Got som important Questions about Adultery?
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It definitely applies to all public acts of fornication/adultery. There is a thread on this somewhere, a search should bring it up.
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Peace,
Ok, I'm not sure if the punishment is same for adulters and for fornicators though but as we know it takes 4 witness to be put in the judge.
But that doesn't matters if it comes to the punishments of God, God can punish whosoever he wants and we shall fear God and act in a good manner, try to avoid bad behaviour and immorality.
But I know that they punish in many so called muslim countries all who have illegal sex it doesn't matter if they are married or not.
I also want to know if Quran differ among adulters and fornicators when it comes to punishment.
Peace
Maria -
"Free women" is from Shakir's Quran translation (my favorite thus far). Similarly, the progressive Muslim translation gives it as "independent women", again not chaste. However, I have seen it translated as "chaste" or "honorable" in other sources. But the fact is, a "chaste" woman would still imply that she is unmarried, and thus "free" (as I guess being married is equated with being enslaved? lol).
We debated this "Mohsannat" thing in detail, It is a general term used for chaste women, , this definition fits in all relevent verses of Quran specially this one , where there is absolutely no ambiguity about they being the chaste women.All other definitions are imperfect, and some are Non sense.
Intrested in more , read this thread. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13799.0
"Shakir" has probably a better translation than the rest, and is my favourite too,. But here , unfortunately he has gone wrong.
peace
siki
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Salaam all
How do you define a woman who is not chaste? Examples will be appreciated.
Engaging in zina rotfl P
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Engaging in zina rotfl P
Yeah exactly but she can repent and become chaste. God is merciful!!!!
Maria
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Engaging in zina rotfl P
That's all? Then ALL women are chaste until seen by 4 people at least...
Yeah exactly but she can repent and become chaste. God is merciful!!!!
...then she returns to the pool. Not really a classification that calls for a special way of dealing with a category of women. I mean in the verse 244 it suffies to say "Those who accuse women and do not bring 4 witnesses...", because even the zaania is included in these women UNTIL 4 witnesses are presented.
In short, "mu7sanaat" meaning "chaste" does not hold water in any verse.
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That's all? Then ALL women are chaste until seen by 4 people at least...
...then she returns to the pool. Not really a classification that calls for a special way of dealing with a category of women. I mean in the verse 244 it suffies to say "Those who accuse women and do not bring 4 witnesses...", because even the zaania is included in these women UNTIL 4 witnesses are presented.
In short, "mu7sanaat" meaning "chaste" does not hold water in any verse.
My dear sister samia ! May i have your permission to modify your above statement in red, and change it to ,, "A sweeping statement does not hold any water "
Do i dare ask your Majesty to kindly enlighten ! me/us with your version of Mohsinnats, in 24-4 ? eat eat
siki
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How many people committing adultery have 4 witnesses to it?!?!
Maybe its not about adultery but about slander. It could have been made to prevent slander and gossip and stop people who have seen the act to report the act. Since they have to bring 3 other witnesses or else they get smacked.
But what about pregnancy outside marriage?
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My dear sister samia ! May i have your permission to modify your above statement in red, and change it to ,, "A sweeping statement does not hold any water "
Do i dare ask your Majesty to kindly enlighten ! me/us with your version of Mohsinnats, in 24-4 ? eat eat
siki
We start by showing what a word is not.. and we leave the humble subjects to come up with a better understanding.
And who dared make the statement "sweeping" if we did not permit that? Throw them to the lions .. >D
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We start by showing what a word is not.. and we leave the humble subjects to come up with a better understanding.
And who dared make the statement "sweeping" if we did not permit that? Throw them to the lions .. >
Your wish is my command, Madam! hail
And the ones who accuse the Free women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, > ignore
And the one who accuse Married women of adultery, and then fail to produce 4 witness,,,
And the ones who accuse the protected women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, o yuck
And the ones who accuse the self protected women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, -[ ???
And the ones who accuse the engaged protected women of adultry ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, P confused
And the ones who accuse the honorable women of adultry ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, '( brickwall
And the ones who accuse the independent women of adultry ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, hypno elektro
voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo
Your Majestey ! pr Now, if you promise to spare my life, & by retracting your last command of "throwing me to the lions", i would humbly re-submit my original plea, for your kind reconsideration,once again please, hail please ?
And the ones who accuse the chaste women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,,
bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
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Your wish is my command, Madam! hail
And the ones who accuse the Free women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, >( ignore
And the one who accuse Married women of adultery, and then fail to produce 4 witness,,, (
And the ones who accuse the protected women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, yuck
And the ones who accuse the self protected women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, -[ ???
