The Message - Update

adley

Salaam Layth,

I just skimmed the new translation. Well, the first thing to be noticed is the difference in the introductory essays. Especially in the section where it is listed what the quran is, any reason why you took out the one that talks about revealed by a higher power?

The next one is the numbering of ayats. I second to Damon in this one. Perhaps it will be easier for us and people who are interested in learning the quran to have a translation whose numbering follows the one used most. I know this does not mean that the popular numbering is the most correct; it's easier that's all.

Also, I agree with Tay on the issue of shalat. Just leave it untranslated, so the readers are free to draw their own conclusions about this concept. Perhaps zakat, haj, and a few others as well.

Just my Rp 2 ;D

=adley=

stoked_youth

Peace,

Awesome! yay I like the word Bond more than contact-method just because the word contact-method is a bit too awkward in my opinion.
I've checked those verses mentioned by Wakas, and I agree that those translations actually sound better and fit the context better also.

Peace and Kia Ora

Wakas

Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.

wildguest1956

Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.

Why is the word jinn left untranslated ?

adley

Salaam /JM/,

You raise an interesting question and this is too, probably, a problem if we want to translate "Salat" but leave this one untranslated.

Even though I understand "Salat" as bond (among other meanings) I still think it will be a lot more fun for people to research this "Salat" issue themselves. D

I understand though that leaving it untranslated may cause confusion, especially to those who haven't read the quran at all before.

=adley=

zenje

Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.

The next one is the numbering of ayats. I second to Damon in this one.

Me three! http//i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/zenje/yes.gif

Wakas

Why is the word jinn left untranslated ?

Ask Layth, not me.

Al_Khidr

Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.

Salaam Wakas

I'm curious why wouldn't you consider leaving it as is in the Qur'aan which is "Salaat"?

I am finding it interesting how people are translating "Salaat" differently. The Progressive Muslim now changed it to "Bond" and Safar translates it as "the commitment"...

Salaam

Wakas

I'm curious why wouldn't you consider leaving it as is in the Qur'aan which is "Salaat"?

I do not consider it an option as a translation is just that, a translation. It is not a proper noun in 'al quran', so why the capital "S"?

I am finding it interesting how people are translating "Salaat" differently. The Progressive Muslim now changed it to "Bond" and Safar translates it as "the commitment"...

I strongly recommend you looking up any Classical Arabic dictionary and seeing what it says about "salat" and its root "sawd-lam-waw", and reflecting upon how they too have seemingly translated "salat" differently.

adley

Salaam Wakas,

I do not consider it an option as a translation is just that, a translation. It is not a proper noun in 'al quran', so why the capital "S"?

Even though this was not addressed to me, I sometimes write it as "Salat" due to the letter Sawd used. Most of the times, I write it as "shalat" however this may confuse some people. The thing is, in Indonesian, Sawd is transliterated as "sh" while for a lot of English speaking person, "sh" means letter Shiin and "s" means the letter Siin. Thus, I use "S" to indicate Sawd. So, I always try to write it "muSaliina" rather than "mushaliina" whenever I'm conversing in English.

And yes, it is just a common noun. D

=adley=

Layth

Peace all,

Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.

This has already been done nearly 2-3 months back...If you check the on-line version of The Message you will see it follows the old Hafs numbering.

Why is the word jinn left untranslated ?

I recall there was an impass on which translation fits best some years back on this issue...

If you can provide the best translation for the word, it would gladly be changed in The Message as we want to avoid using Arabic words in an English translation.

Layth

Peace,

Can anybody here who is directly involved with the Progressive Muslims organization provide myself with a list of names of the ones who are responsible for translating the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?

I did the base translation originally, then amendments/changes were continually made based on the input and suggestions of a large number of members (you can see who if you search for old posts with the title or wording The Message.

Layth

Peace,

just skimmed the new translation. Well, the first thing to be noticed is the difference in the introductory essays. Especially in the section where it is listed what the quran is, any reason why you took out the one that talks about revealed by a higher power?

I don`t recall this change...Do you have the original essay or reference so that I could look at it?

adley

Salaam Layth,

I took this from the previous version (Updated August 21st, 2005).
The numbering of ayats, of course, will be different from the current version.

The Scripture and The Quran
.
.
.
Some of the features of the ?Quran? have been recorded as follows

Quran can humble a mountain (5922).
Quran cannot be replicated by men and Jinn (1789).
Quran contains a healing for the hearts (1783).
Quran is what the prophet?s followers have abandoned (2531).
Quran is without doubt revealed by a higher power (277).
Quran is to be paid attention to when read (7205).
Quran disturbs the disbelievers with its words (1016).
Quran gives detail to the Scripture (103.
Quran is related to the 7 pairs (158.
Quran creates a barrier of for those who disbelieve to understand it (1746).
Quran alone makes the disbelievers run away in aversion (1747).
Quran is recited at dawn (1779).
Quran is full of examples cited for mankind (1790).
Quran contains the ?Zikr?/Reminder (382).
Quran disturbs the rejecters, they seek to speak over it (4126).
Quran is to be used to warn people with (621).
Quran has been made easy to learn (541.
Quran is preserved in a tablet (8522-23).
.
.
.

Hope that helps.

=adley=

Al_Khidr

Salaam Wakas

I capitalize the "S" in Salaat to place emphasize on the word.

Wakas are you one of the members of the Progressive Muslims who helped translated the Qur'aan in English?

Can anybody in here provide myself with a list of names of the people who translated the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?

adley

Salaam Al Khidr,

I thought Layth has already answered your last question. Just check his post above. Or you can use the search feature of this forum. Just input "the message" (quotes inlcuded) and choose the General and the Projects forum. You should hit some helpful threads. Hope that helps.

=adley=

Al_Khidr

Salaam adley

Thanks for highlighting that for me, I must of over looked it. I got a chance to read it and Layth answered my question.

Salaam Al Khidr,

I thought Layth has already answered your last question. Just check his post above. Or you can use the search feature of this forum. Just input "the message" (quotes inlcuded) and choose the General and the Projects forum. You should hit some helpful threads. Hope that helps.

=adley=

Al_Khidr

Salaam Layth

Thanks for the response to my question. I have another question. If I'm not mistaken you and Edip worked together on his up coming translation that will be out soon, right? If so what are some of the unique differences between that translation and the Progressive Muslim translation of Qur'aan?

Peace,

Can anybody here who is directly involved with the Progressive Muslims organization provide myself with a list of names of the ones who are responsible for translating the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?

I did the base translation originally, then amendments/changes were continually made based on the input and suggestions of a large number of members (you can see who if you search for old posts with the title or wording The Message.

Layth

Salam Khidr,

Thanks for the response to my question. I have another question. If I'm not mistaken you and Edip worked together on his up coming translation that will be out soon, right? If so what are some of the unique differences between that translation and the Progressive Muslim translation of Qur'aan?

The upcomming translation uses the last version of The Message as its base with some changes introduced on certain words & phrases. The key difference is the presence of footnotes and explanations (written by Edip) while The Message is just a literal translation which leaves the reader to find his/her meanings.

unknownuser

Peace Layth

It would be nice if you answered my question. What is the significance of changing the translation from contact-method to bond?
Thanks Sis Elke for your reply, hopefully i could find out from him an explanation.
Peace All