Remembering the true nature of our enemy
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The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.
Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)
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Question
Peace Yusha
That is not the action to be meted out according to the quran as far as I am aware. If you've derived the punishment from the quran can you show me how?
JoeAnswer
The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.
Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)
Simple, Isn't it?
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what Bukhari has done to Ummah?.............Keep watching!.................. elektro
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
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Peace,
ab?ro?gate /?brget/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?verb (used with object), -gat?ed, -gat?ing. 1. to abolish by formal or official means; annul by an authoritative act; repeal to abrogate a law.
2. to put aside; put an end to.So, the qur'an was abrogated by a Persian some 250 years after it's deliverance. Nice! confused
Thankfully, the qur'an, with God's infinite wisdom, warned us of these claims - to clear any confusion for those who would listen...576 Say, ?Would you worship in place of Allah that which possesses no power of harm or benefit to you?? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.
378 Among them are those who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that you may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say, ?It is from Allah?, when it is not from Allah. They speak a lie concerning Allah, and they know it.
3150 Remember, only Allah is your MAULA (Master) and He is the Best of helpers.
3138 This is a clarification for the people, and a guidance and enlightenment for the righteous.
53 ...This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life.
638 "We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book."
1689 "We have revealed to you this book to provide EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING."
6114 "Shall I seek OTHER THAN GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?"
2533 And no question do they bring to you but We bring to you the Truth and the best explanation.and the clincher...
316 And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.Peace,
Tay -
Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.
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And who says that the last two verses of Surah at-Tauba are fabrications? (God forbid)
Now I hope you can see what it means. Both allegations claim that the quraan is not to be trusted..true verses disappear, false verses appear...What else? Oh, yeh, verses abrogated by hadiths, by actions of the prophet, verses withheld , others tied to some events. Why on earth would I call such an untrustworthy book divine or even study it ?
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You have just contradicted yourself brother RasulHamsa, though I do not know if it was intentional or not.
But how brother Yusha?
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Excluding verses from surah tauba is another crap. May God not forbid that.
You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?
This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life
This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.
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You dissaprove of excluding verses from surah Tauba, than you say in the very next breadth that may God NOT forbid that. But why would you invoke God not to forbid something which you yourself dissaprove of?
Because of the suffering of the ummah for more than 1000 years elektro
And for the following reasons as well
621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.
737 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters.
1017 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
6945 We should certainly seize him by right hand, - And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
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Peace,
abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on
Says Yusha. I'm sorry, but your word holds no weight in comparison to that of God. Nor was Bukhari given any authority to do such a thing. I'd be weary of this if I were you.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
For those who still have doubt
Complete
- having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; whole; entire; full a complete set of Mark Twain's writings.
- finished; ended; concluded a complete orbit.
Perfect
- conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman.
- excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect.
- exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting out keyholes.
- entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings a perfect apple; the perfect crime.
- accurate, exact, or correct in every detail a perfect copy.
- thorough; complete; utter perfect strangers.
- pure or unmixed perfect yellow.
- unqualified; absolute He has perfect control over his followers.
This Day, I have PERFECTED your Deen for you, COMPLETED My favor upon you, and chosen for you Islam as the System of Life(53)
Can it be any more clear?
Peace,
Tay*edited to add verse
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This was the last verse to be revealed in the Holy Quran, and after it, Islam was completed, including the Holy Quran, and therefore, no more abrogation of verses, one by the other, or abrogation of Quran by sunnat or vice versa, or abrogation of sunnat by another sunnat could take place from that point on.
Am I understanding you correctly? You do not believe in abrogation?
Doesn't the same "missing verse" abrogate the verse we have for the punishment of adultrers? Speak of contradictions!!
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Am I understanding you correctly? You do not believe in abrogation?
