The "Difference between Messengers/Prophets" .
-
Peace Saladin
Nice work on compiling the verses
But how your idea on prophets are types of messengers fits 381...........
381 clearly states that the convenant is only made with all prophets, but there will be a messenger who is not in the convenant that will confirm/authenticate what is with the prophets.So are you suggesting that the messenger in 381 is a non-human messenger?
Peace
peace loli.
the messenger who would confirm the previous scriptures could b any messenger . it could also be a messenger prophet . it could also be the koran that confirms the previous scriptures .
btw i believe that the messenger in 381 was prophet muhammed .
peace . -
salam idolfree,
Well like I said before, with such little common ground, how can a discussion be fruitful? You have to agree on the simple things before going on to the complex.. and here we do NOT agree on the simple things.
You persistently push the idea of mixing the pure Quran with all the other impure corruptions out there (books which even the followers admit are corrupted). This is inexcusable in my opinion.
Also the persistent idea that you have that everyone can receive wahi which is an absolutely unproven statement without any support whatsoever.
But we've gone in circles before haven't we? Like I've said in the past, someone who can turn the meaning of a basic word like kitaab into something esoteric like universe using only word games as proofs... then how can anyone expect a fruitful result?
-
Peace Kyle,
they did not use the sperm and egg, but still male and female union, on a smaller molecular level. The fact remains that unless male and female principles/forces/faculties unite, there is no life.
About Dolly and Kaguya, there is no male and female union at any level.
You see only your own logic despite it is not supported by scientific arguments.To you is your understanding , and to me is mine )
-
Peace be upon you Shuiab,
Well like I said before, with such little common ground, how can a discussion be fruitful? You have to agree on the simple things before going on to the complex.. and here we do NOT agree on the simple things.
You persistently push the idea of mixing the pure Quran with all the other impure corruptions out there (books which even the followers admit are corrupted). This is inexcusable in my opinion.
Mixing? It sounds like you have a partner with the God. I follow the God and his messenger, which means I follow TRUTH, no matter what piece of paper it is written on. When you say "mixing" are you trying to imply that I am telling people tgo follow the so called Bible or things like that? If so, then you need to go back and read my position again because you have not understood.
Also the persistent idea that you have that everyone can receive wahi which is an absolutely unproven statement without any support whatsoever.
If you recive no INSPIRATION (wahi) then how do you CHANGE?
But we've gone in circles before haven't we? Like I've said in the past, someone who can turn the meaning of a basic word like kitaab into something esoteric like universe using only word games as proofs... then how can anyone expect a fruitful result?
The God states that the universe will be rolled up like a scroll(book). When you realize that ALL THINGS are sounds (Be and it becomes), and that all things in creation are AYAATS(signs), then you will see what I am saying. Until then "good luck" in your journey and Peace to you.
-
Peace be upon you Marie,
There is NO LIFE without the male and female principle. Humans have within them what is referred to as the LIFE FORCE. Some call it bio kenetic energy or all kinds of names. Chinese call it "chi", Hindus "kundalini", christians call it "holy spirit" (but don't really know what it means), this reading calls it "ruh ul qudus", etc.
It is the ENERGY that moves ALL THINGS, that POWERS all things. NOthing happens without it.
Sperm is the transfer of this ENERGY.
In the case of Dolly, instead of sperm being the MALE PRINCIPLE, the scientist used ANOTHER SOURCE OF ENERGY. Yes, not from a species with the male GENDER, but still from the MALE PRINCIPLE.
Here is a clear color diagram of the process
http//science.howstuffworks.com/cloning3.htm
Sorry dear sister, but there is no getting around the God's Law.
Energy(M)+ Matter(F) = Life
-
salams all,
i see the main problem here is that you have to realize that there is a linguistic context meaning and then a quranic context meaning. The linguistic meaning is a literal meaning of a word, and the Quranic meaning (of course based on the linguistic meaning) is the context and connection with which that word has been used throughout the Quran.
