Question about ..
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danish wrote
Plain silly with a thinkpad.to ur creditthat doesnt make any less sense than anything else u have said so far! -)
Talk about swindling, cheating, killing, robbing, by fradulent means and call it "negative profit/benefit".
if u rob somebody of a 100 bucks..do u stand to gain monetarily?
just answer yes or noif u are able! -)
There's no outcome without a mean. You need a resident (mean), residence (item) and residue (outcome) to understand any given situation. Can't jump to an effect without a cause and call it quits.
if u rob somebody of a 100 bucks..do u stand to gain monetarily?
just answer yes or noif u are able! -)
It has been already clarified and more so in this post. You are confused about the entire verse along with others, not just the word and can't seem to understand simple things.
if u rob somebody of a 100 bucks..do u stand to gain monetarily?
just answer yes or noif u are able! -)
gotta know if u understand that which u are trying so hard to discuss! -)
Enough elaboration is already done and more given here, yet sadistically unsatisfied.
hmmmwhining doesnt exactly count as elaborationso u need to try again! -)
Nafa IS "good".
v have seen that if a thief benefits by thieving..it is still a monetary benefit!
...so ur insistence shows no inclination towards understanding the subject matter! -)
Rubbish! Outweigh simply means outperform, outnumber, more or better than, etc.
i only pointed out that nafa need not be gooduse is better...the rest was ur own proposition! -)
dont mindbut do u read ur own post before posting? -)
A simple scenario would be a sea-saw in which a fat person would outweigh a thin person and thus rise UP
the fat person would rise up? loolz
that would be a novelty! grin
but that doesn't mean that the thin person has no weight.
.perhaps the raised up fat person would respond to that! grin
Another example would be a pool of water far outweighs a glass of water.
..so u are comparing pool of water and glass of water with ithm and nafa -S
Gee man, you really are having a hard time understanding simple things now.
yeahand like i said, if u read what u writeu will understand why!
Once again you are having trouble in understanding and making presumptuous and twisted counters.
u stated medicine, taste,.....as benefits of alochol.
and said likewise for gambling.so dunno what else remained to presume!
..stillgo ahead and elaborate how gambling is beneficial!
You need to understand the context of the entire verse in which those words speak.
so u so realise u wrongly said that I quoted half the verse..dont u?...thats a start.but an admission remains!
Alcohol is what is being discussed and the marriage part was an example. Plain and simple.
so what did u give the example for?....that too one that made no sense! -S
..trying to hard...i think! -)
I gathered that info from Santa Claus who went to Miraj on a flying reindeer and brought back some goodies to give it to ya.
so where is this miraj situated, which ur santa went to?
al-Baqarah 002219
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Asad THEY WILL ASK thee about intoxicants and games of chance. Say "In both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man; but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring." And they will ask thee as to what they should spend . Say "Whatever you can spare." In this way God makes clear unto you His messages, so that you might reflect
Clear as daylight. There are two parts concerning intoxicants and gambling the "worst part" and the "good part" theres no ifs, buts and ands.
u ll have to get back to the drawing board bro there is no good part.there is only nafa...and as shown...somebody can have a temporary monetary benefit even from thieving...all those fancy illustrations dont see to have helped u! -(
The words used for nafa are benefit, profit, utility, usefulness, gain, advantage and use (all connote the same meaning). Verses 590 and 591 support the first part in question, NOT the second, else there is major contradiction. Now, the all-deluded thegod () can dwindle, swindle and twinkle all he wants.
when u are done with rolling on the flooru might want to gather urself and make an attempt at thinking! -)
..and whining and slandering wouldnt help u in doing that! -)
CASE CLOSED.
u triedthats the important part..keep at itwho knows someday-)
and yes...again...the words which tell u that the verse has anything to do with the quantity of consumption! -)
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There is no problems with eating pork as well as far as many believe
the bottom line that it was an order from Allah to avoid Al Khamr, period,
those who want to argue can easily take their argument with them on the JD
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Ithim is Haram
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Khamr is Ithim Kabir
Therefore a child will know that from 1 & 2 above
Khamr is Haram. period
Salam
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i'd say you can eat candy or any other food with alcohol in it
as long as you don't get intoxicated.
and there's no chance of getting intoxicated when eating alcohol flavored food
but if there is a chance of getting intoxicated, like when drinking wine or hard liquor why drink it? why not just simply drink something else?there are so many other drinks out there, why would you even approach something that could get you intoxicated and that has been said to be satan's work?
sure small amounts do not harm you but in many cases it leads to big amounts, before you know it you're drunk. look at all broken families and car accidents and people losing their jobs and health... all result of alcohol consumption.
i guess for medical reasons it's okay to use alcohol if it's to help you become healthy, but other then that, i'd stay away from it.
