Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!
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Salaam huruf
In my opinion, kitaballahi (in the accusative/ ) is an absolute accusative serving a purpose ( ). It's like the word "revenge/ in the following sentence He killed him in revenge (qatalahu-n-tiqaman/ ).
So would I be right to undderstand that it qualifies the "ma malakat aymanukum" and it would means something like "those your are rightfully entitled to by virtue of God's scripture"?
Thanks.
Salaam
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4-24 ----------seek them with your money , with an aim to maintain chastity, not fornicating, you must pay them their wages before you touch them , and when you have enjoyed them, there is no sin upon you what you both agree to. God is knowledgeable wise.
What I understand out of this is that "Prostitution is allowed" because,
commandment.
- You are to seek her with your money[/size
CONGRATULATIONS TO RED LIGHT AREA COMMUNITY FOR THIS QURANIC CERTIFICATE.
Regards -
Q_student's post reminded me of this thread.
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So would I be right to undderstand that it qualifies the "ma malakat aymanukum" and it would means something like "those your are rightfully entitled to by virtue of God's scripture"?
Thanks.
Salaam
Yes, it's about MMA and I believe your understanding is similar to what I understand too.
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Q_student's post reminded me of this thread.
Nadia!
salam,
D Good God, wasn't I pleasantly surprised (and a little ashamed) when I found you oldies much more civilised than what we are as a bunch today. You guys definitely had a higher threshold of tolerance for any non conforming understanding, and debated controversial issues with respect and open mind.
About the issue, what I found amazing was, "Not a single one of those few hundred posts" mentioned 4-24. Which in reality, is the commandment packed with evidence in favour of paid sex. On the other hand every one hoping over 24-33, which instead, cautions the guardian to desist forcing a young one for it, in case she doesn't want to.
peace
siki
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Thelps,
In your explanation of 24-33,
you say , "and the sexually disabled , out of these are seeking MMA".
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where is the sexually disabled word in aya 24-33? Or as you have imagined MMA to be sexually disabled, so any one looking for them , would automatically be sexually disabled one?
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Where is the daughter word in 24-33?
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And if they(fatayat) are forced for a sexless marriage, then why would be god forgiving most merciful?
siki
Thelps!
I am expecting answers for my above queries, please! apecially for the 3rd one.
siki
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Salam siki,
There are highs and lows on this forum.
I haven't studied the "prostitution is ok" scenario in the quran yet, but when I do, I'll def add my two bits.
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Yes he could. Does that somehow show that my understanding is un-Quranic?
Not at all, Bro, It must be God who could not fore see the repercussions arising from his commandment.
Ok, so you agree that my understanding is Quranic and you have no Quranic evidence against it. If so, we will move on to the rest of my summary, ok?
How about reading an even closer Koranic version ?.... ... recently posted by me,,,, stating ," Quran encourages prostitution"
We will come to that afterward.
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Salam siki,
There are highs and lows on this forum.
I haven't studied the "prostitution is ok" scenario in the quran yet, but when I do, I'll def add my two bits.
Peace
Probably Prostituites will be "rewarded " for high virtue job on the Day of Judgement.
Siki will also get share out of it.
Regards -
Peace Q_s
Peace
Probably Prostituites will be "rewarded " for high virtue job on the Day of Judgement.
Siki will also get share out of it.
RegardsI thought the "prostitutes" are well rewarded already in this world , do you think they will be sentenced to "Heaven" as well ? By the way , after 30 pages of discussions , are we any closer to " The Definition of Marriage and whether sex is permitted prior to it " ?
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace Q_s
I thought the "prostitutes" are well rewarded already in this world , do you think they will be sentenced to "Heaven" as well ? By the way , after 30 pages of discussions , are we any closer to " The Definition of Marriage and whether sex is permitted prior to it " ?
Peace
almarh0m
Peace dear
After 30 pages Siki's conclusion is well placed above. He has issued Quranic certificate for Prostitution.
Regards -
Peace Q_s
Peace dear
After 30 pages Siki's conclusion is well placed above. He has issued Quranic certificate for Prostitution.
RegardsJust when I thought Bukhari , Muslim , Abu Dawood et al have been discarded , no wonder that "Mu'tah Marriage" is alive and well in Saudi Arabia . When I was in Saudi , I was offered to marry up to 4 women at once at defferent "Rate of Dowry/AJR" , each woman I could have married from one week to a few months or forever . The differences in 'Rates of AJR' depends on where the women came from , Egyptian commanded 3000 Saudi Riyal , various south Asian women and South East Asian women range from 600 SA Riyal to 2500 . curiously , some African women are as cheap as some Indonesian from certain parts , so are the women from the Philippines . I was told by my local guides and friends that the different rates are determined by " How Much it cost " these women to get to Saudi Arabia and back to their countries . As for the Egyptian women and othe Arab women , they cost 3000 SAR purely because they are Arabs . ( These women can be found at the many supposedly "secret refuges" for Umrah'Hajj Overstayers or Illegal Migrants ) .
Peace
almarhom
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So would I be right to undderstand that it qualifies the "ma malakat aymanukum" and it would means something like "those your are rightfully entitled to by virtue of God's scripture"?
Thanks.
Salaam
Yes, it's about MMA and I believe your understanding is similar to what I understand too.
This quote refers to the mention of mma at the beginning of 4.24.
So what would this "God's scripture" (kitaaba-llahi) be?
I think some of you have been talking about this aspect or something akin in a number of posts. Excuse me if I ask this now concerning this particular phrase.
Salaam
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Peace
I've been thinking about sex before marriage for a while in terms of whether it is morally acceptable in my mind/heart.
