Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. Hafs or Warsh

Hafs or Warsh

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
99 Posts 7 Posters 3.2k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • G Offline
    G Offline
    good_logic
    wrote on last edited by
    #73

    Peace Imran.
    I have cited the verses for you. I have given you my take on it .
    I have asked your take on it?
    GOD bless you.
    Peace.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • G Offline
      G Offline
      good_logic
      wrote on last edited by
      #74

      Brother Imran, I think the above should be enough,but let me elaborate more on 2187

      Why do I think this verse is indicating to us how to spell the letter N in 681?
      There are 14 different initial letters used in Qoran, this verse is screaming N the initial (The only one in 681) also is spelt like the N in this verse. Count how many N s in it?
      Yes brother GOD has put exactly 14 N s in that verse as indication. Or it is coincidence to you?
      GOD bless you.
      Peace.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • R Offline
        R Offline
        reel
        wrote on last edited by
        #75

        Peace reel.
        I am not saying one needs to read and write to memorise Qoran.
        I am saying we memorise what we are given to memorise. Or do you check it first?

        You can check against other people's memorization of the same chapters.

        So I am asking are the two memorisations of the two different arrangements of Qoran identical to the letter?
        Also as you know, some memorise hafs and others memorise warsh .And we know for a fact these are not identical to the letter.
        GOD bless you.
        Peace.

        Oh, we all are aware of that, aren't we? Which one to go for can be understood through Quran's inbuilt anti corruption system. Hafs matches it. But not warsh.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • N Offline
          N Offline
          Noon_waalqalami
          wrote on last edited by
          #76

          Oh, we all are aware of that, aren't we? Which one to go for can be understood through Quran's inbuilt anti corruption system. Hafs matches it. But not warsh.

          Peace, not hafs/warsh rather compare oldest manuscripts to new (obvious consistency errors).

          3182 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness (with alif) to the devotees?

          851 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness (no alif?) to the devotees?

          likewise no proven anti-corruption system other than the preserved old manuscripts since they do all their nonsense without two verses.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • G Offline
            G Offline
            good_logic
            wrote on last edited by
            #77

            Peace reel.
            I know what you say here is true to some extent, quote

            You can check against other people's memorization of the same chapters.

            But the important issue still remains, do the memorisation of new arrangement of Qoran matches the memorisation of the arrangement during the time of the prophet letter by letter, by word and verse by verse ? How can we check that?

            One can argue it is very difficult to add/take away whole chapters but words and even small chapters can easily be added or taken away especially if the book is being collected by "experts" that are supposedly trusted and backed by the leaders.

            If there is a trace of even a letter being different/changed then history of the collection needs checking thoroughly. How do we do that ? Can we do that?
            This is when the "preservation" will also be questioned. How is the book been/being preserved?
            GOD bless you.
            Peace.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • I Offline
              I Offline
              ibn_a
              wrote on last edited by
              #78

              Salaam,

              Doesn't this

              peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic.
              it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

              NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

              1317 ... yaribu/striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
              1425 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
              1445 ... waarabn/and strike we of for you l-amthla/the examples
              1674 so not tarib/thou strike ye of to god l-amthla/the examples
              1748 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

              These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

              259 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
              2435 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
              2539 ... arabn/strike we of to him l-amthla/the examples
              2943 and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind and not understand them except the knowing
              5921 ... and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind perhaps they reflecting

              and this

              Peace, not hafs/warsh rather compare oldest manuscripts to new (obvious consistency errors).

              3182 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness (with alif) to the devotees

              851 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness (no alif?) to the devotees

              likewise no proven anti-corruption system other than the preserved old manuscripts since they do all their nonsense without two verses.

              contradict what God says about the preservation of the Qur'an

              159 Indeed, We We have sent down the Reminder, and indeed, We of it (are) surely Guardians.

              4141 Indeed, those who disbelieve in the Reminder when it comes to them. And indeed, it (is) surely a Book mighty.
              4142 Not comes to it the falsehood from before it and not from behind it. A Revelation from (the) All-Wise, (the) Praiseworthy.

              5677 Indeed, it (is) surely, a Quran noble,
              5678 In a Book well-guarded

              7228 So as to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses all that is with them,
              and He has counted everything in numbers.

