The Message - Update
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Salaam /JM/,
You raise an interesting question and this is too, probably, a problem if we want to translate "Salat" but leave this one untranslated.
Even though I understand "Salat" as bond (among other meanings) I still think it will be a lot more fun for people to research this "Salat" issue themselves. D
I understand though that leaving it untranslated may cause confusion, especially to those who haven't read the quran at all before.
=adley=
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Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.
The next one is the numbering of ayats. I second to Damon in this one.
Me three! http//i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/zenje/yes.gif
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Leaving it as "salat" is not an option I would consider.
Salaam Wakas
I'm curious why wouldn't you consider leaving it as is in the Qur'aan which is "Salaat"?
I am finding it interesting how people are translating "Salaat" differently. The Progressive Muslim now changed it to "Bond" and Safar translates it as "the commitment"...
Salaam
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I'm curious why wouldn't you consider leaving it as is in the Qur'aan which is "Salaat"?
I do not consider it an option as a translation is just that, a translation. It is not a proper noun in 'al quran', so why the capital "S"?
I am finding it interesting how people are translating "Salaat" differently. The Progressive Muslim now changed it to "Bond" and Safar translates it as "the commitment"...
I strongly recommend you looking up any Classical Arabic dictionary and seeing what it says about "salat" and its root "sawd-lam-waw", and reflecting upon how they too have seemingly translated "salat" differently.
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Salaam Wakas,
I do not consider it an option as a translation is just that, a translation. It is not a proper noun in 'al quran', so why the capital "S"?
Even though this was not addressed to me, I sometimes write it as "Salat" due to the letter Sawd used. Most of the times, I write it as "shalat" however this may confuse some people. The thing is, in Indonesian, Sawd is transliterated as "sh" while for a lot of English speaking person, "sh" means letter Shiin and "s" means the letter Siin. Thus, I use "S" to indicate Sawd. So, I always try to write it "muSaliina" rather than "mushaliina" whenever I'm conversing in English.
And yes, it is just a common noun. D
=adley=
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Peace all,
Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.
This has already been done nearly 2-3 months back...If you check the on-line version of The Message you will see it follows the old Hafs numbering.
Why is the word jinn left untranslated ?
I recall there was an impass on which translation fits best some years back on this issue...
If you can provide the best translation for the word, it would gladly be changed in The Message as we want to avoid using Arabic words in an English translation.
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Peace,
Can anybody here who is directly involved with the Progressive Muslims organization provide myself with a list of names of the ones who are responsible for translating the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?
I did the base translation originally, then amendments/changes were continually made based on the input and suggestions of a large number of members (you can see who if you search for old posts with the title or wording
The Message. -
Peace,
just skimmed the new translation. Well, the first thing to be noticed is the difference in the introductory essays. Especially in the section where it is listed what the quran is, any reason why you took out the one that talks about revealed by a higher power?
I don`t recall this change...Do you have the original essay or reference so that I could look at it?
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Salaam Layth,
I took this from the previous version (Updated August 21st, 2005).
The numbering of ayats, of course, will be different from the current version.The Scripture and The Quran
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Some of the features of the ?Quran? have been recorded as follows- Quran can humble a mountain (5922).
- Quran cannot be replicated by men and Jinn (1789).
- Quran contains a healing for the hearts (1783).
- Quran is what the prophet?s followers have abandoned (2531).
- Quran is without doubt revealed by a higher power (277).
- Quran is to be paid attention to when read (7205).
- Quran disturbs the disbelievers with its words (1016).
- Quran gives detail to the Scripture (103.
- Quran is related to the 7 pairs (158.
- Quran creates a barrier of for those who disbelieve to understand it (1746).
- Quran alone makes the disbelievers run away in aversion (1747).
- Quran is recited at dawn (1779).
- Quran is full of examples cited for mankind (1790).
- Quran contains the ?Zikr?/Reminder (382).
- Quran disturbs the rejecters, they seek to speak over it (4126).
- Quran is to be used to warn people with (621).
- Quran has been made easy to learn (541.
- Quran is preserved in a tablet (8522-23).
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Hope that helps.
=adley=
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Salaam Wakas
I capitalize the "S" in Salaat to place emphasize on the word.
Wakas are you one of the members of the Progressive Muslims who helped translated the Qur'aan in English?
Can anybody in here provide myself with a list of names of the people who translated the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?
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Salaam Al Khidr,
I thought Layth has already answered your last question. Just check his post above. Or you can use the search feature of this forum. Just input "the message" (quotes inlcuded) and choose the General and the Projects forum. You should hit some helpful threads. Hope that helps.
=adley=
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Salaam adley
Thanks for highlighting that for me, I must of over looked it. I got a chance to read it and Layth answered my question.
Salaam Al Khidr,
I thought Layth has already answered your last question. Just check his post above. Or you can use the search feature of this forum. Just input "the message" (quotes inlcuded) and choose the General and the Projects forum. You should hit some helpful threads. Hope that helps.
=adley=
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Salaam Layth
Thanks for the response to my question. I have another question. If I'm not mistaken you and Edip worked together on his up coming translation that will be out soon, right? If so what are some of the unique differences between that translation and the Progressive Muslim translation of Qur'aan?
Peace,
Can anybody here who is directly involved with the Progressive Muslims organization provide myself with a list of names of the ones who are responsible for translating the Qur'aan for the Progressive Muslims?
I did the base translation originally, then amendments/changes were continually made based on the input and suggestions of a large number of members (you can see who if you search for old posts with the title or wording
The Message. -
Salam Khidr,
Thanks for the response to my question. I have another question. If I'm not mistaken you and Edip worked together on his up coming translation that will be out soon, right? If so what are some of the unique differences between that translation and the Progressive Muslim translation of Qur'aan?
The upcomming translation uses the last version of The Message as its
basewith some changes introduced on certain words & phrases. The key difference is the presence offootnotesand explanations (written by Edip) while The Message is just a literal translation which leaves the reader to find his/her meanings. -
Peace Layth
It would be nice if you answered my question. What is the significance of changing the translation from contact-method to bond?
Thanks Sis Elke for your reply, hopefully i could find out from him an explanation.
Peace All -
Peace,
It would be nice if you answered my question. What is the significance of changing the translation from contact-method to bond?
Sorry, I overlooked your question in my responces.
The argument put forth by Wakas is that
Salatis an ubmrella word which means different things in the context it is placed...For example
- When speaking to the Mumineen, it means the 2 unit Salat as we identify it that requires abulution, reading the Scripture specific times, etc.
- When speaking about the birds, it means their intinctive knowledge to fulfil the requirement to praise God in their own way.
- When speaking of the Mushrikeen/idolators in chapter 9, it means them fulfilling their obligations that they gave not to betray the believers and not to conspire against them.
Therefore, if we used only contact-method, then we create a dilema in the verses that are not talking about the specific Salat that is meant to be carried out by the mumineem. However, when we use the literal translaiton of
bond/link/obligationthen the reader can see the meaning being given based on the context of the verses/situation. -
Peace all,
Peace all,
Also, I think the numbering of verses should be reinstated as before. With all due respect as to how and why you have come to your conclusions on the verse numberings and order, it is still an inescapable fact that those who claim to follow the qur'an are familiar with the standard verse numbering, and thus, makes for much more conveniant referencing when having discussions with others about the qur'an and it's verses.
This has already been done nearly 2-3 months back...If you check the on-line version of The Message you will see it follows the old Hafs numbering.
Oh I see, I guess I stand corrected. -X
Salaam,
Damon. -
Peace all,
Bonds seems totally OK to me atleast better than contact- method.
Sis Maria
