Remembering the true nature of our enemy
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Agree with Samia. There is no relativity involved here. One revelation that is supposedly accepted by all yet conveniently ignored.
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The recitation of the verse of rajm was abrogated, but its ruling is still applicable.
Hazrat Umar (ra) said No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Quran), and among what was revealed, was the Verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning adulterers to death). (Sahih Bukhari)
Now, this "hadith" belongs to Omar, not to the prophet, so it is not a prophetic saying, but a "omaric" one. Does God say "obey the companions"?
Also, what was the prophet doing losing verses? Isn't it his job to deliver? Do you imply that he was not that honest or careful? Or is this a result of him being "illiterate" he did not know what was written and what was missing? What an insult to the prophet!! You should be ashamed of what you believe.
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Now, this "hadith" belongs to Omar, not to the prophet, so it is not a prophetic saying, but a "omaric" one. Does God say "obey the companions"?
Also, what was the prophet doing losing verses? Isn't it his job to deliver? Do you imply that he was not that honest or careful? Or is this a result of him being "illiterate" he did not know what was written and what was missing? What an insult to the prophet!! You should be ashamed of what you believe.
Allah is the one who causes verses to be forgotten, which are part of His own plan.
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)
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Allah is the one who causes verses to be forgotten, which are part of His own plan.
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)
Just great! God causes the verse to be forgotten, but Omar remembers it brickwall
According to this hadith, it seems that neither the prophet nor his lord are doing a good job! Omar beat them both and Bukhari beat the hell out of muslims.And what, in your opinion, was the better or similar substitution, or any substitution of this alleged lost-and-found verse?
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Just great! God causes the verse to be forgotten, but Omar remembers it
Allah caused the WORDING of the verse to be forgotten. Even Hazrat Omar (ra) did not remember the wording of the ayatur rajm. However, he was among many of the sahaba who were witnesses to the tanzil of Holy Quran, and he knew for a fact that a verse commanding stoning to death for adultery had indeed been revealed in the Holy Quran, though he did not remember the wording of the verse (which is why it isnt found in the Holy Quran), because the wording was caused to be forgotten/abrogated by Allah (though the ruling of the verse still applies).
So I suggest you consult the following resource to learn more about this matter
http//qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1856&CATE=1 -
Allah caused the WORDING of the verse to be forgotten. Even Hazrat Omar (ra) did not remember the wording of the ayatur rajm. However, he was among many of the sahaba who were witnesses to the tanzil of Holy Quran, and he knew for a fact that a verse commanding stoning to death for adultery had indeed been revealed in the Holy Quran, though he did not remember the wording of the verse (which is why it isnt found in the Holy Quran), because the wording was caused to be forgotten/abrogated by Allah (though the ruling of the verse still applies).
So I suggest you consult the following resource to learn more about this matter
http//qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1856&CATE=1Unfortunately your link uses only hadith as proof, and since those cannot be trusted they fail to prove anything. All we can know for sure is that the Quran does not have in it any verses telling us to stone adulterers therefor it should not be done.
Peace,
Nurd
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Dear brother, I am using the HOLY QURAN to justify my arguments and beliefs. Please go through my posts and see the sheer number of verses which I have quoted.
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Allah is the one who causes verses to be forgotten, which are part of His own plan.
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)
Wait, because before the "do We abrogate" is written "None of Our revelations". This means it talks about revelations, books, right? Then we have "but We substitute something better or similar" This means the stoning have been subsitued to something better or similar, right?
Tell me if 'im wrong here please.
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Wait, because before the "do We abrogate" is written "None of Our revelations". This means it talks about revelations, books, right? Then we have "but We substitute something better or similar" This means the stoning have been subsitued to something better or similar, right?
Tell me if 'im wrong here please.
Good point, Yosemite. You do not bring a new verse in order to abrogate it by an older one! Why the trouble in the first place?
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Wait, because before the "do We abrogate" is written "None of Our revelations". This means it talks about revelations, books, right? Then we have "but We substitute something better or similar" This means the stoning have been subsitued to something better or similar, right?
Tell me if 'im wrong here please.
The wording of the verse of stoning has been caused to be forgotten (by Allah). It has been replaced by something similar, which is found in the Ahadeeth.
but We substitute something better or similar
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Unless I'm reading that verse wrong
Yes, you're reading it wrong. Here is the full verse in English
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)
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Yes, you're reading it wrong. Here is the full verse in English
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)
I can see the words here, but I cannot understand how it is you can interpret it the way you do.
God does not cause revelations to be abrogated or forgotten. Sometimes though we will substitute something better.
So your interpretation that god caused a verse to be forgotten so that it could be substituted by hadith goes completely against the words you are quoting from the Quran.
Peace,
Nurd
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This is why people should have some knowledge of Arabic when understanding the Holy Quran. If you interpret it strictly from English rendering you are bound to have misconceptions. So let me provide you with alternative English translations of the same verse
Such of Our revelations as We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? (2106 PICKTALL)
Any message which We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything? (2106 ASAD)
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Peace,
I think this verse is not talking about books. It's talking about signs of this universe. When a certain knowledge is lost, a new one takes it's place.
The truth always remains the same, and it always survives (as part of this creation). The truth can't be abrogated or taken away, obviously.