              8521 Nay! It (is) a Quran Glorious,
              8522 In a Tablet, Guarded.

              Allah knows best.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • N Offline
                N Offline
                Noon_waalqalami
                wrote on last edited by
                #79

                contradict what God says about the preservation of the Qur'an

                peace, see oldest manuscripts l-amthla/the examples (no extra alif) same word

                1317 l-amthla/the examples
                1425 l-amthla/the examples
                1445 l-amthla/the examples
                1674 l-amthla/the examples
                1748 l-amthla/the examples
                259 l-amthla/the examples
                2435 l-amthla/the examples
                2539 l-amthla/the examples
                2943 l-amthlu/the examples
                5921 l-amthlu/the examples

                these are different (no extra alif)

                3182 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                4153 biul'mihim/in wrong/injustice theirs
                4160 fabiul'min/so in wrong/injustice
                682 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                6131 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                11117 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                1661 biul'mihim/in wrong/injustice theirs
                2225 biul'min/in wrong/injustice

                (with extra alif)
                851 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?
                2210 such in what have set forth hands your and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?
                4146 who work righteous of so for soul his/himself and who does evil so against it and not lord your biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?
                5029 not changed the speech with me and not I am biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?

                https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/182/handschrift/163

                https//i.postimg.cc/2StcgFjV/ch3v175-183.jpg

                https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/51/handschrift/163

                https//i.postimg.cc/Nfv8ZCwy/ch8v48-59.jpg

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • I Offline
                  I Offline
                  imrankhawaja
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #80

                  Peace Imran.
                  I have cited the verses for you. I have given you my take on it .
                  I have asked your take on it?
                  GOD bless you.
                  Peace.

                  peace Gl

                  only problem is you never understand the questions.

                  even i asked here something else ?
                  i asked where is the evidence that God decided to write in such a way to hinting towards numbering ? did he personally told you or just ur wishfulthinking ?

                  if God claimed it he must claimed in clear cut way ? did U GET it what i am asking

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • G Offline
                    G Offline
                    good_logic
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #81

                    Peace Imran.
                    I have seen this, quote
                    i asked where is the evidence that God decided to write in such a way to hinting towards numbering ? did he personally told you or just ur wishfulthinking ?

                    "...Ahsa Kulla Chaiin Addadan".. i.e GOD counted the numbers ..
                    I repeat
                    Brother Imran, I think the above should be enough,but let me elaborate more on 2187

                    Why do I think this verse is indicating to us how to spell the letter N in 681?
                    There are 14 different initial letters used in Qoran, this verse is screaming N the initial (The only one in 681) also is spelt like the N in this verse. Count how many N s in it?
                    Yes brother GOD has put exactly 14 N s in that verse as indication. Or it is coincidence to you?
                    GOD bless you.
                    Peace.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • I Offline
                      I Offline
                      ibn_a
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #82

                      Salaam,

                      peace, see oldest manuscripts l-amthla/the examples (no extra alif) same word

                      1317 l-amthla/the examples
                      1425 l-amthla/the examples
                      1445 l-amthla/the examples
                      1674 l-amthla/the examples
                      1748 l-amthla/the examples
                      259 l-amthla/the examples
                      2435 l-amthla/the examples
                      2539 l-amthla/the examples
                      2943 l-amthlu/the examples
                      5921 l-amthlu/the examples

                      these are different (no extra alif)

                      3182 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                      4153 biul'mihim/in wrong/injustice theirs
                      4160 fabiul'min/so in wrong/injustice
                      682 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                      6131 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                      11117 biul'min/in wrong/injustice
                      1661 biul'mihim/in wrong/injustice theirs
                      2225 biul'min/in wrong/injustice

                      (with extra alif)
                      851 such in what have set forth hands yours and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?
                      2210 such in what have set forth hands your and that the god not is biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?
                      4146 who work righteous of so for soul his/himself and who does evil so against it and not lord your biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?
                      5029 not changed the speech with me and not I am biallmin/in darkness to the devotees?

                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/182/handschrift/163

                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/51/handschrift/163

                      What is your theory, understanding on these differences?

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • I Offline
                        I Offline
                        imrankhawaja
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #83

                        Why do I think this verse is indicating to us how to spell the letter N in 681?
                        There are 14 different initial letters used in Qoran, this verse is screaming N the initial (The only one in 681) also is spelt like the N in this verse. Count how many N s in it?
                        Yes brother GOD has put exactly 14 N s in that verse as indication.

                        so your thinking has nothing to do with God decision isnt it ? the answer you gave is just your thinking not the reality.

