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  4. -=[ Correction/Modification to FM Translation of AlQuraan ]=-

-=[ Correction/Modification to FM Translation of AlQuraan ]=-

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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    Rilum
    wrote on last edited by
    #190

    43 And if you fear that you cannot be equitable to the orphans, then
    you may marry (fa-inki&#363 those who are agreeable to you of the women two,
    and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only
    one, or whom you are committed to by your oath. This is best that
    you do not face financial hardship.

    fa-inki means to let them marry, fa-inka would be to marry. The verb is in form 4

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    • R Offline
      R Offline
      Rilum
      wrote on last edited by
      #191

      44 And give the women their dues (aduqtihinna) willingly, and if they remit any
      of it to you of their own will, then you may take it with good
      feelings.

      Shouldn't it be "their charities"?

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      • LaythL Offline
        LaythL Offline
        Layth
        wrote on last edited by
        #192

        Salam,

        1115 Why elegance and 748 why piercing sound? Why not clicked in the clicking device?

        1115 "Jeed" is given as "the beauty of the neck in length and shape". In reading that definition, I could see the verse saying that "no matter how wonderful she looked on the outside, inside her was evil"

        748 "Naqour" is the word given to that which pierces or causes a hole. Naqar means to "drill". and Minqar is the "beak" of a bird. For example, the woodpecker is called "Naqaar". Thus I read the sound being made for the call to J-day as one that "pierces" into the very soul of people.

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        • LaythL Offline
          LaythL Offline
          Layth
          wrote on last edited by
          #193

          Salam,

          43 And if you fear that you cannot be equitable to the orphans, then
          you may marry (fa-inki&#363 those who are agreeable to you of the women two,
          and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only
          one, or whom you are committed to by your oath. This is best that
          you do not face financial hardship.

          fa-inki means to let them marry, fa-inka would be to marry. The verb is in form 4

          That is not correct. InkIhu and InkAhu are simply variations of the sentence structure.

          Look at 2221 or 422 to see "InkIhu" which is clearly "to marry"

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          • R Offline
            R Offline
            Rilum
            wrote on last edited by
            #194

            Salam, if sound was meant then God would you use the arabic word for sound. I think the word naqour is based on a rule in Arabic grammar that any verb can be changed from its root form to describe an apparatus / tool / system by placing an Alif letter (A ) and after the second letter puts a Waw (Ou)

            make, doers
            calculate, calculator
            share, divisor (also the sword is named as such)
            gather, Collected Edition, Law (Legislation)
            help, help system

            What do you think about my 44 translations suggestion?

            I think to translate it to let marry in these verses is also possible.

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            • I Offline
              I Offline
              IsaMuslim
              wrote on last edited by
              #195

              Salaam,
              I suggest in verses 861-2 to translate "al-tariq" in "the knocking" or "the knocking star" (like in Safi Kaskas translation), as in verse 863 it is made clear that He is talking about a star, and "knocking" and "piercing" are a correct description for a Pulsar. One of the meanings of this root is "to knock/to hammer" according to islamawakened's dictionary.
              It is interesting, because Pulsars were discovered only in 1960s.
              For people who want to know more details I recommend this article https//imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/objects/neutron_stars1.html
              God bless you.

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              • I Offline
                I Offline
                ibn_a
                wrote on last edited by
                #196

                Salaam Layth,

                7228
                So that He knows that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.

                (so as) to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.

                From Asad translation .

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                • I Offline
                  I Offline
                  IsaMuslim
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #197

                  Salaam

                  I suggest in verse 416 to translate "wa alladhani ya`tiyaniha" from "And the two men who commit it" to "And those two who commit it" because the gender of the two is not specified, and constrains the reader in interpreting this and the previous verses in a certain way.

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                  • LaythL Offline
                    LaythL Offline
                    Layth
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #198

                    Salam,

                    Allathani is defining gender in being 2 males (416). So the translation is correct as it stands.

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                    • R Offline
                      R Offline
                      Rilum
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #199

                      No it does not, IsaMuslim is right. It can also mean man and woman, not necessarily 2 men.

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                      • The_SardarT Offline
                        The_SardarT Offline
                        The_Sardar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #200

                        No it does not, IsaMuslim is right. It can also mean man and woman, not necessarily 2 men.

                        I agree wa-alladhni (&#1606 is in masculine dual relative pronoun which means both gender.

