Muhammad not mentioned in the Koran...
-
Salaam ApplePie,
Albiet it is obvious you do not even have knowledge of the Bible and confuse Biblical concepts with man made concepts. You are trying to apply these concepts, which you will not find in the Bible at all, to the quran. Your whole argument is thus baseless because the quran is not from the Bible you are purporting. You know nothing of the Bible and I doubt you are even a Christian. I'm sick of your antics, attributing lies to the Bible, and then the quran. Then as Oben has pointed out you erroneously substitute Jesus for God.
Joe
P.S. Jesus does NOT know the hour as it is clearly said in the Bible. Otherwise you explain the inherent contradiction ApplePie.
Concerning that day and hour NOBODY knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor THE SON, but ONLY THE FATHER.
-
Salaam ApplePie,
You poor, poor person. Revelation was not descended from Jesus. Clearly it is from God.
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE HIM, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented in signs through him to his slave John,
Joe
-
Greetings Joe,
Thanks for your comments?
Albiet it is obvious you do not even have knowledge of the Bible and confuse Biblical concepts with man made concepts.
Now?where would this be Joe??
You are trying to apply these concepts, which you will not find in the Bible at all, to the quran.
I have shown you otherwise, Joe?
Please feel completely free to verify for yourself as truth?
Your whole argument is thus baseless because the quran is not from the Bible you are purporting.
The authors who penned the Koran state otherwise?
You know nothing of the Bible and I doubt you are even a Christian.
You would be wrong on both counts?
I'm sick of your antics, attributing lies to the Bible, and then the quran.
I speak only verifiable truth?
Perhaps this is what has made you so angry? wink
Then as Oben has pointed out you erroneously substitute Jesus for God.
I substituted nothing.
This is what the scriptures state.
The only substitution has occurred in the Koran?.where the authors who penned it have attempted to wrap the (prior pagan Arab god ?allah?) with deity previously ascribed unto Jesus?!
P.S. Jesus does NOT know the hour as it is clearly said in the Bible. Otherwise you explain the inherent contradiction ApplePie.
Concerning that day and hour NOBODY knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor THE SON, but ONLY THE FATHER.
Observe the 12 examples that I gave you.
They are all from the Book of Revelation.
The vantage point in this Book is described emanating from Heaven.
Thus, it is abundantly clear that Jesus is indeed God Almighty who reigns in Heaven?and He indeed knows the hour?
Take care?
-
Greetings Joe,
Thanks for your comments?
You poor, poor person. Revelation was not descended from Jesus. Clearly it is from God.
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE HIM, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented in signs through him to his slave John,
And?.we already know that Jesus is God?as His divinity is interchangeable through-out the whole book?
Take care?
-
Salaam Apple,
And?.we already know that Jesus is God?as His divinity is interchangeable through-out the whole book?
LOL, divinity is never applied to Jesus throughout the scripture . We already know God is a term used to refer to any person holding authority or representing God or any idol . This is prevalent throughout the scripture .
Now?where would this be Joe??
Read the statement you quoted and you would not have asked such an assinine question. Go ahead read it again and maybe you'll pick up on it.
The authors who penned the Koran state otherwise?
No they do not. You add meanings to words that should not be there. That is why you come up with these wild ideas.
You would be wrong on both counts?
I beg to differ. ) It's clear you have renounced Jesus by crying lies to him.
I speak only verifiable truth?
Perhaps this is what has made you so angry?
The blind can verify what is false simply because they will try ignore all evidence to the contrary which you have clearly done. shock
Where the righteous progress in understanding you fumble and fall into the pile of lies about you .
This is what the scriptures state.
No, it is really what you state in contrast to the Bible.
Observe the 12 examples that I gave you.
I will refrain from explaining your examples to you until you can explain me the contradiction between your citations and mine in Mt 2436.
-
Greetings truth,
Thanks for your reply?
What you have shown in the examples in the quote below is how the word "Jesus" was substituted for God in christian scriptures. That's all.
Now?this is interesting?
You have just acknowledged that Jesus is the equivalent of God, as His name has been used interchangeably with God.
Now?you are beginning to understand the concept of the Holy Trinity.
Most excellent?.!
PEACE.
-
Salaam,
And?.we already know that Jesus is God?as His divinity is interchangeable through-out the whole book?