                        BOLD so what ?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • G Offline
                          G Offline
                          good_logic
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #84

                          Peace Imran.
                          Like I said to you. Accountability dictates that each of us check for themselves.
                          If you are happy with your lot(Your old manuscripts) ,it is your choice.
                          I am happy with mine(after checking for myself the mathematical structure).

                          As for the message, it is crystal clear in both our mushafs . So I wish you the best of works/morals brother.
                          This is the most important thing in Qoran.(Inna Akramakum inda Allah Atkaakum)
                          GOD bless you.
                          Peace.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • N Offline
                            N Offline
                            Noon_waalqalami
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #85

                            Peace, last post need to take a break...

                            2187

                            Why do I think this verse is indicating to us how to spell the letter N in 681?
                            There are 14 different initial letters used in Qoran, this verse is screaming N the initial

                            681 noon wal-qalami/and the pen and what yasurna/they write being (i.e. writing)

                            Furthermore, does not spell N (noon) rather parse the word ?

                            2187 l-nuni/the noon being

                            the
                            N (noon)
                            being (i.e. so-called)

                            Likewise, see example ?

                            4917 yamunnna/favored being ... yamunnu/favored

                            What is your theory, understanding on these differences?

                            Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

                            482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of in it ikhtilafan/divergences of (single occurrence) kathiran/much of (3+)

                            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/50/vers/29?handschrift=163

                            https//i.postimg.cc/nL6Rn8s7/ch50v14-34.jpg

                            https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/50/vers/29?handschrift=32

                            https//i.postimg.cc/0j9CN996/ch50v26-43.jpg

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • G Offline
                              G Offline
                              good_logic
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #86

                              Peace Noon.
                              Common brother, the "being" word is made up here i
                              2187 l-nuni/the noon being

                              the
                              N (noon)
                              being (i.e. so-called)

                              So-called what? There is no word "being" in the verse. The word in the verse just means the letter N .
                              There is no relation to 4917 yamunnna/favored being ... yamunnu/favoured.

                              Enjoy your break brother.
                              GOD bless you.
                              Peace.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • I Offline
                                I Offline
                                ibn_a
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #87

                                Salaam,

                                Peace, last post need to take a break...

                                Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

                                482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of in it ikhtilafan/divergences of (single occurrence) kathiran/much of (3+)

                                When you have time, please share what you consider as consistent "oldest manuscripts" that you are referring to.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  Noon_waalqalami
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #88

                                  When you have time, please share what you consider as consistent "oldest manuscripts" that you are referring to.

                                  Peace gave numerous examples including ten consistently spelled not half spelled (same word).

                                  1. 1317 the examples

                                  2. 1425 the examples

                                  3. 1445 the examples

                                  4. 1674 the examples

                                  5. 1748 the examples

                                  6. 259 the examples

                                  7. 2435 the examples

                                  8. 2539 the examples

                                  9. 2943 the examples

                                  10. 5921 the examples

                                  1317 l-amthla/the examples
                                  https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/13/vers/17?handschrift=13
                                  https//i.postimg.cc/j2r4kf5J/ch13v12-v23.jpg

                                  1674 l-amthla/the examples
                                  UNESCO ?Memory of the World? Program ?San?a Manuscripts CD First AH 1673-89
                                  https//i.postimg.cc/SQCBN0Bm/ch16v73-89.jpg

                                  1748 l-amthla/the examples
                                  https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/49?handschrift=107
                                  https//i.postimg.cc/YqZJ2nh6/ch17v46-56.jpg

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    ibn_a
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #89

                                    Salaam,

                                    peace gl, your infatuation with nineteen is making you lose sense of basic logic.
                                    it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

                                    NOT consistent extra alif 130140500130 in current manuscript/s and should be...

                                    1317 ... yaribu/striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                                    1425 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                                    1445 ... waarabn/and strike we of for you l-amthla/the examples
                                    1674 so not tarib/thou strike ye of to god l-amthla/the examples
                                    1748 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of

                                    These verses consistent in current manuscript/s (no extra alif) as in oldest manuscripts...

                                    259 observe how arab/strike they of to you l-amthla/the examples so astray they of so not capable being path of
                                    2435 ... wayaribu/and striketh the god l-amthla/the examples
                                    2539 ... arabn/strike we of to him l-amthla/the examples
                                    2943 and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind and not understand them except the knowing
                                    5921 ... and those l-amthlu/the examples naribuh/we strike them to the humankind perhaps they reflecting

                                    Some examples of differences in the spelling of words from what you call " consistent oldest manuscripts".

