question about Al-Fatiha
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salaam
to each his own, indeed. and perhaps we all can ponder upon this understanding;
- In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate Mercy.
- Praised be Allah, the Lord of knowledge.
- The Compassionate Mercy; 4. reigning the principle of time.
- Only You we serve; with You we have a recourse.
- Guide us on the honorable path; 7. the path of those You made pleasant upon them; not the objects of anger, nor the misguided.
peace
joe -
Salam,
Aalem------- everything , all creation.
Aalim------- All knowing.so , is it Aalemeen or Aalimeen?
peace
siki
It is my understanding that the only difference is in the diacriticals which are not in the original Quran. So I try to stay true to the original meaning of the root as closely as possible. the root ayn-lam-meem in arabic means "to know." I believe with the ya and nun added this would make the root plural. So my understanding is that the word would be knowledge plural or knowledges (which would be improper English grammar) or all knowledge. Something close to that anyway.
And the definition above makes sense to me.
As Allah is all knowing.There is another root for creation so I think logically ayn-lam-meem cannot be confused with the other root. If "creation" or "beings" were to be meant then the roots for those words would have been used.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
It is my understanding that the only difference is in the diacriticals which are not in the original Quran. So I try to stay true to the original meaning of the root as closely as possible. the root ayn-lam-meem in arabic means "to know." I believe with the ya and nun added this would make the root plural. So my understanding is that the word would be knowledge plural or knowledges (which would be improper English grammar) or all knowledge. Something close to that anyway.
And the definition above makes sense to me.
As Allah is all knowing.There is another root for creation so I think logically ayn-lam-meem cannot be confused with the other root. If "creation" or "beings" were to be meant then the roots for those words would have been used.
Salam,
ArnabAs you say, without diacriticals, there wont be a difference between the two plurals 3alimeen (knowledgeable people) and 3alameen (creation, worlds). But with the help of context, and/or commonsene, we can make the better choice.
If we choose "3alimeen" knowledgeable, would it mean that God is not the Lord of the unknowledgeable?
We also have in other verses "Lord of the heavens and the earth". This, I think, is nearer to (beings/creation/worlds) than to (knowledge/knowledgeable)
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Salam Samia,
As you say, without diacriticals, there wont be a difference between the two plurals 3alimeen (knowledgeable people) and 3alameen (creation, worlds). But with the help of context, and/or commonsene, we can make the better choice.
If we choose "3alimeen" knowledgeable, would it mean that God is not the Lord of the unknowledgeable?
We also have in other verses "Lord of the heavens and the earth". This, I think, is nearer to (beings/creation/worlds) than to (knowledge/knowledgeable)Please re-read what I posted.
I translate ayn-lam-meem to mean "to know" or "all knowledge"
not the possesors of knowledge (such as knowledgable people or creation).
Salam,
Arnab -
peace Arnab, all,
I think if you are going to give a meaning for a word, and you are ignoring the diacritical markings, then please make it clear to the forum, especially to the person who asked the question. In this case, I was unaware Arnab was not using the diacritical markings, hence my reply.
Furthermore, I do not believe there is only one root = one unique meaning. Having reviewed several hundred roots in a fair amount of detail for PRL, I do not see this thinking as valid at all.
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Salam Wakas,
Furthermore, I do not believe there is only one root = one unique meaning. Having reviewed several hundred roots in a fair amount of detail for PRL, I do not see this thinking as valid at all.
I agree that a root can have several meanings but they all center around the same main idea usually. And I try to stick to the purest definition of the root which limits the differences in the definitions. I also like to study the history of the word in the semitic languages to discover a richer meaning of the word. I try to stay away from evolved meanings in Arabic.
Salam,
Arnab -
peace
i have a question about al-fatiha
what is the correct way to translate 12 Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameenais it "Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds"?
or "All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds"?
or "You, Allah, the Lord of the Worlds, we praise"?"All praise is due to Allah, the Robb of the universe.
Robb is the only Creator, Rules and Laws Maker, Controller, Giving Knowlegdes
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unseen doesn't mean unknown... unless you either don't know about the wind or have seen the wind.
look at it this way... either it is speakin towards god being the lord of everything we know, which would mean he is the lord of everything we encounter as our knowledge expands... or god is the lord of everything god knows
you're welcome to come up with a better meaning that utilises the meaning of the root 'lm as opposed to "lord of the universe" or "lord of the creation" but that's what i have for now )
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Peace all,
"Rabb" is sustainer/nourisher which implies a material subject which needs to be sustained or nourished. All knowledge is already possessed by The God; He does not have to sustain or nourish it. Sustainer/nourisher of all beings/creation makes more sense, because beings/creation need to be nourished and sustained.
The primary significance of "rabb" is "bringing a thing to a state of completion by degrees", which implies an evolving process. The God already has and always had all knowledge in its entirety, and He does not need to bring it to a state of completion by degrees, which would imply an imperfect God to start with.
One can say that "rabb" can also mean "owner/master" but that is not its primary meaning.
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peace Tanveer, all,
Nice pick up on the "rabb" implication. I have "AAalameena" as creations/beings. Contrary to what some might think, this meaning is perfectly in coherence with the core theme of the root. The following is a quote from PRL (emphasis mine)
Ayn-Lam-Miim = to mark/sign/distinguish, creations/beings, world, science/learning/knowledge/information, aware/know. By means of which one knows a thing, hence it signifies world or creation, because by it the Creator is known. alim (pl. ulama) - one who is learned/wise or knows.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
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tanveer perhaps god is bringing the knowledge to completion in degrees for us, and it has nothing to do with what god knows, but what god reveals to us as knowledge.
if that implies an imperfect god for you then i can't really help what it implies for you, that's something you have to answer for... suddenly bringing up some sort of implication of imperfection... is that the first thing you see? or is it merely an argument to try and dissuade from thinking different than your own, by stating that those who think thusly are implying imperfection?
thanks wakas i will consider what you said... but does it literally mean creation, or does it mean creation by way of relation, ie because creation is that by which we come to know then creation is related to the root... does the root truly hold this meaning? i don't know... anyways at least you said somethin when you saw somethin goin on and contributed... thanks!
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Found it
2623-24
Transliteration Qala firAAawnu wama rabbu alAAalameena
Literal Pharaoh said "And what (is) the creations all together's/(universes' Lord?"
Free-Minds Pharaoh said "And what is the Lord of the worlds?"Transliteration Qala rabbu alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma in kuntum mooqineena
Literal He (Moses) said "Lord (of) the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth, and what (is) between them (B), if youwere sure/certain."
Free-Minds He said "The Lord of the heavens and the Earth and all that is between them, if you are aware." -
so is that answering what is 'alamiyn or saying that rabb al 'alamiyn is the same thing as the rabb of all the other stuff?
i don't know, nothin to make too big of an issue of considering all the other translations that need to be fixed hahaha
thanks for the posts wakas