I forgot to mention that you still ignore the scripture. How can you honestly say that the God spoken of here is Jesus when Jesus is the one recieving in order to give unto others? lol You're like a boxer, you like to side step.
Joe
-
Salaam,
You're like a boxer, you like to side step.
lol lol I like to call it The christian shuffle.
He absolutely refuses to answer just one simple question I asked. When in doubt, ignore the question. Insecurity will do that to a person.
Damon.
-
Salaam,
You're like a boxer, you like to side step.
lol lol I like to call it The christian shuffle.
He absolutely refuses to answer just one simple question I asked. When in doubt, ignore the question. Insecurity will do that to a person.
Damon.
Peace,
Worse yet, Apple Pie does not even try to acknowledge that the topic of this thread, which is the accusation that 'Muhammad' is not found the Qur'an, has been refuted decisively by other earlier posts. It's like this
Apple Pie Muhammad is not in the Qur'an
Various FM members Yes he is,
Apple Pie Lalalalala I can't hear you... Muhammad is not in the Qur'an
I wonder if sidestepping and/or bringing up issues that has been refuted breaches any forum rules?
ps Bro Damon, sorry for my careless comment. I have erased it now.
-
Peace Apple Pie,
Jesus knows the hour?.allah knows the hour
Hour, Koran 1677
Hour, Book of Revelation (33, 310, 915, 1113, 147, 1415, 1712, 1810, 1817, 1819)Khi- This is absolutely wrong. Jesus does NOT know the hour according 2 the Bible
Matthew 2436 (New International Version)
?No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the FATHER.Some manuscripts do not contain the phrase 'nor the son' but this only shows further inconsistency n we see how sometimes the argument is over crucial phrases missing. However even without tht Jesus clearly said tht ONLY HIS FATHER knew it. Since the father is a separate person even acording 2 Trinitarians it wld make no sense 4 Jesus 2 say tht ONLY HIS FAHER knew it if he himself knew it also. Then he wld have said 'only GOD knew it'. So it is clear tht Jesus did not know the hour. Btw u r referring from the Book od revelation which is considered doubtful by many Christian theologians anyway. U shld have quoted from the four gospels. GOD Bless!
-
Peace yall
The christian word and subject tango is really fun to watch. But now it has gone for long enough
http//www.postfun.com/pfp/bible/bored/bigbored.gif
-
Peace all,
Very often when two sides are debating with eachother... it's just a big demonstration of the "home-team syndrome"... the "us-and-them perspective".
Without sincere seeking for knowledge and bravery of risking beeing wrong... debates turn into totally useless, "parallel monologues", such as this thread.
If your mind is made up - it's made up... and nothing will change it. No reason, exposure to truth or proof will work.
Further, proofs and evidence can be anything the debater likes. Usually the two debaters throw opposing proofs at eachother... just creating more mess.Once upon a time, I was told by a nice s.c. convert muslim that I should check Islam out, and I'll find it's the real thing. I though to my self - "yeah, yeah, how can islam be right.. christianity is much older, and therefor must be more correct, simply since it came first" . . . that was how I was thinking.. not very intelligent. Actually, I didn't really believe that christiany was better or more true... I was just becoming defensive and I chose to mentally side with what was most familiar to me at that time. I wasn't thinking much at all.
Later though, I developed a completely new perspective... pretty much "identical" to main the ideas you find here on free-minds. I find it silly to see how people defend things out of ignorance... but I know how... even I did once to some degree.
If I realise that a debate is going nowhere... I prefer to leave it as soon as possible.... although I admit I sometimes do like to keep on throwing arguments back at the opponent since I "know" I'm true. I have a big problem with people following things that are obviously logically false.
A hint to ApplePie Your attempts to falsify quranic islam will reach NOWHERE here on this forum. It's just no use.
A question to ApplePie Which is most important... to be a christian or to follow the truth?? If christiany is true.. then congratulations to you.... but if it is NOT, then wouldn't you like to find the truth?? Is it more important to keep up with cultural traditions than to boldly seek the truth, (without preconceived opinions and a pre-established truth)???
Isn't truth most important WHATEVER it turns out to be???!???
When looking for the truth we MUST NOT already have a picture of it in our mind. We will always see what we want to see. We kind of create our own truths, deceiving our selves.
Peace to ApplePie, Damon and all
-
Greetings Joe,
Thanks for your kind words?