And the ones who accuse the engaged protected women of adultry ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, confused
And the ones who accuse the honorable women of adultry ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, '( brickwall
And the ones who accuse the independent women of adultry ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,, hypno elektro
voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo voodoo
Your Majestey ! pr Now, if you promise to spare my life, & by retracting your last command of "throwing me to the lions", i would humbly re-submit my original plea, for your kind reconsideration,once again please, hail please ?
And the ones who accuse the chaste women of adultery ,and then fail to produce 4 witnesses,,,,
bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo bravo
Don't clap yet...We did not give permission or approval.
Good start.
Now think (it feels good to give orders to think ;D) of who would not be affected / naturally protected if accused of fornication.. ;D..
those will be the opposite of mu7sanaat -
Maybe its not about adultery but about slander. It could have been made to prevent slander and gossip and stop people who have seen the act to report the act. Since they have to bring 3 other witnesses or else they get smacked.
But what about pregnancy outside marriage?
Maybe it's both? A lot of these punishments have more than one single effect. And I think pregnancy outside of marriage would be included, why not?. All you would need is 4 doctors as witnesses, with DNA evidence.
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Don't clap yet...We did not give permission or approval.
Good start.
Now think (it feels good to give orders to think ;D) of who would not be affected / naturally protected if accused of fornication.. ;D..
those will be the opposite of mu7sanaatWhat's your understanding of it?
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Maybe it's both? P A lot of these punishments have more than one single effect. And I think pregnancy outside of marriage would be included, why not?. All you would need is 4 doctors as witnesses, with DNA evidence.
I don't think pregnancy is to be considered as evidence, although it is evidence against fornication (do we have a punishment for that?) but not evidence for public sex. Moreover, public sex requires 4 witnesses, unlike any other matter that requires two or even one witness. Any hard evidence is counted at most as two witnesses (as in other cases requiring witnesses). It can't be accepyed in lieu of 4 witnesses. (this is my own fatwa jedi)
The anology is drawn with pregnancy withing the marriage but from other than the husband. If it took place after at least six months of marriage, it belongs to the hsband and no tests are admitted. This is for the protection of the child, not the mother.
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Don't clap yet...We did not give permission or approval.
Good start.
Now think (it feels good to give orders to think ;D) of who would not be affected / naturally protected if accused of fornication.. ;D..
those will be the opposite of mu7sanaatYour Majesty! pr
This being Ayman's invention, I had a plan to engage eat him on this, but you got yourself into it , yes ok, Never mind. jedi
To start with,
hail could you try and list your protected category for me? and how are they protected? ignore
Additionally,
which is the other unprotected category, and why is it OK to accuse them ? ???
siki
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We never said it is OK to attack someone. We said they are not affected and they are naturally protected, naturally being "by nature" not "of course".
I know you know whom I mean, because I mentioned this twice before, one of them being on your very thread of mohsanaat (or was it MMA?).
Well, think of the
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impotent, primarily or secondary to an ailment; hermaphrodites and other congenital anomaly (such as blocked vagina), amputee (by accident or by pathology) (the can't have sex);
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bereaved psychologically (who had a horrible experience in their early years such as molested or raped children) or emotionally (death of partner/love); homosexual or people who are not attracted to the opposite sex; frigid (the don't want to have sex).
These categories represent at least 30% of any population. Those are the non mu7San.
I should also add to the second category nuns and monks.
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We never said it is OK to attack someone. We said they are not affected and they are naturally protected, naturally being "by nature" not "of course".
I know you know whom I mean, because I mentioned this twice before, one of them being on your very thread of mohsanaat (or was it MMA?).
Well, think of the
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impotent, primarily or secondary to an ailment; hermaphrodites and other congenital anomaly (such as blocked vagina), amputee (by accident or by pathology) (the can't have sex);
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bereaved psychologically (who had a horrible experience in their early years such as molested or raped children) or emotionally (death of partner/love); homosexual or people who are not attracted to the opposite sex; frigid (the don't want to have sex).
These categories represent at least 30% of any population. Those are the non mu7San.
I should also add to the second category nuns and monks.
Your Majesty! pr
I am so '( ashamed while declaring , "I did not nope make any sense hmm of your posts "Then" , and "Even now";, ??? I would humbly hail request to kindly elaborate/re-word your opinion, so that the Royal command is under stood in its true essence. And if some "Darbari" attending the royal court has understood Her Majesty's sermon, he may kindly relay the message in commoners language handshake
siki
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