Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. Remembering the true nature of our enemy

Remembering the true nature of our enemy

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
115 Posts 25 Posters 6.3k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • G Offline
    G Offline
    Ghulam_Rasool
    wrote on last edited by
    #94

    Just great! God causes the verse to be forgotten, but Omar remembers it

    Allah caused the WORDING of the verse to be forgotten. Even Hazrat Omar (ra) did not remember the wording of the ayatur rajm. However, he was among many of the sahaba who were witnesses to the tanzil of Holy Quran, and he knew for a fact that a verse commanding stoning to death for adultery had indeed been revealed in the Holy Quran, though he did not remember the wording of the verse (which is why it isnt found in the Holy Quran), because the wording was caused to be forgotten/abrogated by Allah (though the ruling of the verse still applies).

    So I suggest you consult the following resource to learn more about this matter
    http//qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1856&CATE=1

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Nurd
      wrote on last edited by
      #95

      Allah caused the WORDING of the verse to be forgotten. Even Hazrat Omar (ra) did not remember the wording of the ayatur rajm. However, he was among many of the sahaba who were witnesses to the tanzil of Holy Quran, and he knew for a fact that a verse commanding stoning to death for adultery had indeed been revealed in the Holy Quran, though he did not remember the wording of the verse (which is why it isnt found in the Holy Quran), because the wording was caused to be forgotten/abrogated by Allah (though the ruling of the verse still applies).

      So I suggest you consult the following resource to learn more about this matter
      http//qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1856&CATE=1

      Unfortunately your link uses only hadith as proof, and since those cannot be trusted they fail to prove anything. All we can know for sure is that the Quran does not have in it any verses telling us to stone adulterers therefor it should not be done.

      Peace,

      Nurd

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Z Offline
        Z Offline
        zenje
        wrote on last edited by
        #96

        Peace Nurd and all,

        Yusha has been warned about this issue. If he is to talk about hadith he is supposed to be doing it in the appropriate section on this board.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • G Offline
          G Offline
          Ghulam_Rasool
          wrote on last edited by
          #97

          Dear brother, I am using the HOLY QURAN to justify my arguments and beliefs. Please go through my posts and see the sheer number of verses which I have quoted.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Z Offline
            Z Offline
            zenje
            wrote on last edited by
            #98

            I have gone through your posts just today, the one here with the link, the other one in the Latest news section, where you quote a verse which is fine, and then you continue to validate your point with hadith.

            Peace

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • P Offline
              P Offline
              phoenix1
              wrote on last edited by
              #99

              Peace
              well, I don't think the "revelatiions" in 2106 is referring to verses but doesn't it say that god does not allow revelations to be forgotten?

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Y Offline
                Y Offline
                Yosemite
                wrote on last edited by
                #100

                Allah is the one who causes verses to be forgotten, which are part of His own plan.

                None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)

                Wait, because before the "do We abrogate" is written "None of Our revelations". This means it talks about revelations, books, right? Then we have "but We substitute something better or similar" This means the stoning have been subsitued to something better or similar, right?

                Tell me if 'im wrong here please.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • S Offline
                  S Offline
                  Samia
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #101

                  Wait, because before the "do We abrogate" is written "None of Our revelations". This means it talks about revelations, books, right? Then we have "but We substitute something better or similar" This means the stoning have been subsitued to something better or similar, right?

                  Tell me if 'im wrong here please.

                  Good point, Yosemite. You do not bring a new verse in order to abrogate it by an older one! Why the trouble in the first place?

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    Ghulam_Rasool
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #102

                    Wait, because before the "do We abrogate" is written "None of Our revelations". This means it talks about revelations, books, right? Then we have "but We substitute something better or similar" This means the stoning have been subsitued to something better or similar, right?

                    Tell me if 'im wrong here please.

                    The wording of the verse of stoning has been caused to be forgotten (by Allah). It has been replaced by something similar, which is found in the Ahadeeth.

                    but We substitute something better or similar

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • P Offline
                      P Offline
                      phoenix1
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #103

                      Yusha, 2106 says that NONE of the revelations are abrogated or caused to be forgotten. They are NOT abrogated or caused to be forgotten by god. Unless I'm reading that verse wrong.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • S Offline
                        S Offline
                        Samia
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #104

                        The wording of the verse of stoning has been caused to be forgotten (by Allah). It has been replaced by something similar, which is found in the Ahadeeth.

                        but We substitute something better or similar

                        And the substitute is?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • G Offline
                          G Offline
                          Ghulam_Rasool
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #105

                          Unless I'm reading that verse wrong

                          Yes, you're reading it wrong. Here is the full verse in English

                          None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • N Offline
                            N Offline
                            Nurd
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #106

                            Yes, you're reading it wrong. Here is the full verse in English

                            None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (2106)

                            I can see the words here, but I cannot understand how it is you can interpret it the way you do.

                            God does not cause revelations to be abrogated or forgotten. Sometimes though we will substitute something better.

                            So your interpretation that god caused a verse to be forgotten so that it could be substituted by hadith goes completely against the words you are quoting from the Quran.

                            Peace,

                            Nurd

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • G Offline
                              G Offline
                              Ghulam_Rasool
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #107

                              This is why people should have some knowledge of Arabic when understanding the Holy Quran. If you interpret it strictly from English rendering you are bound to have misconceptions. So let me provide you with alternative English translations of the same verse

                              Such of Our revelations as We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? (2106 PICKTALL)

                              Any message which We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything? (2106 ASAD)

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • P Offline
                                P Offline
                                phoenix1
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #108

                                Peace,
                                I think this verse is not talking about books. It's talking about signs of this universe. When a certain knowledge is lost, a new one takes it's place.
                                The truth always remains the same, and it always survives (as part of this creation). The truth can't be abrogated or taken away, obviously.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  Samia
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #109

                                  This is why people should have some knowledge of Arabic when understanding the Holy Quran.

                                  You are absolutely right. If they know Arabic, they will know that "nasakha" means to copy, not to abrogate.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • P Offline
                                    P Offline
                                    phoenix1
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #110

                                    Peace Samia,
                                    I don't think the verse makes much sense that way. Could you translate the whole verse?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • A Offline
                                      A Offline
                                      AaRoN
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #111

                                      yes samia please do! D

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        Samia
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #112

                                        Rough translation

                                        Any verse We copy/confirm or make forgotton We bring one similar to it or better.

                                        Copied/confirmed bring similar
                                        Make forgotten bring better

                                        Any rule in previous Revelations that was confirmed has been copied in the quraan
                                        What has been forgotten is replaced by a better one

                                        So we do not need to search for the original past scripts. We have what is confirmed of them.

                                        Also, the verb "nasakha" or its derivatives is mentioned four times in the quraan, all in this meaning.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • A Offline
                                          A Offline
                                          AaRoN
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #113

                                          thank you very much samia... yet another translation by many that is blown right out of the water

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users