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  4. Palavers about Qur'aan.

Palavers about Qur'aan.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Mazhar
    wrote on last edited by
    #126

    Assumption or traditions/ahadith gives you this picture. Where is this ascension described in Quraan?

    Going by the discipline of reading a book, one does not need assumptions and traditions. One figure of speech is Tasreef; and second is frames on subjects/concepts. In every frame there are key words. You can then link the frames and get the complete idea.

    Qur?n is rendered facilitative for comprehension

    By unique device like coverage of an event by multiple cameras

    http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatibeByTasreef.htm

    Where is this ascension described in Quraan?

    http//haqeeqat.pk/banners/o3.png

    http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Novice
      wrote on last edited by
      #127

      Going by the discipline of reading a book, one does not need assumptions and traditions. One figure of speech is Tasreef; and second is frames on subjects/concepts. In every frame there are key words. You can then link the frames and get the complete idea.

      Qur?n is rendered facilitative for comprehension

      By unique device like coverage of an event by multiple cameras

      http//haqeeqat.pk/FacilitatibeByTasreef.htm

      http//haqeeqat.pk/banners/o3.png

      http//haqeeqat.pk/Mairaaj.htm

      Your article is based on 2 suppositions;

      1-surah najam is about night travel of the prophet from a non-existant masjid ul haram at that time around kaaba to a remotely high masjid.

      531-18
      (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (

      There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

      2- Jannah is a physical place where your great great great grand father used to live with his wife. They ate from a forbidden tree and as a result were thrown down on this earth. What a crime and what a punishment.

      Quran gives an example of Jannah in following ayahs not actual description of Jannah.

      1335
      (

      4715
      (

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #128

        Your article is based on 2 suppositions;

        1-surah najam is about night travel of the prophet from a non-existant masjid ul haram at that time around kaaba to a remotely high masjid.

        531-18
        (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (&#65279 (

        There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

        2- Jannah is a physical place where your great great great grand father used to live with his wife. They ate from a forbidden tree and as a result were thrown down on this earth. What a crime and what a punishment.

        Quran gives an example of Jannah in following ayahs not actual description of Jannah.

        1335
        (

        4715
        (

        http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.1PPQ.gif This Sacred Mosque is in existence from the day AlBait was constructed.

        You do not believe in "the House of Allah", therefore, you will not believe in the Sacred Mosque. So we leave it.

        They ate from a forbidden tree and as a result were thrown down on this earth. What a crime and what a punishment.

        Neither was that crime; nor was punishment; nor were thrown down.

        http//There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

        If it was not journey beyond the frontiers of this universe then what do you think is stated in Chapter 53 first part. And who is the man mentioned therein?

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        • N Offline
          N Offline
          Novice
          wrote on last edited by
          #129

          http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.1PPQ.gif This Sacred Mosque is in existence from the day AlBait was constructed.

          You do not believe in "the House of Allah", therefore, you will not believe in the Sacred Mosque. So we leave it.

          I do believe in "Baitullah" but my God is above corporeal needs.

          The first compound around kaaba was built by umayyads as far as I can recall.

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          • N Offline
            N Offline
            Novice
            wrote on last edited by
            #130

            http//There is no travel mentioned in these ayahs. Can you please show me a single word in these ayah that means travel?

            If it was not journey beyond the frontiers of this universe then what do you think is stated in Chapter 53 first part. And who is the man mentioned therein?

            I said there is no word for travel in these ayah. Then how you bring in the word isra walmeraj in your interpretation.

            God can show His signs to a human without sending a flying horse with the face of a beautiful women. The vision does not require to physically travel from one non existent masjid to another one in upper heavens. Brother you have to break the shackles of traditions and stories to interpret Quraan. We need a clean slate to get the real message.

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #131

              I do believe in "Baitullah" but my God is above corporeal needs.

              The first compound around kaaba was built by umayyads as far as I can recall.

              Kaaba itself is an entity. All around it is the Masjid. Compound is just a facilitation for the visitors.

              Who says "My House"? Does a monument meets corporeal needs of anybody? Why to associate it with corporeal needs?

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #132

                I said there is no word for travel in these ayah. Then how you bring in the word isra walmeraj in your interpretation.

                God can show His signs to a human without sending a flying horse with the face of a beautiful women. The vision does not require to physically travel from one non existent masjid to another one in upper heavens. Brother you have to break the shackles of traditions and stories to interpret Quraan. We need a clean slate to get the real message.

                Then enlighten what is conveyed in those Ayahs.

                I have said this journey was corporeal.

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                • N Offline
                  N Offline
                  NewFrenzy
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #133

                  Can you translate chapter 2 verse 1?
                  Man has intensely suffered.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #134

                    Can you translate chapter 2 verse 1?
                    Man has intensely suffered.

                    Salamun alaika;

                    I have explained it here

                    chapter 2 verse 1

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                    • N Offline
                      N Offline
                      NewFrenzy
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #135

                      Salamun alaika;

                      I have explained it here

                      chapter 2 verse 1

                      Yes you have explained it but failed to translate.
                      NVM

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #136

                        Yes you have explained it but failed to translate.
                        NVM

                        Alphabets of a language are mentioned in another language by spellings that produce the sound of letters in original language. While translation is of words which have meanings. A word in Arabic is combination of a consonant and vowel. Thereby either go by the universally accepted definition of translation or coin a new one as you said I failed to translate.

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                        • N Offline
                          N Offline
                          Novice
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #137

                          Alphabets of a language are mentioned in another language by spellings that produce the sound of letters in original language. While translation is of words which have meanings. A word in Arabic is combination of a consonant and vowel. Thereby either go by the universally accepted definition of translation or coin a new one as you said I failed to translate.