I concluded yes.I looked into the Quran and past discussions in the free-minds forum and conlcuded that that which the Quran lables as married would pretty much conform to a relationship between a couple. Meaning that the couple can have sex. Basically i think most of today's societie's defenition of "couple" would be pretty much the same as the Quran's defenition of "marriage".
My understanding of fornication (sex between unmarried people) is something like a one night stand.
I would be very interested in your views.
If i have missed anything please let me know.
Thanks,
peace -
Peace Q_s
Just when I thought Bukhari , Muslim , Abu Dawood et al have been discarded , no wonder that "Mu'tah Marriage" is alive and well in Saudi Arabia . When I was in Saudi , I was offered to marry up to 4 women at once at defferent "Rate of Dowry/AJR" , each woman I could have married from one week to a few months or forever . The differences in 'Rates of AJR' depends on where the women came from , Egyptian commanded 3000 Saudi Riyal , various south Asian women and South East Asian women range from 600 SA Riyal to 2500 . curiously , some African women are as cheap as some Indonesian from certain parts , so are the women from the Philippines . I was told by my local guides and friends that the different rates are determined by " How Much it cost " these women to get to Saudi Arabia and back to their countries . As for the Egyptian women and othe Arab women , they cost 3000 SAR purely because they are Arabs . ( These women can be found at the many supposedly "secret refuges" for Umrah'Hajj Overstayers or Illegal Migrants ) .
Peace
almarhom
Peace
What has this story to do with Quran ?
Regards -
Peace Q_s
Peace
What has this story to do with Quran ?
RegardsPlease read 'The Topic' of the thread , where do you think those"Muslims" in Saudi Arabia got the idea from , if not from their interpretation of the Qur'an regarding paying "The AJR" and having sex with the women of their choice ?
Peace
almarh0m
p.s . I was shocked too when I first found out the goings on in the " Holy Land " and the vices there .
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Peace Q_s
Please read 'The Topic' of the thread , where do you think those"Muslims" in Saudi Arabia got the idea from , if not from their interpretation of the Qur'an regarding paying "The AJR" and having sex with the women of their choice ?
Peace
almarh0m
p.s . I was shocked too when I first found out the goings on in the " Holy Land " and the vices there .
Peace Brother
Everyone knows those are Hadithi group. What we have to do with them? Why should not quote them in interpretation of the Quran.
Secondly if someone is doing wrong ,he is answerable for his deeds ,not we. We are answerable only for what we do. No??Regards
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This quote refers to the mention of mma at the beginning of 4.24.
So what would this "God's scripture" (kitaaba-llahi) be?
I think some of you have been talking about this aspect or something akin in a number of posts. Excuse me if I ask this now concerning this particular phrase.
Salaam
As far as I know, kitaab does not mean book in the sense we know. It means a compilation of related rules/issues concerning a specific topic, for example (kitabul mawt) contains everything related to death. In the hadith compiled by Muslim, you find that it's organized in "utub" kitabul 3uqood (saying on contracts), kitabul 7aiD (sayings on menustration)..etc,and it's thus compiled because of the belief that those sayings/hadiths are rules and regulations. Kitabullah in a context is the the compilation of God's laws concerning this context.
In this verse, my understanding is that kitaballah is not just about MMA, but about the case from the beginning of the verse prohibited are the sexually enabled except those whom you possess by your oath/ agree to wed you; this is in accordance with the law of God concerning marriage in this context. -
Peace Q_s
Just when I thought Bukhari , Muslim , Abu Dawood et al have been discarded , no wonder that "Mu'tah Marriage" is alive and well in Saudi Arabia . When I was in Saudi , I was offered to marry up to 4 women at once at defferent "Rate of Dowry/AJR" , each woman I could have married from one week to a few months or forever . The differences in 'Rates of AJR' depends on where the women came from , Egyptian commanded 3000 Saudi Riyal , various south Asian women and South East Asian women range from 600 SA Riyal to 2500 . curiously , some African women are as cheap as some Indonesian from certain parts , so are the women from the Philippines . I was told by my local guides and friends that the different rates are determined by " How Much it cost " these women to get to Saudi Arabia and back to their countries . As for the Egyptian women and othe Arab women , they cost 3000 SAR purely because they are Arabs . ( These women can be found at the many supposedly "secret refuges" for Umrah'Hajj Overstayers or Illegal Migrants ) .
Peace
almarhom
This is what you expect when ajr is understood as a payment for sexual services. Not only that, but the shari3a law does not oblige the husband to take care of the sick wife who cannot render this service, nor would he be blamed if he returns the "goods" to the "seller" in such circumstances. The society is so accustomed to this that even her family will not blame the husband if he decides to marry another wife. And forget about sakeena (safety), mawadda or ra7ma (love and compassion).
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Peace everyone,
Normally no one will accuse a sexually disabled person for zina, therefore here the term muhsanat (sexually able women) is used.
"SEXUALLY IMMUNE" CANNOT MEAN "SEXUALLY ABLE" brickwall brickwall brickwall
Sexually immune can only mean "those whom you cannot have sex with".
If you are immune from flu, it cannot mean that you are able to get flu, but it will mean that you cannot get flu.
Mohsanaat cannot mean immune, because then it would mean that "fatayaat" in 425 are non-immune because mohsanaat are contrasted with fatayaat in that sign. This would result in a nonsensical interpretation.
We have to figure out the meaning according to the context of the god's words.
THE ONLY THING DIFFERENT BETWEEN MOHSANAAT AND FATAYAAT ACCORDING TO CONTEXT OF 425 IS PERMISSION OF GUARDIAN.
Therefore, the only possible meaning would be
Mohsanaat = independent women (not requiring permission of guardian)
Fatayaat = dependent women (requiring permission of guardian)All other meanings will result in contradiction in the god's words or a nonsensical interpretation.