Let me clarify Allah revealed the injunctions of Islam to humanity in stages. The law which he gave to Prophet Noah (alaihi salaam), known as the Seven Noachide Laws, were abrogated when He revealed the Torah to Moses (alaihi salaam), at least for the Israelites it was abrogated. Then when Allah sent the Last and Final Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) He revealed the final law, which is the Holy Quran.
But the revelation of the Holy Quran was very unique. All the previous scriptures were revealed at once, but the Holy Quran was revealed in stages
It is We Who have sent down the Qur'an to thee by stages (7623)
The laws of Islam were revealed gradually in stages. For example, Islam first forbade approaching salaat while in a state of intoxication. Then, the revelation came which unconditionally forbade any intoxication under any circumstances. Then when the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to convey Islam and the final covenant for humanity was completed, Allah revealed the verse that He has perfected the deen and completed it. Then after that, there is no more need for abrogation, everything has been completed and perfected.
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Then when the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) to convey Islam and the final covenant for humanity was completed, Allah revealed the verse that He has perfected the deen and completed it. Then after that, there is no more need for abrogation, everything has been completed and perfected.
so where does sunna and hadith fit in ?
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Peace to all,
Jankren, I watched the videos you posted and your comment about how these pwople are commiting evil in the name of Islam, so I did a little research. The video you posted is not of traditional Muslims killing a girl for dating a person of another religion, it is actually a 17 year old Kurdish girl that was a Yazidi, who started dating a Sunni Muslim, it was her parents and people of her former religion the Yazidi who attacked her and stoned her to death for dating a Muslim, so your whole argument is backwards. The Yazidi are a pre Islamic religion of mixed Jewish, Zoroastrianism, and other beliefs. It was the Yazidi who killed their own 17 year old girl by stoning her to death, and they did it because she converted to Islam and started dating a Sunni Muslim. Notice in the article how a group of Sunni Muslims retaliated against the Yazidi by stopping a bus and letting all the christians go, then they shot the Yazidis.
Oh well, the damage is already done, this video is posted everywhere and everyone says its proof of how evil the muslims are.
Ps, sister Honor, I can understand how upset this has made you as a woman seeing such sickening violence being committed against a woman, I couldnt even watch the whole video, violence literally makes me sick to witness. Lets just remember who it is that committed this act of evil, it wasnt the traditional Muslims.
http//news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2519070.ece
Kurt
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Peace Ironsky,
Thanks for posting that. It's interesting how the reactions were on these videos. I mean, for sure, it's sickening, it doesn't matter if it's religious, political or just thuggery that instigated the situation, it's just horrible. But... having said that, most here instantly believed believed both videos, both atrocities were committed by traditional muslims, that wasn't even a question. While I wasn't sure about the first one, if you saw my post earlier I had pointed out a correction on the second one without the need to go into too much research. They weren't traditional muslims either.
Again, I'm glad you posted that. I think it gives insight to how we think. Not to change the subject, but it reminded me of how as soon as soon as the second plane hit the second tower on 9/11, most people (including myself) believed it was OBL/Al Qaeda... mainly because we had been conditioned for a few years before that, that it was OBL's signature to conduct mulitple attacks at the same time.
peace
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peace yusha,
The punishment for ADULTERY is stoning to death. Fornication is pre-marital relations, whereas adultery is extramarital relations, the latter being far worse obviously, and definitely deserving of execution.
That?s your opinion bro and you are entitled to it, but according to my personal judgment this idea of ?stoning to death? may have been the innovation of Sultans/Nawabs, who wanted to control their harems of beautiful women through terror?And God knows how many time people in power have used such punishment to get rid of their political and other rivals, or for some other personal gain.
This is not the punishment prescribe in Quran for adultery.
According to my understanding, Killing is permissible under two conditions only
On that account We ordained for the Children of Israel THAT IF ANY ONE SLEW A PERSON - unless it be for MURDER or for SPREADING MISCHIEF in the land - IT WOULD BE AS IF HE SLEW THE WHOLE PEOPLE and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. 532.
peace