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                        • I Offline
                          I Offline
                          IsaMuslim
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #201

                          I found an interesting note supporting "two men" in the website of Joseph Islam

                          In verse 416, the Arabic word used is 'alladhani' which is a masculine dual pronoun. Albeit, this can refer to a mixed gender group (a male and a female), it most likely refers to two men in this context. This is supported by the context of the previous verse which refers to and addresses women (415). Furthermore, some assert the duality of verse 416 as a reference to 'two guilty parties' of 415. This is also implausible given the plural context of the guilty women in verse 415, the structure of the argument of the verse and the punishment instructed. Verse 416 is also very unlikely to be a reference to illicit heterosexual relationships as this matter is firmly dealt with in verse 242. Therefore, verse 416 with the use of the dual masculine pronoun is most likely a reference to two men which is primarily supported by context.

                          http//quransmessage.com/articles/homosexuality

                          But I don't know if his reasoning on the context excluding it is correct; I have read other interpretations on context, such as Edip Yuksel's, that fit perfectly if considering "alladhani" the two guilty parties of 415.

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                          • The_SardarT Offline
                            The_SardarT Offline
                            The_Sardar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #202

                            But I don't know if his reasoning on the context excluding it is correct; I have read other interpretations on context, such as Edip Yuksel's, that fit perfectly if considering "alladhani" the two guilty parties of 415.

                            Salam this is what Edip Yuksel said about 415 & 16

                            415

                            The relative pronoun in this verse is allati, which refers to a group of women. It indicates an organized prostitution, which might pose a grave health problem for the society. In a society that accepted the jurisdiction of the Quran, if a woman is proven four times to be involved in promiscuous sexual activity, she is considered a hazard to the society and should be quarantined. Perhaps there is also an implication for our time, where genetic identification helps us to find the real father of a child. Our genes are made of various combinations of four acid molecules Adenine, Guanine, Cytosine, and Thiamine. These four molecules, which are made of four different elements, function as witnesses for the identity of individuals to which they belong. The Quran does not necessarily require the witness to be an eyewitness. For instance, we bear witness to the oneness of God via our intelligence. The witness mentioned in 1226 is not considered a witness because he was present during the alleged incident. That witness did not say, "I saw with my eyes." The human witness mentioned in that story is proposing the testimony of circumstantial evidence, and logical conclusions based on both inductive and deductive reasoning. In other words, the Quran accepts the testimony of reliable circumstantial evidence just as it accepts the testimony of a reliable eyewitness.

                            416

                            The relative pronoun is not marked; the male dual form allazani (both) includes the female partner. In this case, it appears that the illegal or extramarital sexual affair is monogamous. For the punishment of the adulterers, see 241.

                            You can check in http//quranix.org/4#15 for verification, click on the red numbers to see the translators notes.

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                            • R Offline
                              R Offline
                              Rilum
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #203

                              425And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the emancipated
                              female believers, then from those committed to by your oath
                              of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your
                              faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with
                              the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in
                              kindness. To be emancipated (mu'antin)?not for illicit sex or taking lovers.
                              Once they are emancipated(u'inna), then any of them who comes with
                              an immorality shall have half of what is upon those already
                              emancipated of the punishment. This is for those who fear a
                              hardship from among you, but if you are patient it is better for
                              you. And God is Forgiver, Merciful.

                              I think you cant use emancipate here, as the root means to protect or to guard.

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                              • The_SardarT Offline
                                The_SardarT Offline
                                The_Sardar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #204

                                425And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the emancipated
                                female believers, then from those committed to by your oath
                                of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your
                                faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with
                                the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in
                                kindness. To be emancipated (mu'antin)?not for illicit sex or taking lovers.
                                Once they are emancipated(u'inna), then any of them who comes with
                                an immorality shall have half of what is upon those already
                                emancipated of the punishment. This is for those who fear a
                                hardship from among you, but if you are patient it is better for
                                you. And God is Forgiver, Merciful.

                                I think you cant use emancipate here, as the root means to protect or to guard.

                                Bold

                                Ha-Sad-Nun = To be guarded, be inaccessible/unapproachable, be chaste, be strongly fortified, difficult to access, be preserved, be protected (against attack), abstain from what is not lawful nor decorous, preserve or guard a thing in places inaccessible/unapproachable, make or render a thing inaccessible or unapproachable or difficult to access, make/render a thing unattainable by reason of its height, to fortify oneself.