Apple Pie wrote
And?.we already know that Jesus is God?as His divinity is interchangeable through-out the whole book?LOL, divinity is never applied to Jesus throughout the scripture . We already know God is a term used to refer to any person holding authority or representing God or any idol . This is prevalent throughout the scripture .
Pleasure?
2Pe 11 Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those equally precious with us, having obtained faith in the righteousness of our God and our Savior, Jesus Christ
2Pe 12 Grace to you, and peace be multiplied by a full knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord.
2Pe 13 As His divine power has given to us all things pertaining to life and godliness through the full knowledge of the One calling us through glory and virtue,
2Pe 14 by which means He has given to us the very great and precious promises, so that through these you might be partakers of the divine nature, escaping from the corruption in the world by lust.
2Pe 15 But also in this very thing, having brought in all diligence, having fully supplied in your faith virtue, and with virtue knowledge,
2Pe 16 and with the knowledge self-control, and with the self-control patience, and with the patience godliness,
2Pe 17 and with the godliness brotherly love, and with brotherly love, love.Apple Pie wrote
Observe the 12 examples that I gave you.I will refrain from explaining your examples to you until you can explain me the contradiction between your citations and mine in Mt 2436.
Pleasure?
Observe the vantage point of the son (Jesus)?
Mat 2429 And immediately after the affliction of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 2430 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory. Dan. 713
Mat 2431 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens to their ends.
Mat 2432 But learn the parable of the fig tree When its branch becomes tender and it puts out leaves, you know that the summer is near;
Mat 2433 so also you, when you see all these things, know that it is near at the doors.
Mat 2434 Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things have occurred.
Mat 2435 The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away, never!
Mat 2436 But as to that day and that hour, no one knows, neither the angels of Heaven, except My Father only.
Mat 2437 But as the days of Noah, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 2438 For as they were in the days before the flood eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah went into the ark.
Mat 2439 And they did not know until the flood came and took all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 2440 At that time two will be out in the field; the one is taken away, and the one is left;
Mat 2441 two grinding at the mill; one is taken away, and one is left.
Mat 2442 Watch, then, for you do not know in what hour your Lord comes.
Mat 2443 But know this, that if the housemaster had known in what watch the thief comes, he would have watched and not have allowed his house to be dug through.
Mat 2444 Because of this, you also be ready, for in that hour you think not, the Son of Man comes.
Mat 2445 Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom his Lord has set over His household, to give to them the food in season?
Mat 2446 Blessed is that servant whom his Lord shall find so doing when He comes.
Mat 2447 Truly I say to you, He will set him over all His substance.
Mat 2448 But if that wicked slave says in his heart, My Lord delays to come,
Mat 2449 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and to drink with the ones drinking,
Mat 2450 the Lord of that slave will come in a day in which he does not expect and in an hour which he does not know,
Mat 2451 and will cut him in two, and will appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth.First of all, observe that we are quite clearly told that Jesus is indeed God by the manner in which He returns?
Jesus will be coming with the clouds?.allah will be coming with the clouds
Coming with the Clouds, Koran 2210
Coming with the Clouds, Book of Revelation (17, 101, 1112, 1414-16); Dan 7.13; Mat 24.30Obviously?.if allah is coming with the clouds; and Jesus is coming with the Clouds, then that would make Jesus the equal of God would it not??
Allah would not align his ?deity? with anything other than the real thing?.right?
Secondly, the vantage point of the son is as God in the Flesh.
Observe the vantage point described in Revelation, as it is now from the point of view of Heaven?
Rev 33 Then remember how you received and heard, and keep, and repent. If, then, you do not watch, I will come upon you like a thief and you will not at all know what hour I come upon you.
It is clear that these Biblical verses are describing the Triune nature of the One God
Jesus is God
Father is God
Spirit is God.Hope this helps?.Joe
-
Greetings Andya Primanda,
Thanks for your comments?
Worse yet, Apple Pie does not even try to acknowledge that the topic of this thread, which is the accusation that 'Muhammad' is not found the Qur'an, has been refuted decisively by other earlier posts.
I appreciate you attempting to keep this thread on track.
As you can see?this is a most difficult task when dealing with Muslims, as they have great difficulty in staying focused on one topic.
Hence?I have allowed for considerable leeway in this post?as even the moderators can?t seem to keep on track?
-
Greetings Andya Primanda,
Thanks for your comments?
