Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!

siki

salaam
Why do you call them "slaves" ? Why are all of you applying them today when they do not exist .
MMA = what is their nature and status according to quran ?
Regards

We are not applying , we are all quran students like you, we are only studying Quran. Do you want us to abrogate all verses containing MMA?

Tlepsh

Peace Samia,
Please correct any mistakes you may find in my post above Thanks in advance.

Q_student

We are not applying , we are all quran students like you, we are only studying Quran. Do you want us to abrogate all verses containing MMA?

Please first answer my question.
What is the exact nature of MMA according to Quran? Unless their nature is established ,how we can now that is applicable today or not ?
Regards

siki

Thelps

By the way , you are missing one , in 4-22. wives of your fathers.

siki

Please first answer my question.
What is the exact nature of MMA according to Quran? Unless their nature is established ,how we can now that is applicable today or not ?
Regards

How about you doing some work , and aprising us all ?

siki

Please first answer my question.
What is the exact nature of MMA according to Quran? Unless their nature is established ,how we can now that is applicable today or not ?
Regards

Tell me something , Do you salat?

Q_student

Tell me something , Do you salat?

Salaam
What salaat has to do with MMA ?
I do not understand.Would you please tell me their relationship ?
Regards

siki

Thelps and company!

) So you guys think that quran is full of instructions regarding gender neutral, and hardly any for normal people?

unknownuser

Salaam
What salaat has to do with MMA ?
I do not understand.Would you please tell me their relationship ?
Regards

You ask too many questions brother, sometimes people don't have any answer so you need to be patient with them and give them some more time. Discussion is going very well MashaAllah, we have many answers so far, and will have even more just give everyone some time to think.

Thanks

Q_student

You ask too many questions brother, sometimes people don't have any answer so you need to be patient with them and give them some more time. Discussion is going very well MashaAllah, we have many answers so far, and will have even more just give everyone some time to think.

Thanks

Salaam
No problem ,go ahead without establishing Quranic meanings of MMA.
Regards

siki

Salaam
No problem ,go ahead without establishing Quranic meanings of MMA.
Regards

Brother I am sure you must be carrying out salat regularly. So have you established the Koranic procedure of your salat? If not, then why are you carrying it out that way.

please ponder over what Rasulhamsa said.

regards
siki

Q_student

Brother I am sure you must be carrying out salat regularly. So have you established the Koranic procedure of your salat? If not, then why are you carrying it out that way.

please ponder over what Rasulhamsa said.

regards
siki

Salaam Brother
I am still confused about timings of salaat and its exact method.This thread has nothing to do with it.
Still my Question is
What is the Quranic meaning of MMA ?
Otherwise accept that you are using "Hadithi" meanings and go ahead.
Regards

unknownuser

Salaam Brother
I am still confused about timings of salaat and its exact method.This thread has nothing to do with it.
Still my Question is
What is the Quranic meaning of MMA ?
Otherwise accept that you are using "Hadithi" meanings and go ahead.
Regards

so is that quran which tells you that there should be a method of salaat or you are just try to find a method using "hadithi" meanings of salaat?

Thanks

Q_student

so is that quran which tells you that there should be a method of salaat or you are just try to find a method using "hadithi" meanings of salaat?

Thanks

Salaam
I am not obsessed by
1Hadiths
2Code 19
3Inscriptions
Alhamdulillahi ,I am a Quran student. If you can provide some information I will appreciate.

Note I think because you have no Quranic meanings of MMA ,go ahead with the concept ,the thread should not be derailed.
Regards

unknownuser

Salaam
I am not obsessed by
1Hadiths
2Code 19
3Inscriptions
Alhamdulillahi ,I am a Quran student. If you can provide some information I will appreciate.

Note I think because you have no Quranic meanings of MMA ,go ahead with the concept ,the thread should not be derailed.
Regards

I have no definite idea about MMA yet, if you have any please share your understanding with us.

Thanks

Q_student

I have no definite idea about MMA yet, if you have any please share your understanding with us.

Thanks

Salaam
I do not have either.That is why I am asking again and again.
Regards

siki

I believe this issue is covered in 'The Natural Republic' book
http//free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf

My copy is the 2004 edition, not the updated one.

Brother salam

Your recommended book contains a paragraph saying , "That quranic layal starts at last light, not at sun set" declaring, "practice of breaking fast at sun set wrong" .
Have you changed your understanding?

peace

siki

So what is opposite of Mohasana?

A 'Baghyia' or a prostitute?

So what is a 'Zanyia' -adulteress- then?

And what is a 'Fata' and why is they are sometimes used as the opposite group to 'Mohasanat'?

Can be 'fatayat' be prostitutes?!!

My mind is spinning!

Bigha means, wrong, Any wrong that one commits, the context would decide what it actually means at a certain place,

Bigha in sexual context, would mean, sexual wrongs, like fornication, adultery etc. Calling some one Baghia when the subject is her sexuality, would convey a meaning opposite to Mohsinna.

Bigha, in sexual context, to gain worldly means , would lock the meaning specific as "prostitution".

Zania , is most probably , A fahisha woman , confirmed by 4 witnesses, and hence Declared as Zania.

Adulterous, English meaning, "a woman who gets involved in extramarital sexual adventures", we do not have an Arabic equivalent in quran.

Fata, means young, 12-36 uses Fatayan , meaning two young men.

Fatayat means , "young females" nothing more, nothing less, and they are a sub set of Nissa. She could be a mohsinna or may be not, she could be a believing Mohsinna , or may be not, you could find her in every MMA sub categories. I fail to understand as to what is so difficult about it?

It is not being used as an opposite to mohsinnats, but being recommended as a specific alternate. lets see if God would not have used this word in 4-25,
We would have picked up any Mohsinna from MMA , Not necessarily a young and a believing one.

Your last inquiry, weather a fatyat can be a prostitute?
Why not she can be , any woman can be a prostitute, this is her choice, but 4-25 , specifically talks about the young ones under your guardian ship, that you should not do that for worldly gains. And if they are forced against their will, "God is telling them "Don'T worry babies", I understand your situation. I am forgiving most merciful.

siki

Samia

Thelps and company!

) So you guys think that quran is full of instructions regarding gender neutral, and hardly any for normal people?

Salaam siki

I do not understand what you mean by "gender neutral". If they are a sub category of those unable to have sex for a reason or another, then I would not say that the qur?an is "full"of instructions regarding them, but is not ignoring them when there's a relevant context, in this case marriage. Otherwise, they are the same as the whole community.

Samia

Peace Samia,
Please correct any mistakes you may find in my post above Thanks in advance.

Salaam Tlepsh, all

you put it in a neat and precise way. I hope others, before attacking, would try to find any contradiction between this understanding and the other contexts/instances where these words (muhsan/MMA) are mentioned. So far, a lot of contradiction in these meanings
MMA slaves; captives; fiancees; being only females
Muhsans married; unmarried; chaste; free; only females