                                husun n.m. (pl. of husn) 592

                                hassana vb. (2) pcple. pass. 5914

                                ahsana vb. (4)
                                perf. act. 2191, 6612
                                impf. act. 1248, 2180
                                impf. pass. 425
                                pcple. act. 424, 55
                                pcple. pass. f. 424, 425, 425, 425, 55, 55, 244, 2423

                                tahassana vb. (5) n.vb. 2433

                                Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 222, 223 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7Sn

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                                • I Offline
                                  I Offline
                                  IsaMuslim
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #205

                                  Salam this is what Edip Yuksel said about 415 & 16

                                  415

                                  416

                                  You can check in http//quranix.org/4#15 for verification, click on the red numbers to see the translators notes.

                                  Salaam,
                                  Thanks for the notes.
                                  I believe he is right on the "prostitution", because otherwise, in my opinion, it would be difficult to explain "until God makes a way out for them" (a way to escape from the house? a way to get out of the situation sounds better), but I don't agree with the "quarantine" thing; to me it looks just like a command to a man to keep his wife or daughter at home, to avoid them continuing committing that lewdness.

                                  425And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the emancipated
                                  female believers, then from those committed to by your oath
                                  of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your
                                  faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with
                                  the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in
                                  kindness. To be emancipated (mu'antin)?not for illicit sex or taking lovers.
                                  Once they are emancipated(u'inna), then any of them who comes with
                                  an immorality shall have half of what is upon those already
                                  emancipated of the punishment. This is for those who fear a
                                  hardship from among you, but if you are patient it is better for
                                  you. And God is Forgiver, Merciful.

                                  I think you cant use emancipate here, as the root means to protect or to guard.

                                  Salaam,
                                  I agree that sometimes Edip Yuksel completely changed certain words; that is why I never rely on a single translation and I use websites such as islamawakened.com

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                                  • R Offline
                                    R Offline
                                    Rilum
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #206

                                    443, 56

                                    I would suggest to translate the word "junuban" as impure or something else/similar.

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                                    • R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Rilum
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #207

                                      Bismillahi I think it would be more accurate and appropriate to translate it to With God's name

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                                      • I Offline
                                        I Offline
                                        IsaMuslim
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #208

                                        Salaam, I think this is a typo

                                        2380 And He is the One who gives life and brings death, and to Him is the alteration of the night and the day. Do you not comprehend?

                                        Alteration instead of alternation.

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #209

                                          Bismillahi I think it would be more accurate and appropriate to translate it to With God's name

                                          http//haqeeqat.pk/02.%20Grammatical%20units/1.gif

                                          These three words, a preposition, a common noun and a Proper Noun constitute the first grammatical unit . It comprises of a Prepositional Phrase + Possessive Phrase.

                                          The first word comprising of a consonant and a vowel is Inseparable Preposition, meaning that it occurs prefixed with its object noun; in Arabic it is called . Prepositions render their object noun in genitive case. The preposition and its object noun constitute what is called a prepositional phrase, in Arabic grammar .

                                          The prepositions used in the Divine Discourse help visually recognize the nouns, effortlessly. The preposition designates contiguity in its broadest sense. It has a wide range of uses including spatiotemporal, instrumental and manner adverbial. It is used for the following purposes

                                          1. For connectivity;

                                          2. For assistance; instrument

                                          3. For making a verb transitive;

                                          4. For an adverbial meaning;

                                          5. For accompaniment.

                                          6. For requital; and

                                          7. Extraneous; according to a rule for the negated predicate; also in interrogation.

                                          The preposition is evidently for seeking assistance; This phrase in isolation literally means "recourse-beginning-activation-concomitance is with/by a name-code". Initiating a controlled process requires information. And the most fundamental fact about information is that it is itself preceded by the Prime Source Who is but the Living and holding Will. The Divine Discourse concatenates facts in perfect sequence and chronological order. Its first word vividly indicates at the outset about superb concatenation-consistence-contiguity and colligation in the contents of the Book in hand. This is the First scientific fact of the physical world. The creation and for created ones the initiation of the process of learning-knowledge is but the "code/name". The human memory and that of computer can save nothing without knowing or assigning a code/name to a thing-object-phenomenon.

                                          http//haqeeqat.pk/1.BismilAllah.htm

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