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Hot/"ramadan" Answer

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Ahmad_Bilal
    wrote on last edited by
    #896

    Peace Ayman,

    I have a question about the period of "shahru ramadaan"... Based on 2184, you agree that we can substitute the action of "seyaam" by feeding the poor. However, shouldn't the poor people be fasting/abstaining from food too (if this is what the act of seyaam is implying)? What if we approach a poor muslim, can he eat during this period if he witnesses the "shahru ramadaan"? Or is it possible that the act of "seyaam" is referring to something other than abstaining from eating and drinking? I was just wondering, since this is something I couldn't understand from the passage... How do we know that the Qur'aanic command to "abstain" is speaking about from eating and drinking?

    Peace,

    Ahmad

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      truthseeker11
      wrote on last edited by
      #897

      Peace everyone,

      1. The poor don't have enough food to eat for the whole year and they are in a perpetual state of abstinence from food for the whole year. The annual time of abstinence will actually be a time for them to rejoice because some believers might feed them and they will have enough food for at least the duration of abstinence. I know a person who is poor and she resides in a highly developed country. She has been eating only once a day for a long time now. What I am talking about is a reality.

      2. The annual abstinence is only for the mumineen/believers and not for all muslimeen. There are a lot of poor muslimeen too; not all of them are mumineen.

      3. There are an overwhelming majority of poor who are not even muslimeen. The qur'aan does not ask us to feed the poor muslimeen only. They could belong to any faith or religion.

      A little common sense goes a long way to understand the qur'aanic commandments.

      The only time there will be no poor to feed during the time of abstinence is if there are no more poor people in the world which is impossible or if all the poor people are also mumineen which is again impossible

      6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God?s path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

      This sign makes it clear that the majority of the people lead away from the god's path so all poor people in the world being mumineen will be impossible.

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      • A Offline
        A Offline
        ayman
        wrote on last edited by
        #898

        Peace Ahmad,

        I have a question about the period of "shahru ramadaan"... Based on 2184, you agree that we can substitute the action of "seyaam" by feeding the poor. However, shouldn't the poor people be fasting/abstaining from food too (if this is what the act of seyaam is implying)? What if we approach a poor muslim, can he eat during this period if he witnesses the "shahru ramadaan"? Or is it possible that the act of "seyaam" is referring to something other than abstaining from eating and drinking? I was just wondering, since this is something I couldn't understand from the passage... How do we know that the Qur'aanic command to "abstain" is speaking about from eating and drinking?

        I think that 2187 makes it clear that the abstinence is from the following 3 things

        1. Sexual contact
        2. Food
        3. Drink

        The poor should be abstaining too. However, everyone, poor or not can eat after sunset. What do the poor do now when they fast 30 days using the sectarian timing? Does everyone stop feeding the poor because of this and they starve to death? Certainly not! In fact, during those 30 days the poor have a lot more access to food because many good citizens set up public feasts at sunset.

        Peace,

        Ayman

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        • E Offline
          E Offline
          No longer a Sunna-rejecter
          wrote on last edited by
          #899

          The poor should be abstaining too. However, everyone, poor or not can eat after sunset.

          When do you break your fast? Full darkness of the night or dusk?

          I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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          • A Offline
            A Offline
            ayman
            wrote on last edited by
            #900

            Peace Progressive1993,

            When do you break your fast? Full darkness of the night or dusk?

            According to the great reading, night starts at sunset as it is merged into daylight. So the abstinence ends when night starts at sunset.

            Peace,

            Ayman

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            • Q Offline
              Q Offline
              Q_student
              wrote on last edited by
              #901

              Peace
              Ramadhan (the month of fasting ) is likely to start to start during the last ten days of August because today is Rajab 1.
              Regards

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              • E Offline
                E Offline
                No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                wrote on last edited by
                #902

                Peace
                Ramadhan (the month of fasting ) is likely to start to start during the last ten days of August because today is Rajab 1.
                Regards

                It's the 21st

                I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                • A Offline
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                  ayman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #903

                  Had Umar decided to make the new era start on 616CE instead of 622CE then what sectarians now call Rajab 1 would have been Ramadhan 1 and they would be fasting right now.

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                  • E Offline
                    E Offline
                    No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #904

                    Had Umar decided to make the new era start on 616CE instead of 622CE then what sectarians now call Rajab 1 would have been Ramadhan 1 and they would be fasting right now.