                          My honest answer would be I do not know what 21 means and why it is there.

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                          • N Offline
                            N Offline
                            Novice
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #138

                            Kaaba itself is an entity. All around it is the Masjid. Compound is just a facilitation for the visitors.

                            Is that a new definition of the masjidulharam?

                            Who says "My House"? Does a monument meets corporeal needs of anybody? Why to associate it with corporeal needs?

                            Brother you said "My House" in your translation in following post of yours.

                            Be aware of history; When Our Majesty had marked the site of the House for acknowledgment by Iebra'heim .
                            The purpose of this site-marking was told to him "you should not associate with Me any other space-thing.
                            And you manage and maintain the cleanliness- sanctity of My House for people who will walk-orbit around it;
                            And for those who steadfastly stand and are the performers of kneeling coupled with the trait as performers of prostration."

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                            • N Offline
                              N Offline
                              Novice
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #139

                              Then enlighten what is conveyed in those Ayahs.

                              I have said this journey was corporeal.

                              Please reply my question. Which Arabic word in 531-18 has the meaning of travel i.e. Isra wal miraj?

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #140

                                Please reply my question. Which Arabic word in 531-18 has the meaning of travel i.e. Isra wal miraj?

                                The event begins by disclosure in 171

                                http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.1PPP.gif

                                The desire of approval of the Infinitely Glorious, Allah the Exalted, is the focus of all effort. He the Exalted had arranged the travel carrying His sincere Allegiant (Muhammad is

                                That it leads to the perception of far distance and deportation to far away, or to an utmost limit.
                                Lane's Lexicon signified the perception of proceeding to extremities and with reference to drinking water; it conveys meaning of drinking in the manner of exhausting the last drop which reflects extremity in any action. He emphasized its meanings as reaching and attaining the utmost by referring to various words made from it.

                                The fact of reaching or attaining the utmost has the built in perception of elevation and altitude. Grand Qur?n, for itself is the best Lexicon. It exposes the perception and meanings of most of its words picturesquely by relationships and contrasts. Basic perception and meanings of the Root are unfolded at the very first place of its occurrence


                                What you get from these declarative sentences of Ayah if you disavow the journey?

                                But please do indicate who is "His Abd"; you can name anybody.

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                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  Novice
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #141

                                  The event begins by disclosure in 171

                                  You cannot understand a simple question? Let me give you my question once again.

                                  Which Arabic word in 531-18 has the meaning of travel i.e. Isra wal miraj?

                                  You are linking 171 with surah najam but what is your proof from Quraan other than the scholars have told so in their tafseer and traditions?

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #142

                                    You cannot understand a simple question? Let me give you my question once again.

                                    You are linking 171 with surah najam but what is your proof from Quraan other than the scholars have told so in their tafseer and traditions?

                                    The purpose of journey is mentioned in both narratives.

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                                    • N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      Novice
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #143

                                      For journey the core collocates are the words and prepositions signifying place of departure and destination; and also direction. Every prudent man knows it. From where the journey began?

                                      That is called hearsay. Quran is a mubeen book. You are quoting tasreef ul ayat so lets see what Quran says about the prophet ascending into skies

                                      635

                                      I will quote your translation of 635 from your web site

                                      Reverting to your sensitivity of grief; if their deliberate refraining is heavy upon you that you can't resist feeling grieved

                                      Thereby, if you self acquired the capability enabling that you might find a two-mouth run-through tunnel within the Earth;

                                      Or a ladder that leads to be within the Sky;

                                      Thereby, come back to them along with some unprecedented demonstrative sign.

                                      And if Allah the Exalted had so resolved, He would have indeed consolidated them upon the Al-Huda the Guide (Qur'aan).

                                      Having known this, you should not henceforth emotionally be disturbed for them.

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #144

                                        That is called hearsay. Quran is a mubeen book. You are quoting tasreef ul ayat so lets see what Quran says about the prophet ascending into skies

                                        635

                                        I will quote your translation of 635 from your web site

                                        Reverting to your sensitivity of grief; if their deliberate refraining is heavy upon you that you can't resist feeling grieved

                                        Thereby, if you self acquired the capability enabling that you might find a two-mouth run-through tunnel within the Earth;

                                        Or a ladder that leads to be within the Sky;

                                        Thereby, come back to them along with some unprecedented demonstrative sign.

                                        And if Allah the Exalted had so resolved, He would have indeed consolidated them upon the Al-Huda the Guide (Qur'aan).

                                        Having known this, you should not henceforth emotionally be disturbed for them.

                                        Has it any relevance to a Real-Life Event?

                                        Episodes are mentioned in Frames. You will see an episode explained at other places by repeating key words to give more information about same events.

                                        Now you come up with what you think is mentioned in 171 and Chapter 53. Leave aside what I have said.

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                                        • N Offline
                                          N Offline
                                          Novice
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #145

                                          Has it any relevance to a Real-Life Event?

                                          Yes it is telling us a real life event. People were not accepting the message. The prophet was getting restless that why people are not accepting the truth. He was advised by Allah to bring some ayah for them from the sky if he could.

                                          Now you come up with what you think is mentioned in 171 and Chapter 53. Leave aside what I have said.

                                          Did I claim I have a web site or have done translation of Quraan? I am a student trying to understand Quraan and that is why I have been looking into different translations of "Prudent people" like yourself.

                                          I can only give my reasons why a certain translation is not acceptable to me in the light of Quranic evidence. So I have tried to point out issues I have with your translation. Nothing against you but it is my search for the truth.

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