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Salam,
I have to go with the
alcohol is permittedcamp for some obvious analysis reasons- Nowhere does God forbid alcohol outright (see pig meat, blood, etc. for comparison).
- God informs us that Salat is not to be approached while intoxiacted. This nullifies the
haramargument in its infancy. - God tells us heaven will have rivers of alcohol as well as milk and honey. This again nullifies the
haramargument as no pig or blood or any otherharamelements are made available. - The verse used most to outlaw alcohol speaks of the
deviland that he should be avoided (not the alcohol). - The
ithmargument being presented is not valid as the verse clearly says fihimaIthm( in them is Ithm) and not they are Ithm. Thus, alcohol in itself is notIthmbut may be used in a way that produces theIthm(which is in-line with the previous point that the devil uses these tools against people).
Cleary alcohol is not haram and the only restriction found in the Quran is to avoid making Salat if intoxicated. Other than that, people shoudl be careful from alcohol in general as it is a tool (as well as gambling) that the devil uses to cause people to commit Ithm/wrong.
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Peace Bro Layth
I follow your rationale until the last part. How does one "be careful" with alcohol? Please elaborate
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Salam All
I believe there are a few big sins that were not forbidden out right yet they are haram like Qawl Al Zoor for example
Just my 2 cents
I also believe that Zina was not forbidden outright yet is is a big sin, 243 does not forbid Zina outright rather it forbids that a Believer marry a Zani or a Zania
Cheers
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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~
Francis Scott Key Fitzgerald
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I like liquor - its taste and its effects - and that is just the reason why I never drink it.
Thomas Jackson
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Peace,
I follow your rationale until the last part. How does one \"be careful\" with alcohol? Please elaborate
Since we are told that it is one of the tools the devil likes to intice people through, then it follows that we should be
carefulwhen dealing with alcohol or gambling (i.e. that it can be destructive or that it can be harmful if used to exccess or used wrongly). -
I like this one
Remember "I" before "E," except in Budweiser.
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Salam,
I also believe that Zina was not forbidden outright yet is is a big sin, 243 does not forbid Zina outright rather it forbids that a Believer marry a Zani or a Zania
Actually, it is forbidden.
Zina is called a
fahishain 1732
Allfawahishare forbidden as per 6151. -
PEeace
Actually, it is forbidden.
Zina is called a
fahishain 1732
Allfawahishare forbidden as per 6151.But doesn't this parallel Sis Myr's explanation of alcohol being forbidden?
Since we are told that it is one of the tools the devil likes to intice people through, then it follows that we should be
carefulwhen dealing with alcohol or gambling (i.e. that it can be destructive or that it can be harmful if used to exccess or used wrongly).Now we get into a grey area. Which is fine because I don't believe the God wanted us to be robots. But how do we know what our "excess" level is? Does the God condone us experimenting until we figure it out? For example, a few sips for me makes me feel funny, whereas the person next to me can have a few whole drinks before he feels funny... At what point have we wronged our souls?
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Hello all,
I have to go with the
alcohol is permittedcamp for some obvious analysis reasons- Nowhere does God forbid alcohol outright (see pig meat, blood, etc. for comparison).
- God informs us that Salat is not to be approached while intoxiacted. This nullifies the
haramargument in its infancy. - God tells us heaven will have rivers of alcohol as well as milk and honey. This again nullifies the
haramargument as no pig or blood or any otherharamelements are made available. - The verse used most to outlaw alcohol speaks of the
deviland that he should be avoided (not the alcohol). - The
ithmargument being presented is not valid as the verse clearly says fihimaIthm( in them is Ithm) and not they are Ithm. Thus, alcohol in itself is notIthmbut may be used in a way that produces theIthm(which is in-line with the previous point that the devil uses these tools against people).
Cleary alcohol is not haram and the only restriction found in the Quran is to avoid making Salat if intoxicated. Other than that, people shoudl be careful from alcohol in general as it is a tool (as well as gambling) that the devil uses to cause people to commit Ithm/wrong.