                                    Example

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/218/handschrift/163
                                    line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/56/handschrift/163
                                    line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/73/handschrift/163
                                    line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/30/vers/50?handschrift=107
                                    line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                    -- Compare to

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/107?handschrift=163
                                    line 21 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/39/vers/53?handschrift=163
                                    line 23-24 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                    Example

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/38?handschrift=163
                                    line 20-21 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/35/vers/43?handschrift=163
                                    line 19-20 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/40/vers/85?handschrift=163
                                    line 19-20 ( the) Way (of) Allah

                                    -- Compare to

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/13?handschrift=163
                                    line 9 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/55?handschrift=163
                                    line 3 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                    https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/33/vers/38?handschrift=107
                                    last line ( the) Way (of) Allah


                                    I think that the particular spelling of some words in the Quran we have today is not inconsistent, it is for a purpose and in time the purpose will be revealed by God.

                                    Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

                                    There is no logique in saying that the scribes changed the spelling of the word Ibraheem only in chapter 2 and not in the rest of the Quran, they must have had a source for these particular spellings.

                                    Cautious when saying "inconsistent" about the current manuscript especially when in condradiction with Quran veses referring to the the preservation of the Quran by God.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      Noon_waalqalami
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #90

                                      Some examples of differences in the spelling of words from what you call " consistent oldest manuscripts".

                                      Example

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/218/handschrift/163
                                      line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/56/handschrift/163
                                      line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/73/handschrift/163
                                      line 3 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/30/vers/50?handschrift=107
                                      line 9 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                      -- Compare to

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/107?handschrift=163
                                      line 21 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/39/vers/53?handschrift=163
                                      line 23-24 - Mercy / Grace of God

                                      peace, same in ?new? manuscripts slight distinction verb & verbal noun from root raima/mercy

                                      3938 ? biramatin/in mercy its shall they with-holders ramatihi/mercy his ?

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/39/vers/38/handschrift/163

                                      https//i.postimg.cc/ZKkw3BwB/ch39v33-44.jpg

                                      Example

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/8/vers/38?handschrift=163
                                      line 20-21 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/35/vers/43?handschrift=163
                                      line 19-20 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/40/vers/85?handschrift=163
                                      line 19-20 ( the) Way (of) Allah

                                      -- Compare to

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/15/vers/13?handschrift=163
                                      line 9 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/55?handschrift=163
                                      line 3 - Way (of) the former (people)

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/33/vers/38?handschrift=107
                                      last line ( the) Way (of) Allah

                                      again same in ?new? manuscripts slight nuance/distinction ?

                                      1777 sunnata/manner from hence sent we of before you from messengers ours and not thou find lisunnatina/to manner its ours turning

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/77/handschrift/163

                                      https//i.postimg.cc/Dzqvvbpr/ch17v67-79.jpg

                                      Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

                                      likewise it was already shown to you numerous times that the oldest manuscripts "consistently" spelled abraham (same word/person) in all chapters and chapter 2 "inconsistency" appears ~200+ years afterwards and likewise the new verse arrangement separating 18 of ?29? initialed chapters into separate verses, etc.

                                      https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/124?handschrift=163

                                      https//i.postimg.cc/XYL4G0ch/ch2v121-132.jpg

                                      1. 21 alif lam meem such the book not doubt in it guidance for the righteous
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/1?handschrift=116

                                      2. 31 alif lam meem the god not deity except he the alive the sustainer
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/3/vers/1/handschrift/116

                                      3. 71 alif lam meem saad book descends to you so not beeth in breast your critical from it to thou warn with it and reminder to the believers
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      4. 101 alif lam ra those signs the book the wise

                                      5. 111 alif lam ra book are perfected signs/verses its furthermore explained from one who wise aware

                                      6. 121 alif lam ra those signs the book the clear

                                      7. 131 alif lam meem ra those signs the book and the which descends to you from lord your the truth and however more the humankind not believing

                                      8. 141 alif lam ra book descends we it to you that thou evict the humankind from the darkness to the light by permission lord theirs to path the mighty the praiseworthy

                                      9. 151 alif lam ra those signs the book and qur?an/recitation clear

                                      10. 191 kaaf ha ya ain saad remembrance mercy lord your devotee his zakariyya
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/19/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      11. 201 ta ha not descends we of upon you the qur?an/recitation that thou agonize
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      12. 261 ta seen mim those signs the book the clear
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/26/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      13. 271 ta seen those signs the qur?an/recitation and book clear

