh Sultan M. As-Salameh, CairoThe Muslim Ummah is practicing much of the Judeo-Christian beliefs largely from the Old Testament. The 'religion' considered and practised as Islam today has degenerated from the time of Prophet Muhammad (S). In the beginning there was a very simple Deen, Al-Islam revealed to the Prophet (S), which was fully encapsulated in just one Book, the Qur'an.
For example, the covering of the head for women which has become a point of much discussion in the West, is actually not found in the Qur'an. Therefore, it is not a part of the original teachings of the Prophet. Rather it has been taken from the Christian Bible and incorporated into Islam.
Similarly many of the beliefs that are considered Islamic are actually derived from the Jewish and Christian scriptures. After the exalted Prophet many Muslim scholars were converts from Christianity, Zoroastrianism and Judaism. These scholars sought to seek common grounds between them. Hence, they were allowed to incorporate their old beliefs from Christianity and Judaism into Islam to such an extent that the practised Islam of today is often a verbatim manifestation of the Bible. None of these Biblical teachings were known to the Prophet and they cannot be found in the Qur'an at all but the scholars of Islam are unanimous in accepting these beliefs as part of Islam today.The punishment of stoning to death for adultery, the punishment of stoning to death for apostasy, aal of these are all derived from the Christian and Jewish Scriptures. This list is by no means exhaustive. These beliefs are not found anywhere in the Qur'an which is in fact the earliest and only teaching of Prophet Muhammad (S). But these teachings can be found in very exact detail in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Scriptures. The Christian West should, therefore, credit it to the great tolerance and absorption of the early scholars and generations of the Muslim Ummah, many of whom were converts from Christianity and Judaism, that they were able to bring with them a vast spectrum of Christian and Jewish beliefs which were accepted and are practised by Muslims as part of Islam today. Therefore, there is no need for the Judeo-Christian world to be apprehensive about Islam. Our common heritage should bind us together instead of dividing us.
PUNISHMENT FOR ADULTERY
The recent cases of stoning women to death for adultery in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are laws that are not from the Qur'an. God and the Prophet never taught Muslims to stone anyone to death as part of the Shariah Law. The words Shariah Law are not even mentioned in the Qur'an. The truth is the law for stoning to death as punishment for adultery is taken from the Bible.The Bible states explicitly
Deut 2220 - 21 But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. 2222 If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel. 2223-24 If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.Hence the law of stoning people to death is Biblical which has been accepted by the Muslims who came after the Prophet as evidence of a great tolerance in Islam for absorbing and upholding Biblical teachings. The Christian West should not hold the Muslim Ummah in disgust for upholding Biblical laws.
Lev 2010 If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
This is Biblical too. The Shariah Laws of Islam come from the Bible. What does the Quran say?
An-Nur 242 The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
Indeed the Qur'an prescribes a punishment for adultery. But the punishment meted out is a scourge of 100 lashes.
Source http//www.ourbeacon.com/truehistory.pdf
Muhammed Ali in his translation, commentary on verse 242
242 The adulteress and the adulterer,
flog each of them (with) a hundred
stripes,a and let not pity for them
detain you from obedience to All?h,
if you believe in All?h and the Last
Day, and let a party of believers witness
their chastisement.2a. Chastity, as a virtue, is not given the first place in modern civilized society, and
hence adultery is not considered a sufficiently serious offence to subject the guilty party
to any punishment except the payment of damages to the injured husband. The breach of
the greatest trust which can be imposed in a man or a woman, the breach which ruins
families, destroys household peace, and deprives innocent children of their loving mothers,
is not looked upon even as seriously as the breach of trust of a few pounds. Hence
the Islamic law seems to be too severe to a Westerner.The punishment for adultery is here stated to be flogging, not stoning to death, which
was really prescribed by the Jewish law. The cases of stoning to death for adultery by the
Prophets orders relate actually to a Jew and a Jewess in one case (B. 2361), and others
apparently occurred before the revelation of this chapter. That stoning to death was never
contemplated by Isl?m as a punishment for adultery is made clear by 425, where it is
stated expressly that the punishment for adultery in the case of slave-girls, when they are
married, is half the punishment which is inflicted on free married women, and stoning to
death could not be halved. Besides, the Qur?n nowhere speaks of stoning as a punishment
for adultery, and the report of what Umar said is self-contradictory. For a full
discussion, see the book The Religion of Isl?m, ch. Penal Laws of Islam.A few words may be added as to the method of flogging. It aimed more at disgracing the culprit than at torturing
him. In the time of the Prophet, and even for some time after him, there was no whip,
and flogging was carried out by beating with a stick or with the hand or with shoes. The
culprit was not stripped naked, but he was required to take off thick clothes.