Worse yet, Apple Pie does not even try to acknowledge that the topic of this thread, which is the accusation that 'Muhammad' is not found the Qur'an, has been refuted decisively by other earlier posts.
I appreciate you attempting to keep this thread on track.
As you can see?this is a most difficult task when dealing with Muslims, as they have great difficulty in staying focused on one topic.
Hence?I have allowed for considerable leeway in this post?as even the moderators can?t seem to keep on track?
Then I would like you to address why you ignore the posts that say 'Muhammad' is mentioned in this thread.
A short statement of "I admit I am wrong, 'Muhammad' is mentioned in the Qur'an" from you would be fine, if you are a fair debater.
But your point about moderating is good. At least mods should try to keep discussions on track, and tell people in spin-off discussions to open new threads.
-
Salaams,
you guys are trying to convince apple pie about one thing when he isn't searching/finding but telling you guys another- everytime you say
sh-t isn't good to eat he says it looks and it smells rotten but its made of all these minerals which are good for .So i would leave people like that far alone in the field of Godliness - But I do believe he is still better in certain ways then a traditional muslim as to me they are more of idolaters then are people like apple pie.
No disrespects to anyone.
God Bless.
-
Greetings Andya Primanda,
Thanks for your reply?
Then I would like you to address why you ignore the posts that say 'Muhammad' is mentioned in this thread.
A short statement of "I admit I am wrong, 'Muhammad' is mentioned in the Qur'an" from you would be fine, if you are a fair debater.
Let?s start here?
First of all?please show us ALL of the ayahs that you feel mention the ?prophet? of your book of faith.
Secondly, tell us why you think that the ayahs are describing your ?prophet??.
Thanks?
-
hello applie pie,
i am going to add my 2 cents here. perhaps your inability to understand why the muslims here do not really care for your question stems from a difference of backgrounds.
the HUGE difference between christianity and islam is that for christians, Jesus the person is of the utmost importance himself. He is, you might say, the centerpiece.
However, Muhammad is not the centerpiece of Islam. Though he is loved and revered, Muslims do that out of their own hearts, not by any command in the Quran. The Quran is not meant to be a tale of Muhammad, (whereas the Bible is mostly tales/stories about Prophets). The Quran is meant at the utmost to be guide for how a successful society should be built. Muslims do not gain salvation through Muhammad, and his personality is only secondary, whereas for Christians, Jesus the person is critical.
That is why it appears so out of place that you yourself are obsessed with proving/disproving the person Muhammad. To us, all the evidence points to his existence and his being the Prophet... certainly no OTHER person is mentioned in the context of delivering the Quran. BUT despite that, for us it is not really all that critical... it is of historical interest, but our main goal is to implement the teachings of the Quran.
Your claim that the "authors" of the Quran felt the Bible was the true book and copied its stories seems rather silly, if you read the Quran in regards to the false deification of Jesus and how he was not crucified. There may be some superficial similarity in SOME of the stories in the Bible and the Quran, but the similarity ends there.. these are totally different books.
The others here have already answered your earlier questions, so there's no need for me to get into that.
-
Greetings shuaib,
Thanks for your reply?
That is why it appears so out of place that you yourself are obsessed with proving/disproving the person Muhammad. To us, all the evidence points to his existence and his being the Prophet...
Are you speaking from the vantage point of the Koran?.or of Islam??
As the two are quite different?
certainly no OTHER person is mentioned in the context of delivering the Quran.
Oh really?..?
BUT despite that, for us it is not really all that critical... it is of historical interest,
Perhaps because you follow Islam instead of the Koran?
but our main goal is to implement the teachings of the Quran.
The teachings of Islam?.or the Koran?.?
Your claim that the "authors" of the Quran felt the Bible was the true book and copied its stories seems rather silly,
First of all, it?s not my claim, but the authors who penned the text as we know it today?
Secondly, the authors of the Koran fall all over themselves in proclaiming that they indeed utilized the trustworthy Jewish and Christian scriptures in their opus?
if you read the Quran in regards to the false deification of Jesus and how he was not crucified.
Actually, the Koran loudly and proudly confirms the deity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as well as His Crucifixion and subsequent Resurrection.
If you take the time to study the classic Arabic, then you cannot help but see this?
There may be some superficial similarity in SOME of the stories in the Bible and the Quran, but the similarity ends there.. these are totally different books.
Some similarity?..?
Thanks?