Taking into consideration all of Layth's strong points mentioned above as positive and analytical, I must emphasize that the strongest and most clearest point yet, lies within the verse 2219 itself, where the disadvantage of intoxication and games of chance outweighs its advantage point in comparison. What can be more straightforward and clearer than this, yet many argue baselessly and start drivelling and twisting around.
If people are not comfortable with alcohol consumption of any sort in any way, then simply stay away from everything concerning alcohol, which would be rather difficult in the first place. And that is applicable to just about anything by reason, not treason. Those who drink excessively and thus endangering themselves and others must slow down, limit themselves and use caution. Most important factors relies upon individual's conditional and environmental preferences, such as age, health, social outfit, tolerance, allowance, etc. and above all, the law of the land. Afterall what's the point in emphasizing the use of mind, eyes and ears.
The same concept applies to driving a car for example, where people must drive within speed limits, obey state laws and use caution rather than driving irrationally and at high speeds endangering themselves and others. Invariably, it also applies to sex on similar context and all other merits where some, it not all, benefit is administered or applied. Certain notions are very basic and doesn't necessarily require use of books (especially "holy ones" to create unecessary lengthy discussions, stress and disharmony. Books are creation of men sorted by these very actions as witnessed and reasoned.
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ahmedbahgat wrote
I believe there are a few big sins that were not forbidden out right yet they are haram like Qawl Al Zoor for exampleJust my 2 cents
I also believe that Zina was not forbidden outright yet is is a big sin, 243 does not forbid Zina outright rather it forbids that a Believer marry a Zani or a Zania
i have not yet found in the quran that the human flesh has been made "haram"...giving others ideas! idea grin
however, i believe the odds are excessively against intoxicants....and i have to say it was dion's post which shed a lot of light for me in this matter! -)
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Salam.
Alcohol.
Oh My GOD!
How many times do we have to talk about this?
I mean, it's alcohol.
It costs lots of money, it stinks, it causes dizziniess, it causes car accidents, women get beaten ver yoften when alcohol is involved. My neighbor was married to a husband who was beating her always when he was drunk. She had to move to another town and divorce him in order to live a life without any pain.See, money is very hard to get. Once i get the money, AlhamdilAllah, AlhamdilAllah, i like to spend it in a way that i feel feel the consequences for a long time. See, when i wanna spend the cash and feel the consequences for a long time, i like to order the duck from Chinese restaurant because i feel good and full even the next day.
Alcohol just makes you drunk, you smell really, really bad and as a result, you end up apologizing to someone for causing something stupid, you find iout what that stupid is the next day.
Peace.
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PEace Alen
you've just perfectly explained the very verse we've been trying to understand. Alcohol leads to no good. its pretty obvious and i really doubt any non-muslim who doesn't have a verse to try and figure out would tell us otherwise. its just common fact. its just because we have this verse that makes us different that all of a sudden our senses are out the door and alcohol becomes the next best thing since american cheese...
its not forbidden as in haram but for the love of all that's holy seriously i think we can go without drinking that which you couldn't even PRAY with! and if we don't take the traditional sunni version of prayer that WOULD mean that you really can't be drunk at all.
i think if its in medicine its fine. other than that for God's sake... don't you watch the news even?
plus you're right it really does taste like as im sorry. i don't know how anyone can force themselves to have something that tastes like you just sucked a donkey's butt and then feel like sht physically. No thanks. thats just plain retarded to me. and i don't need to follow any retarded crowd.
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alcohol, heroine, and crack cocaine are the only drugs i know of, that can be produced without harsh chemical solvents that serve absolutely no good purpose at all for the human organism or mind. Alcohol is great for cleaning toilets, and that alone makes me not want to drink it. Just like i dont want to drink the stuff i actually DO clean my toilet in. Add to this, the line between "fun" and heavily intoxicated and embarrasing are so small, there is such a small window that it is next to impossible to control. You may think you control it, but trust me, you dont. You stink, and behave in a way that is inapropriate. Logic alone would keep you away from this stuff. As far as the Quran is concerned, i dont see it being made forbidden. But i do see that we shoud think about it. So rather than just saying "DONT DO IT" it says. Look at the people who drink and yourself FFS. Oh yeah, and dont talk to me when youre drunk. you stink and makes no friggin sense!