                    Thank God that he didnt. laugh
                    I dont care about the shifiting, BTW.

                    I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                      Q_student
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #905

                      Thank God that he didnt. laugh
                      I dont care about the shifiting, BTW.

                      And Umar did not try to befool people with "inscriptions".
                      Regards

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                      • U Offline
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                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #906

                        And Umar did not try to befool people with "inscriptions".
                        Regards

                        so how did he try to befool people then? in the name of "authorities"? confused

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                          P Offline
                          procrastinator
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #907

                          i havent had a chance to really read this article, but wasnt umar the second caliph... and one of the prophets (saw) companions? if so how could he have gotten this soo wrong?

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                          • E Offline
                            E Offline
                            No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #908

                            i havent had a chance to really read this article, but wasnt umar the second caliph... and one of the prophets (saw) companions? if so how could he have gotten this soo wrong?

                            They didnt
                            The current Ramadan is the correct one.

                            I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                              procrastinator
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #909

                              They didnt
                              The current Ramadan is the correct one.

                              yh i agree

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                              • A Offline
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                                afridi220
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #910

                                And Umar did not try to befool people with "inscriptions".
                                Regards

                                But why you are so sure that Umar made the new calendar????

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                                • Q Offline
                                  Q Offline
                                  Q_student
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #911

                                  But why you are so sure that Umar made the new calendar????

                                  Peace
                                  Please read the whole thread and see who said this then comment.
                                  "Think before you speak".
                                  Regards

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                                  • A Offline
                                    A Offline
                                    afridi220
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #912

                                    Peace
                                    Please read the whole thread and see who said this then comment.
                                    "Think before you speak".
                                    Regards

                                    Yes I?m aware of that thread and Wikipedia too but I don?t buy that story, like many other hadiths this one is also concocted.

                                    peace

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                                    • A Offline
                                      A Offline
                                      ayman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #913

                                      Peace Procrastinator,

                                      i havent had a chance to really read this article, but wasnt umar the second caliph... and one of the prophets (saw) companions? if so how could he have gotten this soo wrong?

                                      If you think that the present timing could be "so wrong" then the question of "how" or "who" is irrelevant since it doesn't magically make the timing right or non-arbitrary.

                                      Unfortunately, the majority of so-called Muslims have been raised on hero-worship of the so-called Sahaba such as Umar. So deep inside they think that those guys were infallible. However, in reality all the instances of the prophet's "sahaba" in the great reading cast them in a negative light. In the two cases where they are mentioned in 532 and 8122 they thought that the prophet is crazy and lost. Moreover, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that Umar ever met or even saw the prophet. It seems that to gain legitimacy every ruler had to claim to have a lineage or connection to the prophet. Rulers in the middle east do it to the present day.

                                      The real questions that you need to be asking are the following

                                      1. Is the sectarian timing arbitrary? The answer is absolutely YES.
                                      2. Do animals and therefore hunting restrictions go by the solar cycle? The answer is absolutely YES.

                                      Peace,

                                      Ayman

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                                      • Q Offline
                                        Q Offline
                                        Q_student
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #914

                                        Peace Procrastinator,

                                        Unfortunately, the majority of so-called Muslims have been raised on hero-worship of the so-called Sahaba such as Umar. So deep inside they think that those guys were infallible.
                                        Ayman

                                        Peace
                                        Those were not infallible like any human being but those were the most RELIABLE groups because their righteousness and sincerity is evident even in the Quran because they got divine certificate.

                                        Quran does not allow any "inscription " based interpretations.
                                        Regards

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                                          U Offline
                                          unknownuser
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #915

                                          Those were not infallible like any human being but those were the most RELIABLE groups because their righteousness and sincerity is evident even in the Quran because they got divine certificate.

                                          Quran does not allow any "inscription " based interpretations.

                                          Regards

                                          bravo

                                          elhamdulillah, quran only allows hadith based interpretations

                                          9 100 And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al- Madinah, Umar, Abu bakr siddiq etc) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al- Madinah, abu ayyub alansari, Abu Mas'ud Al-Ansari etc who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them* as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.

                                          • For the complete list of muhajireen and ansaar see Bukhari, Muslim etc
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