To take the word wahi, or rasool, or nabi, purely OUTSIDE the context of the Quran, take its pure linguistic meaning and then form all sorts of ideas based on that, will lead to grave misunderstandings.
yes in the general linguistic sense wahi can mean ANY inspiration.. but I think you all know full well that I am referring SPECIFICALLY to the direct conscious communication of knowledge that Allah can give to people of his choosing, such as the words contained in the Quran. THAT is what i meant when i said wahi.
-
Peace all,
Some receive the inspiration from the God and some receive it from the human and Jinn devils (6 112, 121)
- We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire (yoohee) in each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
-
Peace be upon you all,
Yes, there are two sources of attraction that send inspiration, therefore we must always weigh evidence properly, or else "shayteen" will inspire us that sticks turn to snakes and that the God is only interested in communicating to selected exclusive individuals in the past, and only in the Middle East. D
If we are not careful, we can be inspired that we are not capable of reaching a level where we can follow the EXAMPLES of the prophets.
-
Peace,
"shayteen" has any strength on us because the Reading explains itself. If we follow the explanation given inside the Reading, we cannot misunderstood the God's words.
Do we need to explain the concept of salat, sawm, zakat, sujood, rukooAA...?
The response is No and this is valid for each word of the Reading.Let us the God explains His words through His words D
-
peace .
two important verses that i left out of my initial post351 Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, who
appointeth the angels messengers...3428 And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of
good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind
know not. -
Peace All,
I think 4251 sums it up nicely
It is not fitting for a man that God should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with God's permission, what God wills for He is Most High, Most Wise.
Wama kana libasharin an yukallimahu Allahu illa wahyan aw min wara-i hijabin aw yursila rasoolan fayoohiya bi-ithnihi ma yashao innahu AAaliyyun hakeemun
Here we see 3 ways that God communicates with man
(1) Inspiration
(2) From behind a veil/barrier
(3) Through a messengerIn my opinion, wahy through inspiration is found when we are clear of worldly thought and bias. Wahy from behind a veil/barrier is found when we witness nature. And the 3rd form of wahy is self-evident, although, I think one still needs to be free of preconceptions and wordly thought and bias to be able to pick up on this form of wahy through a messenger.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay,
I think 4251 sums it up nicely
Here we see 3 ways that God communicates with man
(1) Inspiration
(2) From behind a veil/barrier
(3) Through a messengerI think the God communicated with Moses behind a non physical veil/barrier because when the God revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble (7143)
-
Peace Marie,
You stated
I think the God communicated with Moses behind a non physical veil/barrier because when the God revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble (7143)
I've thought about this also. What steers me away, however, is that Moses was in fact a messenger. Hence, his wahy was revealed to him through the 3rd avenue of revelation, as stated in 4251..."or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with God's permission, what God wills"
Peace,
Tay -
Salam Tay,
I've thought about this also. What steers me away, however, is that Moses was in fact a messenger. Hence, his wahy was revealed to him through the 3rd avenue of revelation, as stated in 4251..."or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with God's permission, what God wills"
Moses talked to the God (2253), that doesn't exclude other ways of revelation (452).
- Such messengers, We have preferred some over others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in rank, and We gave Jesus son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the holy spirit. And had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes.
The prophet Muhammad received His wahy (26192) through the trusted Spirit (26193), I don't think that he receided it only through this way.
Below is an example
- God said ?O Jesus, I will let you die, and raise you to Me, and cleanse you of those who have rejected, and make those who have followed you above those who rejected until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me is your return so I will judge between all of you in what it was that you disputed.?
-
Peace Marie,
You stated,
Moses talked to the God (2253), that doesn't exclude other ways of revelation (452).
I agree. Although, I don't see the connection to 452.
I think what is important is in 4251, we are told that God does not talk to man except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger
What I gather is that man and messenger here are seperated, and man indeed is capable of 'talking" to God.
Peace,
Tay