                                      14. 281 ta seen mim those signs the book the clear
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/28/vers/1?handschrift=107

                                      15. 291 alif lam meem do calculate the humankind that left they of that speaketh they of believe we of and they not tested being
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/29/vers/1/handschrift/107

                                      16. 301 alif lam meem ghalabat/triumph the romans
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/30/vers/1/handschrift/107

                                      17. 311 alif lam meem those signs the book the wise
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/31/vers/1/handschrift/107

                                      18. 321 alif lam meem revelation the book not doubt in it from lord the world?s inhabitants
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/32/vers/1/handschrift/107

                                      19. 361 ya seen and the qur?an/recitation the wise
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/36/vers/1/handschrift/107

                                      20. 381 saad and the qur?an/recitation owner the reminder

                                      21. 401 ha meem revelation the book from the god the mighty the knower
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/40/vers/1?handschrift=163

                                      22. 411 ha meem revelation from the almighty the merciful
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/41/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      23. 421 ha meem ayn seen qaf like such inspired to you and toward the ones from before you the god the mighty the wise
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/42/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      24. 431 ha meem and the book the clear
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/43/vers/1?handschrift=163

                                      25. 441 ha meem and the book the clear
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/44/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      26. 451 ha meem revelation the book from the god the mighty the wise
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/45/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      27. 461 ha meem revelation the book from the god the mighty the wise
                                        https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/46/vers/1/handschrift/163

                                      28. 501 qaf and the qur?an/recitation the glorious

                                      29. 681 noon wal-qalami/and the pen and what they write being

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • I Offline
                                        I Offline
                                        ibn_a
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #91

                                        Salaam,

                                        it's not about original (same word/phrases need to be consistent) see examples.

                                        Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

                                        • I gave you some examples of differences in spelling of words from what you consider" consistent oldest manuscripts"

                                        • The particular spelling in current manuscript and in some older manuscripts is for a purpose and is not the result of inconsistency,
                                          otherwise this would condradict with Quran verses referring to the the preservation of the Quran by God.

                                        likewise it was already shown to you numerous times that the oldest manuscripts "consistently" spelled abraham (same word/person) in all chapters and chapter 2 "inconsistency" appears ~200+ years afterwards and likewise the new verse arrangement separating 18 of 29 initialed chapters into separate verses, etc.

                                        There is no logique in changing the spelling only in chapter 2 for the word Ibraheem,
                                        and changing the arrangement of the initialed chapters only in 19 chapters and not in the rest of the 29 initialed chapters,
                                        they must have had a source for these particular spellings and arrangement of verses.

                                        Allah knows best.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • I Offline
                                          I Offline
                                          ibn_a
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #92

                                          Salaam,

                                          Oldest manuscripts are consistent while those ~200 years afterward contain inconsistencies.

                                          Another example of what you consider " inconsistent" from what you consider "consistent oldest manuscripts"

                                          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/11/vers/27?handschrift=163

                                          Manuscript line 7

                                          Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma naraka illa basharan mithlana wama naraka ittabaAAaka illa allatheena hum arathiluna badiya alrra/yi wama nara lakum AAalayna min fadlin bal nathunnukum kathibeena

                                          So said the chiefs (of) those who disbelieved from his people, "Not we see you but a man like us, and not we see you followed except those who (are) the lowest of us immature in opinion. And not we see in you over us any merit; nay, we think you (are) liars."

                                          compare to

                                          https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/23/vers/24?handschrift=163

                                          Manuscript line 2 with an extra Waw between the letter Laam and the letter Alif

                                          Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma hatha illa basharun mithlukum yureedu an yatafaddala AAalaykum walaw shaa Allahu laanzala mala-ikatan ma samiAAna bihatha fee aba-ina al-awwaleena

                                          But said the chiefs (of) those who disbelieved among his people, "This is not but a man like you, he wishes to assert (his) superiority over you, and if Allah had willed surely He (would have) sent down Angels. Not we heard of this from our forefathers.

                                          I believe that the current manuscript with the particular spelling of some words is the same as the original manuscript.
                                          And that in some other manuscripts some of this particular spelling was lost by some scribes thinking that the same words should be spelled the same way,
                                          not aware that this particular spelling was intended for a purpose.
                                          Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya in the rest of the Quran.

                                          Allah knows best.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users